Did I Just waste $2800?? Solaris I5

[Garage1217]

I do not think many said it was a bad unit, I definitely did not. but let me lay it down for cody...

Rather than coming on and trying to justify why you spent so much on a light and trying to bring math into it to prove others wrong which will not work out especially comparing this 48" setup cost wise to my own, Come on here and say simply "I wanted to go to led tech, I love the features, I like the look or I like XXX about it and that is why you purchased it and leave it at that.

All the other BS of justification & trying to say others just "do not get it" is a waste and not respected as I do "get it" especially when talking numbers and the mathematical side of things cost wise. I do not care what anyone does with their own money and if you love your light then right on!

The OP is obviously having byers remorse right after purchase and that is not a good thing. That alone tells me a lot like it was an impulse buy. He may love it and he may return it. Time will tell.

Have fun guys

[layer3switchguy]

Wow, gotta love the debate this started...

Are there any Solaris I4 or I5 pics we can see? The only FTS I've seen was the one Sanjay posted, and frankly I was not impressed compared to T5. In the end can this fixture provide the same amazing colors as T5 or MH? In the end, that is what it will come down to for me... (I suspect other Solaris owners feel the same way)

[Garage1217]

Pics never do any lighting justice as it all depends on the camera and how it was setup. Best thing to do is find a local store for a demo.

[GSMguy]

the colors it produces are basically white and blue nothing else, not visually at least, nothing like what a T5 setup can provide.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by taylor t
Sounds like a good personal experience to me. Thanks.

Except that almost every unit sold has had to be replaced or repaired numerous times

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by tufacody
Well I have the 72" feature. So, that would be 3 MH bulbs at least. Figure $300 bucks a year for replacement (because yes, I am anal about it and would replace after a year). In 5 years that is $1500.

Only because YOU feel you need to replace them Sanjay, JBNY and others have posted a lot of information regarding MH lamp life and the fact that you can run them for several years with a predictable loss of output that quickly levels off after a few months.

Now figure in the cost of T5 bulbs, because I would certainly want actinics for that night time glow. So in 5 years, figuring T5's need to be changed more often that halides, another 1k?

Sure, we can pile up costs with "worst case" math. Again, note that many (most) of the SOLARIS users have had to replace MANY LED modules. They cost money, they are not warranted for the life of the fixture. Have you considered THAT real world math?

How about a chiller for all the MH heat? I don't need one now, that's for sure. Another 1k?

The MH may put more heat directly into the water. But the LED fixture puts heat into the room. Not all MH users run chillers by a long shot anyway.

C'mon dude, don't tell me that a MH/T5 system is not equally or more expensive over the course of a few years. I'm not that dumb. I've run both systems and I know what it costs to run both.

It depends on if you use "solaris" math or real world math

.... anyway enjoy your light, value is what a person finds in the cost and enjoyment based on their own expectations and feelings.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by rockworm
tufacody, you are fighting losing battle. I have the solaris as well. Those that do not own a solaris form their opinions based on others opinions or science of light theory or some other reason.

There is a reason most people who own these do not write about them on these boards. It is the naysayers' comments. I find it a little funny when Solaris is mentioned, a person has to justify their purchase. I have seen Solaris tank pictures on other sites and the corals look good. That is good enough for me.

Plenty of owners do speak up. Plenty of units have been returned and plenty of very well informed people DO comment on the technology. A person does not have to own something to make educated comments about the reality of its operation. One does not have to own something to be able to inelligently comment on the remarks made by those who DO own it.

To each their own. If you like your solaris, then by all means talk it up

[tufacody]

I really don't think I'm overly justifying my purchase on the cost side of things. But consider this:

Solaris 72" = $3700

Now build a comparable MH system and consider it for a 5 year period, which is the most I hope to get out of any light. This is what I would do: (and for crying out loud, you don't HAVE to agree)

250 watt ballasts $130x3 = $390
T5 ballasts Icecap Retro $348x2 = $696
Reflectors = $100 (if you go cheap)
Timers = $50

lets say we get Ushio 250 watt bulbs and replace all three 3 times in 5 years:

ushio 250 watt $90x3=270x3= $810

And lets say we change 8 32" T5 actinics yearly:

t5 32" $15x8 32" = 120 x5 = $610

I'd say this is reasonable. Maybe some people would skip the actinics or go with only one row front and back, but this is how I would do it and how I have seen most people do 72" tanks. So, the total 5 year cost is a minimum of:

$2606.

So, the MH-T5 system is roughly $1000 less than the Solaris option.

Ok, its $1000 less. But if you do need to run a chiller because of the MH, now the MH system is perhaps more expensive. (I have no clue where the comment that the Solaris heats the room comes from - any fixture will do that. I have also found that MH raises the humidity of the room MUCH more)

Now figure in the electricity savings with the Solaris.
Now figure in the features of the Solaris.

Yes, LED's can go out after warranty, but so can anything. MH ballasts go bad, t5 ballasts go bad. I have no clue why anyone would think the LEDs would cost more to replace. When LEDs go bad it is not because the LED itself burns out, but rather the circuit controlling them is not set correctly. These circuits are discovered very quickly - as I can attest - and would be under warranty.

Well I'm sure this will spurn a new round of haters picking apart my numbers, but I'm sure this group closed their minds to it long ago anyway. Have at it.

[areze]

fwiw, 3 250w halides and 4 lengths of T5 is likely significantly higher par than the LED unit.

solaris compares very closely with MH for lumen/watt, the details here are very grey, meh.

its an option thats out there. but its not for me. not yet.

[tufacody]

again areze, you may or may not be right. It is my understanding that a whole new set of non-solaris related stats is coming out on the par comparison (i think it was done at MACNA?). All I know is that the MH system I quoted would give a comparable coverage and actinic option. My corals do well under my Solaris, so don't care to much about par. If they weren't, well I'd have the light meter out in a flash.

[areze]

there are successful tanks running under just 4 runs of T5 lighting... doesnt change that the system you laid out with 750w of halide is alot brighter. whether its nescessary or if its overkill, you would probably believe its overkill, personally thats above my paygrade.

[tufacody]

agreed. but keep in mind that visual brightness and PAR are very different. Most people keeping the solaris stick a meter under it and say holy shiznet. LED's do look darker in pictures because the light from MH floods out and enters the camera. You also have to keep in mind that when you look at a MH you are looking at all it has to offer. When you see a pic of a solaris, it may only be running at a quarter of its full efficiency.

There is a store in Tampa called the Coral Corral that is running exclusively Solaris. Highly recommend a visit if you are in that area. I was floored to find that the owner was running his day whites at 20%! He said he was bleaching with higher. I immediately turned mine down and have not noticed any ill results.

[pjf]

Owners of high-end dimmable metal halide systems pay even more for their rigs. The Sfiligoi ACLS (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/Sfiligoi/sfiligoi.htm) is a case in point. The ACLS and Solaris systems are all computer-controlled dimmable fixtures. It just happens that one system is based on LED technology and the other is based on metal halide and fluorescent technology.

$3,000+ ACLS systems have been discussed here at Reef Central. The owners are treated with awe as they post pictures of their systems. No one criticizes the extravagance, the ultraviolet rays, or the toxic mercury vapor. Rather, they are admired for their money, their taste, and the cachet of the brands they buy.

Thanks for purchasing your LED fixture. As an early adopter, you are paving the way for the rest of us.

[gcarroll]

Originally posted by tufacody
My tank is a 180. The fixture is using the legs it came with.

Cody, would you mind posting a FTS of your tank. In my experience, the Solaris was not able to cover a 24" wide tank. That was my primary gripe all along.

[layer3switchguy]

Originally posted by gcarroll
Cody, would you mind posting a FTS of your tank. In my experience, the Solaris was not able to cover a 24" wide tank. That was my primary gripe all along.

+1 I would like to see that as well...

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by pjf
Owners of high-end dimmable metal halide systems pay even more for their rigs. The Sfiligoi ACLS ([url]
$3,000+ ACLS systems have been discussed here at Reef Central. The owners are treated with awe as they post pictures of their systems. No one criticizes the extravagance, the ultraviolet rays, or the toxic mercury vapor. Rather, they are admired for their money, their taste, and the cachet of the brands they buy.

Because most of those folks don't push skewed stats about par, power saving, being green, UV radiation, mercury vapor, etc. Your bias shines right through (no pun).

[pjf]

Neither has layer3switchguy, an LED fixture buyer, who has approached us with greater humility than those who have purchased high-end MH & T5 fixtures.

And thanks to Sfiligoi, a MH & T5 manufacturer. You can see from its brochures (http://www.sfiligoi.it/files/download/GALAXY%20ING.pdf), how proudly this company is marketing its new LED fixture, the Galaxy. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

[layer3switchguy]

Folks,

Here is my thoughts as they stand at 11:16PM EST on 9/26/08.

Are there any pics out there of SPS dominate tanks under a Solaris I4 or I5 we can see and compare/contrast to T5 or MH? FTS would be preferred...

Lets put the performance numbers, PAR, energy savings, etc on hold for a second. Where are the pics? Show me the pics! The other stuff is really moot at the moment. I just want to see some mind blowing Solaris SPS tanks. Are there any?

While I certainly may need my head examined for spending $2800 for lighting, ultimately that is my choice, and my choice alone. If I can see the same level of jaw dropping color on corals as seen on T5, that will be far more compelling to me than anything else at the moment... I think many of the others would agree.... Sure, you can grow coral under this fixture, but can you smile in awe and wonder at just how amazing the reef looks, and how beautiful and wonderful this hobby can be with one? For me personally, when I see a TOTM, and just about every other pic posted on this website, that's how I feel...

[pjf]

Here is a thread with pictures about an aquarium lit by a Solaris fixture:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ostid=13394661

[Garage1217]

I took the last 5 minutes just looking at the photos and my conclusions are as follows...

The good...
- Corals look healthy / tank looks stellar

The bad...
- Light looks way to focused with massive hot spots
- Color could be much much better with t5 or MH but does look natural. No idea what it is set on color wise but not my choice.

[tufacody]

Well I'm certainly not going to argue aesthetics with anyone. Frankly I love the look of T5 - but does it look "natural" to me -- no way. I've done my share of diving and reefs are not lit up with a Las Vegas glow. (heh, I like that). But yea, the color pops like crazy. Try putting something white under a blacklight - that pops like crazy too.

I love the look of halides, no doubt about it. And if look and look alone were my only consideration, perhaps I would have gone that way on my 180. I like it fine on my 60 gallon cube, but I also know what I hate about it.

Seems like everyone here wants to "win". There is another post on this board waging war between the superiority of T5 and halides. Dudes, its just another choice. All I've tried to do is justify the purchase in terms of cost and benefit. But I'm not telling anyone to buy it because I did. I'm not telling anyone that they should like the look of it better than MH or T5. I'm also not pushing skewed stats - I didn't even mention PAR figures nor has anyone else.

You want to know about LED, I'm telling you what I know.

All else I can say is this: My tank has been up less than a year. I haven't lost a single coral, and all are growing and thriving. I don't have a dominant SPS system, but the frags I do have are doing great. I'd say visually I like it almost as much as halide but more than T5. But that's me. I wouldn't trade it for any MH system.

Later.

[tufacody]

pictures are hard garage. a simple white balance adjustment on the camera skews color. The nice thing about the solaris of course is that I can adjust color to my liking, or probably yours if you prefer I like the hot spots, as you say, but coral placement is more tedious. Reefs in the wild don't look uniform throughout in light intensity. I also prefer focus over flood, but again, that's just me

[sivert55]

AMC Gremlin. That's funny!
Those things sucked.

I think you'll be really happy with the purchase in 18-24 months when you're not paying the electricity bill on the old lights, the chiller, extra air conditioner run-time, or replacing bulbs. As long as you can get the colors you want.

[Garage1217]

I know about cameras, I posted that fact a few back Also have you been diving? Reefs are lit very evenly, light variation depends on depth & shadows created by ledges or waves, not continuous hot & dim spots.

And as I said, I saw a small model on a small tank when they first came out, not sure if they improved colors but what I saw was simply how much blue you wanted to add to the white to create an effect. I did not see the beautiful purples & other vivid color that certain mh bulbs provide & that t5's really provide well.

I liked what I saw color wise, do not get me wrong, it was decent but not what I would run on my tank. And the hot spots, I thought it was just the small fixture, but man after seeing that large light I was really dissapointed. Way to focused.

As phil said, when they get the RGB tech down to produce a more full spectrum adding in these amazing colors I desire, then I will look more into a fixture when the prices drop by at least 1/2 of the current price or more.

[pjf]

Originally posted by Sanjay
This tank here has been using the SOLARIS Leds for over a year, and is housing mixed SPS and soft corals.

I was told the corals were grown from frags over the last year.

I like to take the pictures without a flash so they do come out a litte darker that what it visually looks.

So for those of you still wondering if the LEDs are here yet... I think with this generation of Led's they are very capable of growing all kinds of coral.

We can conclude that:
(1) The tank is better lit than the pictures indicate.
(2) Corals grew extremely well in this tank.
(3) The Solaris is an older model than what layer3switchguy has ordered.
(4) Dr. Sanjay Joshi, author of Reef Lighting Pages, thinks that LEDs have indeed arrived.