ETSS Skimmer Club! - Page 16

cnaegler · 06/02/2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rigleautomotive
The pump you are driving it with is not consistent or strong enough to keep it stable.that skimmer runs great with a pressure rated pump like a iwalki 20rlt or a blue line HD20.I know the manual says they can be ran with a mag pump but they never reach full potential until you put a pressure rated pump on them

Thanks for the info. I was having the same problem with it as well. I think i'll switch to the blueline hd20...it uses 25 less watts than the mag 7 anyways. Plus i really like external pumps... they just seem more...."professional" looking. LOL.

rigleautomotive · 06/02/2009, 07:38 AM

no problem,hope it helps.mag drive pumps are like hobby grade and get weaker as time goes on along with them being inconsistent in regards with pressure.blue line,iwalki,pan world are more like industrial pumps and last for decades before getting weak and produce a more consistent pressure.i never realized the full potential of these skimmers until i used external pumps and then again when i started overdriving them

jmsalt1 · 06/02/2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rigleautomotive
The pump you are driving it with is not consistent or strong enough to keep it stable.that skimmer runs great with a pressure rated pump like a iwalki 20rlt or a blue line HD20.I know the manual says they can be ran with a mag pump but they never reach full potential until you put a pressure rated pump on them

Why would Gary who has an excellent customer service reputation suggest a pump which was not sufficient for the skimmer? Just call him if you are looking to mate the skimmer with an appropriate sump. I run a MAG 9 on the SB40 and am pretty happy with the performance but know I would probably be unhappy trying to run it with a MAG7. I agree that downdraft skimmers prefer a strong consistent pump feed.

rigleautomotive · 06/02/2009, 09:28 AM

well i picked garys brain about 12 years ago and he was the guy that had me abandon my mag pump on a ets 500 evoloution for a blue line 30HD and i never looked back.it pulls a half gallon of gunk from a 100 gallon frag system with a low bio load(3 fish and 100 frags) weekly.that skimmer could not pull a half gallon of skimate from that system in 1 year before the switch.personally i like having a pump that is over powered so i can dial it back if needed rather then one that is maxed out to just barely work with a clean skimmer and perfect conditions.again it will work with a mag like i said but its full potential will not be seen until you put a pressure rated pump on a downdraft skimmer.JMO so i am not looking for a arguement just trying to help someone who cannot get a mag pump to make there skimmer work properly.if the mag works for you and you think the skimmer cant perform any better then good luck and keep it as is

jmsalt1 · 06/02/2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rigleautomotive
well i picked garys brain about 12 years ago and he was the guy that had me abandon my mag pump on a ets 500 evoloution for a blue line 30HD and i never looked back.it pulls a half gallon of gunk from a 100 gallon frag system with a low bio load(3 fish and 100 frags) weekly.that skimmer could not pull a half gallon of skimate from that system in 1 year before the switch.personally i like having a pump that is over powered so i can dial it back if needed rather then one that is maxed out to just barely work with a clean skimmer and perfect conditions.again it will work with a mag like i said but its full potential will not be seen until you put a pressure rated pump on a downdraft skimmer.JMO so i am not looking for a argument just trying to help someone who cannot get a mag pump to make there skimmer work properly.if the mag works for you and you think the skimmer cant perform any better then good luck and keep it as is

Well, I'm not counting on luck to make my equipment work properly, just sound advice which Gary has provided in the past (we agree on that) as well as my own experience. I've never run an ETSS 500 so I can't comment on it specifically nor did I in my previous post. Definitely not looking for an argument here either but on an SB40, the MAG 9.5 has been fine for me and produces plenty of skimmate daily. Maybe Gary should revisit recommending MAG pumps on his site and in the instruction manuals if they have proven to be a problem for so many folks on some of the ETSS models over the years. He was recommending them 10+ years ago when I bought my first ETSS RD Deluxe and still does on certain models. To your point, I've had the same Iwaki pump as my circ. pump for going on 11 years. The MAG is a lesser quality pump and IME has never lasted close to this long under continuous use.

llebcire · 06/02/2009, 01:30 PM

In reading this thread I'll admit that I've always wondered if I was reaching potential with a Rio that the company claims "provide excellent performance within wet or dry filters and in venturi protein skimmers when high pressure and flow rates are needed" .

Part of my thinking is that the RD is rated for 120g and I'm running it on a lightly stocked 72 so the Rio would be adequate. Also, A.E. Tech gives the option of a Catalina 2200 with the Reef Devil Deluxe and it's similar to the high pressure Rio 2500+ that I have.

With my setup, I need an internal pump - is there anything better than a Mag for an ETSS that's submersible? If not - sounds like the 9 is better than a 7?

I also realize that you need organics for a skimmer to do anything. This tank is just 3 months old, was nearly 100% fresh water when I set it up, has a very light bio-load, and to combat an algae outbreak I've replaced 50 gallons in the last 5 weeks (initially had bad RO membrane & 87 TDS when I filled it). Consists of coral frags, a lawnmower blenny, 3" powder blue tang & 2.5" clown for a load.

Cleaned bio-balls, collection cup and riser 8 days ago and started overskimming with clear foam/water. I did shorten the feed tube 3/4" at that time for a better seal on the riser, maybe that made the difference. Wednesday I installed the valve and here are pics from today - been skimming for 6 days:

The level in the chamber for the Rio is constant & I designed it to stay @ 7" for the skimmer (1" riser under skimmer as well)

Needed to close the valve Wednesday for overskimming, by Friday it was wide open (where it is today)

I did clean everything last week, and the collection cup is already muddy

Maybe I'm expecting something different - guess it's not bad for a week and so little load.

-Eric

cnaegler · 06/02/2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by llebcire
In reading this thread I'll admit that I've always wondered if I was reaching potential with a Rio that the company claims "provide excellent performance within wet or dry filters and in venturi protein skimmers when high pressure and flow rates are needed" .

Part of my thinking is that the RD is rated for 120g and I'm running it on a lightly stocked 72 so the Rio would be adequate. Also, A.E. Tech gives the option of a Catalina 2200 with the Reef Devil Deluxe and it's similar to the high pressure Rio 2500+ that I have.

With my setup, I need an internal pump - is there anything better than a Mag for an ETSS that's submersible? If not - sounds like the 9 is better than a 7?

I also realize that you need organics for a skimmer to do anything. This tank is just 3 months old, was nearly 100% fresh water when I set it up, has a very light bio-load, and to combat an algae outbreak I've replaced 50 gallons in the last 5 weeks (initially had bad RO membrane & 87 TDS when I filled it). Consists of coral frags, a lawnmower blenny, 3" powder blue tang & 2.5" clown for a load.

Cleaned bio-balls, collection cup and riser 8 days ago and started overskimming with clear foam/water. I did shorten the feed tube 3/4" at that time for a better seal on the riser, maybe that made the difference. Wednesday I installed the valve and here are pics from today - been skimming for 6 days:

The level in the chamber for the Rio is constant & I designed it to stay @ 7" for the skimmer (1" riser under skimmer as well)

Needed to close the valve Wednesday for overskimming, by Friday it was wide open (where it is today)

I did clean everything last week, and the collection cup is already muddy

Maybe I'm expecting something different - guess it's not bad for a week and so little load.

-Eric

For mine to have that much skimmate in the cup, you wouldn't be able to see through the riser tube for the gunk built up in it. Maybe i'll fiddle a little more with it this evening.

llebcire · 06/02/2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cnaegler
For mine to have that much skimmate in the cup, you wouldn't be able to see through the riser tube for the gunk built up in it. Maybe i'll fiddle a little more with it this evening.

Craig-

I went back and assume you're talking about your RD as you have a 1000 that works great?

Can't say I'm an expert as I'm asking questions in this thread, but...

How many bioballs? I'm running the 12 they recommend, strung together w/fishing line.

Have you checked the air inlet? In my new setup, I've noticed that I get a lot of salt creep that severely limits the performance. I can tell when it stops hissing.

I also noticed a difference when I reduced the length of the feed tube - when the hose was longer, the top didn't sit quite square/slight tilt (questionable design & I've considered an O ring) and performance suffered.

If you're going to mess with it, I'd clean the bioballs, ensure they aren't packed tightly, clean the air inlet, ensure the top fits snugly, and clean both the riser and collection cup.

Let me know!

-Eric

rigleautomotive · 06/02/2009, 02:06 PM

you may not be an expert,nor do i claim to be, but that all sounds like some good recomendations.the real common problem is the air inlet being blocked with salt creep and secondly the balls being packed too tight.changing the balls with new ones(not just cleaned)always make my skimmers work great and i do it every 6 months or so.as far as a better pump for yours,the mag 9.5 would work but i feel it wont be a worth wild upgrade.unless you go to a external pressure rated pump you may not realize any large benefits

cnaegler · 06/02/2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by llebcire
Craig-

I went back and assume you're talking about your RD as you have a 1000 that works great?

Can't say I'm an expert as I'm asking questions in this thread, but...

How many bioballs? I'm running the 12 they recommend, strung together w/fishing line.

Have you checked the air inlet? In my new setup, I've noticed that I get a lot of salt creep that severely limits the performance. I can tell when it stops hissing.

I also noticed a difference when I reduced the length of the feed tube - when the hose was longer, the top didn't sit quite square/slight tilt (questionable design & I've considered an O ring) and performance suffered.

If you're going to mess with it, I'd clean the bioballs, ensure they aren't packed tightly, clean the air inlet, ensure the top fits snugly, and clean both the riser and collection cup.

Let me know!

-Eric

Eric,
Yep, i'm refering to the RD. My 1000 is on my 180 out in my "fish" building. out behind the house. I have about four feet of hose connected to the input from the sump. I can't fit the skimmer in- sump, unfortunately, mag 7 and phosban reactor in the way, so i have it sitting on a five gallon bucket next to the tank ( I HATE this setup). If i ran an external pump and moved the phosban reactor to a different compartmet, i think i could squeeze it in there. I'll take a picture and post it, let ya'll see what's going on. Back in a few.

llebcire · 06/09/2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cnaegler
Eric,
Yep, i'm refering to the RD. My 1000 is on my 180 out in my "fish" building. out behind the house. I have about four feet of hose connected to the input from the sump. I can't fit the skimmer in- sump, unfortunately, mag 7 and phosban reactor in the way, so i have it sitting on a five gallon bucket next to the tank ( I HATE this setup). If i ran an external pump and moved the phosban reactor to a different compartmet, i think i could squeeze it in there. I'll take a picture and post it, let ya'll see what's going on. Back in a few.

Craig-

Curious as to what you meant by "back in a few"...minutes? Hours? Days? Let's not make it weeks as I'm curious as to what you found! Just kidding.

I think I found something tonight that would explain what's been plaguing my skimmer - bioballs are packing themselves too tightly over time.

Since I cleaned everything and had to add the valve 2 weeks ago, I've noticed the need to keep adjusting the skimmer for output. First, I opened the valve completely (same one that kept it from overskimming/overflowing @ first), then I've had to slowly adjust the output.

Tonight, I pulled the air inlet tube off to check the "hissing" and it was very quiet. Took the air inlet out - no salt creep. Gently lifted the cap and gave the fishing line a slight tug and voila - started foaming and hissing like crazy! I'm now back to the pump dialed down and the skimmer output completely open with great foam.

It would appear that the bioballs are packing themselves into the riser and diminishing the foam after a few weeks, which is the same symptom that Craig is experiencing.

Bioballs are very clean, like new, and I am running 12. Should I run less? Anyone else experience this?

-Eric

llebcire · 06/09/2009, 10:09 PM

From here:
http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/skimmer-ets.html#0

Very long - sorry for the size but thought I should post the entire write up. Especially like the description of the skimmer as "a Brute Force design. A phenomenal amount of air is mixed into the water, and that mixing is done with considerable force and violence"...

[M][R] Description of a Novel Skimmer Design (Long)
by cb77-at-inibara.cc.columbia.edu (Craig Bingman)
Date: 20 Feb 1995
Newsgroup: sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
The ETS Foam Fractionator

I mentioned here some time ago that I had seen a foam
fractionator of a novel design, and one that caused me to
reevaluate my paradigm of what is important for a foam fractionator
to function optimally. I typically don't initiate threads here,
but I'll break from my usual pattern of simply answering questions
with a description of this skimmer, its principles of design and
operation, and take my first cut at explaining why it achieves the
remarkable results that it does.

The design is unconventional, and it is actually derived from a
device that was supposed to strip ammonia directly from the water.
The old timers here will remember the claims made several years ago
that trickle filters removed ammonia directly from the water by
outgassing. This was tested, and for freshwater systems, trickle
filters just don't cut it, it takes a lot more than water gently
flowing over some DLS to cause ammonia loss to the air, especially
when the ammonia is almost 100% ammonium ions. Ammonia
fractionation towers can be made to work, they just have to be
about 20 feet tall and have throughput like Niagara falls, and they
work best at high pH. Gary was trying to build a home version of
an ammonia stripping tower for marine aquaria, and noticed that it
produced a lot of foam. The notion that this side effect might be
exploited was the first step in the development of the ETS skimmer.

The unit works by a novel "downdraft" design, where the output from
a high volume, high pressure water pump over a 5+' acrylic tower
filled with bioballs. Anyone who has stood next to a waterfall
appreciates that the water carries a substantial downdraft of air
with it, and this is how the air is introduced into the bioball
tower. There is no venturi valve or air pump associated with it,
the water drags the air into the bioball tower. There is
something like a high pressure water "gun" at the top of the tower,
it narrows down to maybe a quarter inch outlet in some designs.
The water emerges from this "gun" with substantial pressure and
muzzle velocity. When it hits the bioballs, it starts breaking up
into a mixture of water and air bubbles. By the time the water is
a foot or so down the column, the bubbles are becoming very fine,
and this fast moving froth continues down a tortuous path through
the bioballs, mixing and remixing the water with the air, keeping
the bubbles very fine.

The output of the bioball tower then goes into a rectangular tank,
where the process of separating air from water begins. There are
some tricky baffles in that box that I don't fully understand, it
is a bit difficult to see exactly what is there when the skimmer is
in operation, and I've never had occasion to look at one when it
was dry. This seems to be the subtle part of the design, in my
estimation, and I'm told that relatively small changes in the
layout of this component change the results substantially.

In any event, the foam emerges from this chamber into the foam
riser. It is of large diameter acrylic tubing (in the 6-8" range)
and is about 24" tall. In all of the operational skimmers I have
seen, the foam riser has been about 3/4 full of foam, of which the
top 12 inches are very dry, thick foam. The neck of the riser has
a substantial ID, according to Sprung and Delbeek's book,
relatively large OD tubing at this point gives the best results.

I first saw the design at Westchester Pet center, where it was
being tested on the tropical marine fish section. This prototype
was huge, and it had an impressive head of foam on it. The next
time I saw it was at the same store, this time on the reef aquaria.
Tony Vargas (co-proprietor at the time) and I were having a chat
about the skimmer, what do you make of it, that sort of thing.
There was some sentiment that it might be a superior design, and
being my usual "self" suggested that there were few ways of
quantifying skimmer performance (there isn't a foam fractionator
equivalent of an iodine or molasses number as there is for
activated carbon.) So I opined that the only way to straighten
this out was to run two skimmers against each other on the same
system. If one was markedly better than the other, it would then
be apparent in the quantity and quality of skimmate from each. It
also takes out variations in the organic load, presence of anti-
foaming surfactants (stick your hands in your aquarium and see what
happens to your skimmer) and other confounding and difficult to
control effects.

I was surprised (and pleased) that such tests were actually
conducted, and the ETS was tested against several other skimmers,
including a very upscale, well respected, professionally
constructed and designed $700 venturi unit which was previously on
top of my "if I had the money" list of skimmers. All the skimmers
against which the ETS was run were effectively "shut down" meaning
that they were not able to make enough of a foam head to produce
skimmate. This was a substantially more "black and white" result
than I had expected, and in my opinion the only reasonable
interpretation of this is that the dissolved organic concentration
in the water had been reduced by the ETS so far that the other
skimmers failed. The bubbles in the units being run against the
ETS were not very persistent at the surface of the water, actually
it looked more like what I expect to see when fine air bubbles are
blown through fresh water. However, the ETS was maintaining an
approximately 18" head of foam, and actively producing a dark,
quality skimmate.

Why does it work as well as it does? Well, my best answer is that
it is a Brute Force design. A phenomenal amount of air is mixed
into the water, and that mixing is done with considerable force and
violence. This is unlike most venturi designs, where there is
substantial turbulence as the air/water mixture leaves the venturi,
but then goes into a relatively quiet fractionation column. CC
units also tend to be quiescent. While this should theoretically
allow concentration gradients to be set up in the skimmer, in
practice, both venturi and airstone driven CC units are limited in
the amount of air they mix with the water. Because air only rises
so fast through the countercurrent section of the skimmer, they are
also restricted as to how much water one can put through them, and
they are also limited in the amount of shear they deliver to the
solution. Mixing is sufficiently violent inside the bioball-filled
column of the ETS skimmer that it is plausible that proteins in the
water are being denatured and rendered into a more skimmable state.
Other molecular aggregates may similarly be broken up and find
their way to the air/water interface. There is simply no way that
the skimming process is diffusion limited in the ETS. All of that
water and whatever is dissolved in it is being intimately mingled
with the air/water interfaces as the water passes through the
bioball column.

Probably the concentration gradients which are essential for foam
fractionation are set up in the foam riser. There is about 18"
of foam in the riser, and this prodigious column of foam is
probably protecting itself from turbulence and draining
quiescently. When I looked at it, it seemed that turbulence was
damping out to essentially nothing before the dry foam layer was
reached. There is a LOT of air moving though this skimmer, and
it embodies a unique mixture of brute force and grace, from the
violent mixing tube to the draining foam in the riser.

I've seen the skimmer in operation six times now, and was present
for some of the testing (not all of it.) So I am relying on
individuals who I feel are reputable sources for a description of
the rest of the testing, and their notes of what has happened in
their systems.

What else does it do besides act as a foam fractionator?

Well, all of the effects that I am describing below are attributes
of all foam fractionators to some extent, this design just seems to
have More of them because it is a very high throughput system.

1. In all cases that I am aware of, there was a substantial
increase in redox potential (~50 mV) of the water. Note that this
was observed on functioning reef aquaria that would have been
considered well skimmed and well maintained by anyone. Part of
the increase in ORP is probably due to enhanced oxygen saturation,
part of it is no doubt because this is an excellent skimmer, and
organics are removed efficiently.

2. Gas exchange in general seems to be improved, and this also
manifests itself in enhanced pH stability. Large reef aquariums
with high intensity illumination and even moderate bioloads have a
tendency to be a bit "strangled" when it comes to either picking up
or losing CO2 to the atmosphere. The higher the throughput of the
skimmer (air and water volume) the more this situation is going to
be improved. The ETS directly helps pH stability in this way.

3. The air flow increases the evaporation from the aquarium, and
that allows one to add more limewater. Also, and this is very
important, since the water is in better contact with the
atmospheric reserve of CO2, one is less likely to get into the
regime where calcium and alkalinity are being lost from the system
(which can occur when the pH of the aquarium is very high, the most
dangerous time is toward the end of the photoperiod.) For all the
aquaria running this skimmer about which I have inquired, the
alkalinity has improved. Good gas exchange is crucial for
limewater to be effectively used as a source of calcium and
alkalinity replenishment. By promoting excellent gas exchange and
increased evaporation the ETS promotes enhanced stability in
soluble calcium and alkalinity.

4. Some have indicated that the concentrations of problematic
inorganics have also decreased. An indirect mechanism is called
for to explain this, as nitrate and inorganic phosphate are not
directly skimmable. Terry Siegel is reporting decreases in both
on his "new" system, which is a converted fish aquarium, and this
observation may be explained by a couple of effects, all of which
are indirect.

A. Nitrate and inorganic phosphate are often derived from
organic precursors (nitrogen in uneaten food, organic phosphates)
and based on reasons given above, this skimmer is probably doing a
better job of intercepting organics before they are mineralized
than anything I've previously seen.

B. Skimmers are pretty damned good mechanical filters, they
take a lot of particulates out of the water. Those particulates
may be bacteria, phytoplankton, or organic debris. All of them are
going to contain some phosphate and organic nitrogen.

C. Additionally, because the amount of limewater that may be
added is increased, one may get more inorganic precipitation of
phosphate, and perhaps removal of this from the system in
particulate form.

It should be remembered that this report is from a converted fish
to reef aquarium, a lot of changes were made at the same time, the
most prominent being the replacement of a very good venturi skimmer
with the ETS, the addition of high intensity lighting (which will
tend to promote algal growth and uptake of both nitrate and
phosphate from the system) and the addition of limewater.

If anyone cares to dismiss the reduction in inorganic pollutants out
of hand because they are not directly removed by the foam fractionation
process, I invite them to disconnect their skimmer for an extended
period of time and report what happens to the concentration of inorganic
pollutants. They will go up. It isn't necessarily a one way street,
if you reconnect your skimmer they will probably go down to some extent,
as sources of these nutrients are intercepted before mineralization,
and nutrients incorporated from that existing soluble pool are utilized,
converted into organic form and rendered eligible for removal by a foam
fractionator.

5. Most of the people who have these skimmers so far have felt
more at ease with feeding the inhabitants more than previously, so
there should be benefits to the organisms from this as well.

Again, all foam fractionators contribute to the above effects.
This skimmer is higher performance, so it just gives more of these
benefits than is typical.

What are the other considerations related to this skimmer?

Well, you need a competent water pump to drive any ETS, and a mail-
order little giant pump with enough "humph" to drive the smallest
will set you back another hundred dollars or so, more if you decide
to go with an Iwaki pump. There will be some incremental heat load
on the system because of this. It will probably be offset to some
extent by increased evaporation. The need for a strong water pump
is shared with venturi skimmers as well, so this is hardly a unique
consideration. You will be getting a slightly higher power bill
as well. Again, not a unique disadvantage.

Everyone's first concern about the skimmer is "do the bioballs
cause nitrate to accumulate in the system?" "Do they become
colonized by nitrifying bacteria?" The flow is really
exceptionally fast and turbulent throughout the bioball section of
this skimmer, and I think the bacteria are going to need mountain
climber's gear to hang onto the bioballs. No one has reported an
increase in nitrate concentration on any system which is running an
ETS, and I have asked very pointed questions to both system owners
and the designer on this topic. I will pass along any reports of
problems along this line.

The skimmer apparently "glitches" in the beginning. It doesn't do
much for a couple of days, but when it starts producing foam:
Watch Out. People have found a few gallons of water on their
floor. After that, it seems quite stable. The present version of
the skimmer will has an optional collection chamber with a floating
check valve which will block the formation of additional skimmate,
preventing overflows. Something along these lines is a good option
for any skimmer. For your peace of mind, your carpet, and your
marriage, it is probably a wise to get this. Why doesn't it skim
for a day or so after it is installed? Who knows? Probably
because the plastic surfaces in the skimmer need to be primed with
organics before it starts to work.

Earlier designs returned a small amount of fine air bubbles to the
system, for this reason, most people are running them out of their
sumps. This problem may have been solved, I saw prototypes. A few
bubbles in the sump aren't a big aesthetic issue, and in any event,
there wasn't a problematic amount of air being returned. It isn't
going to generate noticeable salt spray.

There are two possible adjustments on the skimmer, one of which is
its height relative to the sump. The second is a water valve that
you may choose to supply yourself to control the amount of water
going through the skimmer, although most people are running the
correctly sized pumps wide open. I don't think it is a good idea
to tee off an existing pump to feed the skimmer, and most people
don't have enough reserve pumping capacity to make that practical.
In practice, this skimmer seems to require a dedicated, correctly
sized pump.

All of the units I have seen so far were plumbed into the system
with flexible (large ID) tubing. This preserves flexibility in
height adjustment, and you can keep the turns sweeping and low
resistance with flexible tubing, if you do it correctly. As with
anything you plumb into your system, you need to do it correctly,
with an eye to reducing the possibility of various failure modes.
The unit can handle a lot of flow, indeed, up to its design limit,
the skimmer works better with increasing water flow. You generally
don't want to lose flow or pressure before the water hits the gun
at the top of the tower.

The ETS will not fit under the cabinet of Anyone's aquarium. And
you will probably need to feather the height of the skimmer
relative to your sump to get optimal results. Given the amount of
time people devote to tuning their skimmers, the initial height
adjustment doesn't seem like a major drawback to this design.

I've recently spoken with Tony Vargas, who is marketing the skimmer
for Gary Loehr, the inventor. They now seem satisfied with the
results of the testing and are now ready to distribute the product.
The phone number for inquiries is (914) 654-8002, if he is not
there, there is a combination answering machine/fax on the line.
There are to be exclusive licenses granted to about five stores in
five states on the east coast. In other states, skimmers will be
mailed out directly by Tony. Pricing and some product literature
is now available. The "owner's manual" is being written by Terry
Siegel. Terry is now running ETS skimmers on two of his large reef
aquaria, and is presently looking to replace his last remaining
venturi unit with a third ETS.

Greg Schiemer was also closely involved in the testing and
evaluation of these skimmers, and his review of this product will
appear in the next issue of Aquarium Frontiers. I have a great
respect for Greg's skills as an aquarist, having seen his aquaria
now on three occasions, it is clear that he is extraordinarily
successful with these systems. Greg's most recent articles include
a piece on herbivorous hermit crabs and a review of calcium test
kits in Aquarium Frontiers.

The skimmer doesn't look like anything else I've seen before, and
it disrupted some of my cherished ideas of what is truly important
for foam fractionation. However, I am only too happy to see
paradigms overturned (even when they are mine) if the result is a
superior aquarium environment. Based on what I have seen, the ETS
skimmer is an example of such a paradigm overturning invention.

There is a patent pending on this design. It is well constructed
from cast cell acrylic, the seams look strong, and attention has
been paid in the design to convenient maintenance (there are
flanges in the right places.) The construction quality is on par
with the very best commercially available units (for example, the
MTC venturi skimmers) and is far, far better executed than most.

If you are considering the purchase of a quality skimmer, either
for a new system or to upgrade your existing one, I urge you to at
least investigate the ETS, and wish you and your corals only the
best fortune with whatever design you chose.

Craig Bingman

**************************************************

-Eric

Peter Eichler · 06/10/2009, 12:33 AM

I've got an Evo 500 in great shape for sale if anyone is interested...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1648090

cnaegler · 06/10/2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by llebcire
Craig-

I went back and assume you're talking about your RD as you have a 1000 that works great?

Can't say I'm an expert as I'm asking questions in this thread, but...

How many bioballs? I'm running the 12 they recommend, strung together w/fishing line.

Have you checked the air inlet? In my new setup, I've noticed that I get a lot of salt creep that severely limits the performance. I can tell when it stops hissing.

I also noticed a difference when I reduced the length of the feed tube - when the hose was longer, the top didn't sit quite square/slight tilt (questionable design & I've considered an O ring) and performance suffered.

If you're going to mess with it, I'd clean the bioballs, ensure they aren't packed tightly, clean the air inlet, ensure the top fits snugly, and clean both the riser and collection cup.

Let me know!

-Eric

Sorry about that! LOL! My kids got me distracted and i forgot to get a picture. I'm headed out of town for a couple of days but i'll get one up when i get back.

llebcire · 06/10/2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cnaegler
Sorry about that! LOL! My kids got me distracted and i forgot to get a picture. I'm headed out of town for a couple of days but i'll get one up when i get back.

Did you read my post before the long essay on the ETS regarding a problem that I found with the bioballs?

Also - even without pics, are you getting better production of skimmate?

-Eric

stony_corals · 06/10/2009, 10:51 AM

Do any of you use the bigger models 800+ in a heavily used room? Other than the hum from the pump, it is simple to make them relatively quiet? I am planning on using a 900 on a 150 starfire setup, rather than a BK mini 200 (gen1), as the 900 easily blows the BK mini away... Just not sure I want a ton of noise

I ran the 900 on a frag system that was a little bigger, and was amazed at the performance.

rigleautomotive · 06/10/2009, 11:34 AM

really not noisier then the fans i use to cool my hood IMO

rigleautomotive · 06/10/2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by llebcire
Craig-

Curious as to what you meant by "back in a few"...minutes? Hours? Days? Let's not make it weeks as I'm curious as to what you found! Just kidding.

I think I found something tonight that would explain what's been plaguing my skimmer - bioballs are packing themselves too tightly over time.

Since I cleaned everything and had to add the valve 2 weeks ago, I've noticed the need to keep adjusting the skimmer for output. First, I opened the valve completely (same one that kept it from overskimming/overflowing @ first), then I've had to slowly adjust the output.

Tonight, I pulled the air inlet tube off to check the "hissing" and it was very quiet. Took the air inlet out - no salt creep. Gently lifted the cap and gave the fishing line a slight tug and voila - started foaming and hissing like crazy! I'm now back to the pump dialed down and the skimmer output completely open with great foam.

It would appear that the bioballs are packing themselves into the riser and diminishing the foam after a few weeks, which is the same symptom that Craig is experiencing.

Bioballs are very clean, like new, and I am running 12. Should I run less? Anyone else experience this?

-Eric

I would try new balls,(not used ones) and the correct ones even if you need to get them from AE Tech.Some of the balls out there are not made very well and jam up more easily and new ones always turn my skimmers into beasts

ostrow · 06/10/2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stony_corals
Do any of you use the bigger models 800+ in a heavily used room? Other than the hum from the pump, it is simple to make them relatively quiet? I am planning on using a 900 on a 150 starfire setup, rather than a BK mini 200 (gen1), as the 900 easily blows the BK mini away... Just not sure I want a ton of noise I ran the 900 on a frag system that was a little bigger, and was amazed at the performance.

That 5' tower plus the pump plus the air ... I would expect it to be more noise in a living room environment than I could tolerate.

cnaegler · 06/11/2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by llebcire
Did you read my post before the long essay on the ETS regarding a problem that I found with the bioballs?

Also - even without pics, are you getting better production of skimmate?

-Eric

I'm gonna check them right after i check my e-mails.

cnaegler · 06/11/2009, 07:25 PM

OK..i took out my mini bio- balls and counted and cleaned them...i've got 13. So i put them back with only 12 and i'm gonna wait and see what that does.

llebcire · 06/16/2009, 09:20 AM

Weird...got an e-mail that a new post was added here today @ 8:55 am (Central time/my timezone).

Anyway...I'm finding the issue with my skimmer is the bioballs. I have more of a different type that I will try (not looking to spend $10 when I only need 12 from ETSS) and I'm also going to tie them together with more spacing in an attempt to keep them separated. If I give a tug to the fishing line, separating them, it skims like crazy.

In the meantime, I had a powerhead drop in the middle of the night so I have the remnents of a sand storm to deal with, which will entail cleaning the skimmer/powerheads/return pump/etc.

Yay!

-Eric

llebcire · 06/23/2009, 08:45 AM

Think I'm making some progress, and it seems to be related to the bioballs settling in/packing too tightly and limiting foam production.

Pictures are after one week of production...after some aquascaping I had a powerhead fall in the middle of the night and create quite a sandstorm - last Tuesday I cleaned all the powerhead, pumps and the skimmer.

The bioballs are connected with fishing line so I can easily remove them, there's a rubber gasket on the end of the line for weight and a handle, and I've found that if I keep the line taught (wrapped around drain in collection cup) I get great foam production. It's been one week and I still can't open the valve completely from the pump which tells me I'm on the right track. Before, I would need to limit the flow initially, and apparently the bioballs would get packed within a couple of days and I would need to keep adjust for output.

-Eric

furman589 · 06/23/2009, 02:28 PM

I am the new owner of 600xr professional.... and all I can say is WOW. I have it paired up with a blueline 40 hd and it creates a huge head of foam. I was skeptical at first with the price of this skimmer but so far I am very very impressed. I will see how it performs in the next few weeks but i doubt ill be disappointed. Will post pics soon

todd williams · 06/23/2009, 03:04 PM

I had a evolution 500 or what it was called when I bought it. It ran flawlessly on my 90 gallon for about 10yrs. I really thought it did a great job for me over its life. I only changed the bio balls every couple of years and gave it periodic soaks in vinegar to clean it. Simple design, easy to maintain and it worked. What else can you say? It still looks good even after years of use. When I set up my new 200 gallon I switched to a Bubble King. I think it is even better but then again you are comparing apples an oranges.

06/02/2009, 07:38 AM	#377
rigleautomotive Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,705	no problem,hope it helps.mag drive pumps are like hobby grade and get weaker as time goes on along with them being inconsistent in regards with pressure.blue line,iwalki,pan world are more like industrial pumps and last for decades before getting weak and produce a more consistent pressure.i never realized the full potential of these skimmers until i used external pumps and then again when i started overdriving them __________________ Dan Rigle President, * Reef Conservation Society TOTM December 2010 Coral Magazine Sept/Oct 2012 Current Tank Info: 180 gal SPS dominated display, 3 X 250 watt Radiums , lumenarc III minis , with VHO actinics, ETS downdraft skimmers, closed loops and 2 Tunze 6105 & 7095 controller,DIY calcium reactors DIY custom built sumps,since 1992

06/02/2009, 09:28 AM	#379
rigleautomotive Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,705	well i picked garys brain about 12 years ago and he was the guy that had me abandon my mag pump on a ets 500 evoloution for a blue line 30HD and i never looked back.it pulls a half gallon of gunk from a 100 gallon frag system with a low bio load(3 fish and 100 frags) weekly.that skimmer could not pull a half gallon of skimate from that system in 1 year before the switch.personally i like having a pump that is over powered so i can dial it back if needed rather then one that is maxed out to just barely work with a clean skimmer and perfect conditions.again it will work with a mag like i said but its full potential will not be seen until you put a pressure rated pump on a downdraft skimmer.JMO so i am not looking for a arguement just trying to help someone who cannot get a mag pump to make there skimmer work properly.if the mag works for you and you think the skimmer cant perform any better then good luck and keep it as is __________________ Dan Rigle President, * Reef Conservation Society TOTM December 2010 Coral Magazine Sept/Oct 2012 Current Tank Info: 180 gal SPS dominated display, 3 X 250 watt Radiums , lumenarc III minis , with VHO actinics, ETS downdraft skimmers, closed loops and 2 Tunze 6105 & 7095 controller,DIY calcium reactors DIY custom built sumps,since 1992

06/02/2009, 02:06 PM	#384
rigleautomotive Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,705	you may not be an expert,nor do i claim to be, but that all sounds like some good recomendations.the real common problem is the air inlet being blocked with salt creep and secondly the balls being packed too tight.changing the balls with new ones(not just cleaned)always make my skimmers work great and i do it every 6 months or so.as far as a better pump for yours,the mag 9.5 would work but i feel it wont be a worth wild upgrade.unless you go to a external pressure rated pump you may not realize any large benefits __________________ Dan Rigle President, * Reef Conservation Society TOTM December 2010 Coral Magazine Sept/Oct 2012 Current Tank Info: 180 gal SPS dominated display, 3 X 250 watt Radiums , lumenarc III minis , with VHO actinics, ETS downdraft skimmers, closed loops and 2 Tunze 6105 & 7095 controller,DIY calcium reactors DIY custom built sumps,since 1992

06/09/2009, 10:09 PM	#387
llebcire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,210	The ETS Foam Fractionator - 1995 Review - Nostalgic! From here: http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/skimmer-ets.html#0 Very long - sorry for the size but thought I should post the entire write up. Especially like the description of the skimmer as "a Brute Force design. A phenomenal amount of air is mixed into the water, and that mixing is done with considerable force and violence"... [M][R] Description of a Novel Skimmer Design (Long) by cb77-at-inibara.cc.columbia.edu (Craig Bingman) Date: 20 Feb 1995 Newsgroup: sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria The ETS Foam Fractionator I mentioned here some time ago that I had seen a foam fractionator of a novel design, and one that caused me to reevaluate my paradigm of what is important for a foam fractionator to function optimally. I typically don't initiate threads here, but I'll break from my usual pattern of simply answering questions with a description of this skimmer, its principles of design and operation, and take my first cut at explaining why it achieves the remarkable results that it does. The design is unconventional, and it is actually derived from a device that was supposed to strip ammonia directly from the water. The old timers here will remember the claims made several years ago that trickle filters removed ammonia directly from the water by outgassing. This was tested, and for freshwater systems, trickle filters just don't cut it, it takes a lot more than water gently flowing over some DLS to cause ammonia loss to the air, especially when the ammonia is almost 100% ammonium ions. Ammonia fractionation towers can be made to work, they just have to be about 20 feet tall and have throughput like Niagara falls, and they work best at high pH. Gary was trying to build a home version of an ammonia stripping tower for marine aquaria, and noticed that it produced a lot of foam. The notion that this side effect might be exploited was the first step in the development of the ETS skimmer. The unit works by a novel "downdraft" design, where the output from a high volume, high pressure water pump over a 5+' acrylic tower filled with bioballs. Anyone who has stood next to a waterfall appreciates that the water carries a substantial downdraft of air with it, and this is how the air is introduced into the bioball tower. There is no venturi valve or air pump associated with it, the water drags the air into the bioball tower. There is something like a high pressure water "gun" at the top of the tower, it narrows down to maybe a quarter inch outlet in some designs. The water emerges from this "gun" with substantial pressure and muzzle velocity. When it hits the bioballs, it starts breaking up into a mixture of water and air bubbles. By the time the water is a foot or so down the column, the bubbles are becoming very fine, and this fast moving froth continues down a tortuous path through the bioballs, mixing and remixing the water with the air, keeping the bubbles very fine. The output of the bioball tower then goes into a rectangular tank, where the process of separating air from water begins. There are some tricky baffles in that box that I don't fully understand, it is a bit difficult to see exactly what is there when the skimmer is in operation, and I've never had occasion to look at one when it was dry. This seems to be the subtle part of the design, in my estimation, and I'm told that relatively small changes in the layout of this component change the results substantially. In any event, the foam emerges from this chamber into the foam riser. It is of large diameter acrylic tubing (in the 6-8" range) and is about 24" tall. In all of the operational skimmers I have seen, the foam riser has been about 3/4 full of foam, of which the top 12 inches are very dry, thick foam. The neck of the riser has a substantial ID, according to Sprung and Delbeek's book, relatively large OD tubing at this point gives the best results. I first saw the design at Westchester Pet center, where it was being tested on the tropical marine fish section. This prototype was huge, and it had an impressive head of foam on it. The next time I saw it was at the same store, this time on the reef aquaria. Tony Vargas (co-proprietor at the time) and I were having a chat about the skimmer, what do you make of it, that sort of thing. There was some sentiment that it might be a superior design, and being my usual "self" suggested that there were few ways of quantifying skimmer performance (there isn't a foam fractionator equivalent of an iodine or molasses number as there is for activated carbon.) So I opined that the only way to straighten this out was to run two skimmers against each other on the same system. If one was markedly better than the other, it would then be apparent in the quantity and quality of skimmate from each. It also takes out variations in the organic load, presence of anti- foaming surfactants (stick your hands in your aquarium and see what happens to your skimmer) and other confounding and difficult to control effects. I was surprised (and pleased) that such tests were actually conducted, and the ETS was tested against several other skimmers, including a very upscale, well respected, professionally constructed and designed $700 venturi unit which was previously on top of my "if I had the money" list of skimmers. All the skimmers against which the ETS was run were effectively "shut down" meaning that they were not able to make enough of a foam head to produce skimmate. This was a substantially more "black and white" result than I had expected, and in my opinion the only reasonable interpretation of this is that the dissolved organic concentration in the water had been reduced by the ETS so far that the other skimmers failed. The bubbles in the units being run against the ETS were not very persistent at the surface of the water, actually it looked more like what I expect to see when fine air bubbles are blown through fresh water. However, the ETS was maintaining an approximately 18" head of foam, and actively producing a dark, quality skimmate. Why does it work as well as it does? Well, my best answer is that it is a Brute Force design. A phenomenal amount of air is mixed into the water, and that mixing is done with considerable force and violence. This is unlike most venturi designs, where there is substantial turbulence as the air/water mixture leaves the venturi, but then goes into a relatively quiet fractionation column. CC units also tend to be quiescent. While this should theoretically allow concentration gradients to be set up in the skimmer, in practice, both venturi and airstone driven CC units are limited in the amount of air they mix with the water. Because air only rises so fast through the countercurrent section of the skimmer, they are also restricted as to how much water one can put through them, and they are also limited in the amount of shear they deliver to the solution. Mixing is sufficiently violent inside the bioball-filled column of the ETS skimmer that it is plausible that proteins in the water are being denatured and rendered into a more skimmable state. Other molecular aggregates may similarly be broken up and find their way to the air/water interface. There is simply no way that the skimming process is diffusion limited in the ETS. All of that water and whatever is dissolved in it is being intimately mingled with the air/water interfaces as the water passes through the bioball column. Probably the concentration gradients which are essential for foam fractionation are set up in the foam riser. There is about 18" of foam in the riser, and this prodigious column of foam is probably protecting itself from turbulence and draining quiescently. When I looked at it, it seemed that turbulence was damping out to essentially nothing before the dry foam layer was reached. There is a LOT of air moving though this skimmer, and it embodies a unique mixture of brute force and grace, from the violent mixing tube to the draining foam in the riser. I've seen the skimmer in operation six times now, and was present for some of the testing (not all of it.) So I am relying on individuals who I feel are reputable sources for a description of the rest of the testing, and their notes of what has happened in their systems. What else does it do besides act as a foam fractionator? Well, all of the effects that I am describing below are attributes of all foam fractionators to some extent, this design just seems to have More of them because it is a very high throughput system. 1. In all cases that I am aware of, there was a substantial increase in redox potential (~50 mV) of the water. Note that this was observed on functioning reef aquaria that would have been considered well skimmed and well maintained by anyone. Part of the increase in ORP is probably due to enhanced oxygen saturation, part of it is no doubt because this is an excellent skimmer, and organics are removed efficiently. 2. Gas exchange in general seems to be improved, and this also manifests itself in enhanced pH stability. Large reef aquariums with high intensity illumination and even moderate bioloads have a tendency to be a bit "strangled" when it comes to either picking up or losing CO2 to the atmosphere. The higher the throughput of the skimmer (air and water volume) the more this situation is going to be improved. The ETS directly helps pH stability in this way. 3. The air flow increases the evaporation from the aquarium, and that allows one to add more limewater. Also, and this is very important, since the water is in better contact with the atmospheric reserve of CO2, one is less likely to get into the regime where calcium and alkalinity are being lost from the system (which can occur when the pH of the aquarium is very high, the most dangerous time is toward the end of the photoperiod.) For all the aquaria running this skimmer about which I have inquired, the alkalinity has improved. Good gas exchange is crucial for limewater to be effectively used as a source of calcium and alkalinity replenishment. By promoting excellent gas exchange and increased evaporation the ETS promotes enhanced stability in soluble calcium and alkalinity. 4. Some have indicated that the concentrations of problematic inorganics have also decreased. An indirect mechanism is called for to explain this, as nitrate and inorganic phosphate are not directly skimmable. Terry Siegel is reporting decreases in both on his "new" system, which is a converted fish aquarium, and this observation may be explained by a couple of effects, all of which are indirect. A. Nitrate and inorganic phosphate are often derived from organic precursors (nitrogen in uneaten food, organic phosphates) and based on reasons given above, this skimmer is probably doing a better job of intercepting organics before they are mineralized than anything I've previously seen. B. Skimmers are pretty damned good mechanical filters, they take a lot of particulates out of the water. Those particulates may be bacteria, phytoplankton, or organic debris. All of them are going to contain some phosphate and organic nitrogen. C. Additionally, because the amount of limewater that may be added is increased, one may get more inorganic precipitation of phosphate, and perhaps removal of this from the system in particulate form. It should be remembered that this report is from a converted fish to reef aquarium, a lot of changes were made at the same time, the most prominent being the replacement of a very good venturi skimmer with the ETS, the addition of high intensity lighting (which will tend to promote algal growth and uptake of both nitrate and phosphate from the system) and the addition of limewater. If anyone cares to dismiss the reduction in inorganic pollutants out of hand because they are not directly removed by the foam fractionation process, I invite them to disconnect their skimmer for an extended period of time and report what happens to the concentration of inorganic pollutants. They will go up. It isn't necessarily a one way street, if you reconnect your skimmer they will probably go down to some extent, as sources of these nutrients are intercepted before mineralization, and nutrients incorporated from that existing soluble pool are utilized, converted into organic form and rendered eligible for removal by a foam fractionator. 5. Most of the people who have these skimmers so far have felt more at ease with feeding the inhabitants more than previously, so there should be benefits to the organisms from this as well. Again, all foam fractionators contribute to the above effects. This skimmer is higher performance, so it just gives more of these benefits than is typical. What are the other considerations related to this skimmer? Well, you need a competent water pump to drive any ETS, and a mail- order little giant pump with enough "humph" to drive the smallest will set you back another hundred dollars or so, more if you decide to go with an Iwaki pump. There will be some incremental heat load on the system because of this. It will probably be offset to some extent by increased evaporation. The need for a strong water pump is shared with venturi skimmers as well, so this is hardly a unique consideration. You will be getting a slightly higher power bill as well. Again, not a unique disadvantage. Everyone's first concern about the skimmer is "do the bioballs cause nitrate to accumulate in the system?" "Do they become colonized by nitrifying bacteria?" The flow is really exceptionally fast and turbulent throughout the bioball section of this skimmer, and I think the bacteria are going to need mountain climber's gear to hang onto the bioballs. No one has reported an increase in nitrate concentration on any system which is running an ETS, and I have asked very pointed questions to both system owners and the designer on this topic. I will pass along any reports of problems along this line. The skimmer apparently "glitches" in the beginning. It doesn't do much for a couple of days, but when it starts producing foam: Watch Out. People have found a few gallons of water on their floor. After that, it seems quite stable. The present version of the skimmer will has an optional collection chamber with a floating check valve which will block the formation of additional skimmate, preventing overflows. Something along these lines is a good option for any skimmer. For your peace of mind, your carpet, and your marriage, it is probably a wise to get this. Why doesn't it skim for a day or so after it is installed? Who knows? Probably because the plastic surfaces in the skimmer need to be primed with organics before it starts to work. Earlier designs returned a small amount of fine air bubbles to the system, for this reason, most people are running them out of their sumps. This problem may have been solved, I saw prototypes. A few bubbles in the sump aren't a big aesthetic issue, and in any event, there wasn't a problematic amount of air being returned. It isn't going to generate noticeable salt spray. There are two possible adjustments on the skimmer, one of which is its height relative to the sump. The second is a water valve that you may choose to supply yourself to control the amount of water going through the skimmer, although most people are running the correctly sized pumps wide open. I don't think it is a good idea to tee off an existing pump to feed the skimmer, and most people don't have enough reserve pumping capacity to make that practical. In practice, this skimmer seems to require a dedicated, correctly sized pump. All of the units I have seen so far were plumbed into the system with flexible (large ID) tubing. This preserves flexibility in height adjustment, and you can keep the turns sweeping and low resistance with flexible tubing, if you do it correctly. As with anything you plumb into your system, you need to do it correctly, with an eye to reducing the possibility of various failure modes. The unit can handle a lot of flow, indeed, up to its design limit, the skimmer works better with increasing water flow. You generally don't want to lose flow or pressure before the water hits the gun at the top of the tower. The ETS will not fit under the cabinet of Anyone's aquarium. And you will probably need to feather the height of the skimmer relative to your sump to get optimal results. Given the amount of time people devote to tuning their skimmers, the initial height adjustment doesn't seem like a major drawback to this design. I've recently spoken with Tony Vargas, who is marketing the skimmer for Gary Loehr, the inventor. They now seem satisfied with the results of the testing and are now ready to distribute the product. The phone number for inquiries is (914) 654-8002, if he is not there, there is a combination answering machine/fax on the line. There are to be exclusive licenses granted to about five stores in five states on the east coast. In other states, skimmers will be mailed out directly by Tony. Pricing and some product literature is now available. The "owner's manual" is being written by Terry Siegel. Terry is now running ETS skimmers on two of his large reef aquaria, and is presently looking to replace his last remaining venturi unit with a third ETS. Greg Schiemer was also closely involved in the testing and evaluation of these skimmers, and his review of this product will appear in the next issue of Aquarium Frontiers. I have a great respect for Greg's skills as an aquarist, having seen his aquaria now on three occasions, it is clear that he is extraordinarily successful with these systems. Greg's most recent articles include a piece on herbivorous hermit crabs and a review of calcium test kits in Aquarium Frontiers. The skimmer doesn't look like anything else I've seen before, and it disrupted some of my cherished ideas of what is truly important for foam fractionation. However, I am only too happy to see paradigms overturned (even when they are mine) if the result is a superior aquarium environment. Based on what I have seen, the ETS skimmer is an example of such a paradigm overturning invention. There is a patent pending on this design. It is well constructed from cast cell acrylic, the seams look strong, and attention has been paid in the design to convenient maintenance (there are flanges in the right places.) The construction quality is on par with the very best commercially available units (for example, the MTC venturi skimmers) and is far, far better executed than most. If you are considering the purchase of a quality skimmer, either for a new system or to upgrade your existing one, I urge you to at least investigate the ETS, and wish you and your corals only the best fortune with whatever design you chose. Craig Bingman ************************************************** -Eric

06/10/2009, 12:33 AM	#388
Peter Eichler Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 6,081	I've got an Evo 500 in great shape for sale if anyone is interested... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1648090 __________________ April 2015 TOTM

06/02/2009, 01:30 PM	#381
llebcire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,210	In reading this thread I'll admit that I've always wondered if I was reaching potential with a Rio that the company claims "provide excellent performance within wet or dry filters and in venturi protein skimmers when high pressure and flow rates are needed" . Part of my thinking is that the RD is rated for 120g and I'm running it on a lightly stocked 72 so the Rio would be adequate. Also, A.E. Tech gives the option of a Catalina 2200 with the Reef Devil Deluxe and it's similar to the high pressure Rio 2500+ that I have. With my setup, I need an internal pump - is there anything better than a Mag for an ETSS that's submersible? If not - sounds like the 9 is better than a 7? I also realize that you need organics for a skimmer to do anything. This tank is just 3 months old, was nearly 100% fresh water when I set it up, has a very light bio-load, and to combat an algae outbreak I've replaced 50 gallons in the last 5 weeks (initially had bad RO membrane & 87 TDS when I filled it). Consists of coral frags, a lawnmower blenny, 3" powder blue tang & 2.5" clown for a load. Cleaned bio-balls, collection cup and riser 8 days ago and started overskimming with clear foam/water. I did shorten the feed tube 3/4" at that time for a better seal on the riser, maybe that made the difference. Wednesday I installed the valve and here are pics from today - been skimming for 6 days: The level in the chamber for the Rio is constant & I designed it to stay @ 7" for the skimmer (1" riser under skimmer as well) Needed to close the valve Wednesday for overskimming, by Friday it was wide open (where it is today) I did clean everything last week, and the collection cup is already muddy Maybe I'm expecting something different - guess it's not bad for a week and so little load. -Eric

06/10/2009, 10:51 AM	#391
stony_corals Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,323	Do any of you use the bigger models 800+ in a heavily used room? Other than the hum from the pump, it is simple to make them relatively quiet? I am planning on using a 900 on a 150 starfire setup, rather than a BK mini 200 (gen1), as the 900 easily blows the BK mini away... Just not sure I want a ton of noise I ran the 900 on a frag system that was a little bigger, and was amazed at the performance.

06/10/2009, 11:34 AM	#392
rigleautomotive Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,705	really not noisier then the fans i use to cool my hood IMO __________________ Dan Rigle President, * Reef Conservation Society TOTM December 2010 Coral Magazine Sept/Oct 2012 Current Tank Info: 180 gal SPS dominated display, 3 X 250 watt Radiums , lumenarc III minis , with VHO actinics, ETS downdraft skimmers, closed loops and 2 Tunze 6105 & 7095 controller,DIY calcium reactors DIY custom built sumps,since 1992

06/11/2009, 07:25 PM	#396
cnaegler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sylva, NC-Western North Carolina Posts: 960	OK..i took out my mini bio- balls and counted and cleaned them...i've got 13. So i put them back with only 12 and i'm gonna wait and see what that does. __________________ Craig _________________________ ATL "Superman" acro, Vivid's Rainbow Delight acro wanted You can want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first!! Save the reefs! Buy captive bred fish and aquacultured corals! Current Tank Info: Downsizing to a 120 BB SPS tank, 6205 &6305 Tunze on 7095 controller, Current USA extreme 8 x 54 fixture Last edited by cnaegler; 06/11/2009 at 07:30 PM.

06/16/2009, 09:20 AM	#397
llebcire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,210	Weird...got an e-mail that a new post was added here today @ 8:55 am (Central time/my timezone). Anyway...I'm finding the issue with my skimmer is the bioballs. I have more of a different type that I will try (not looking to spend $10 when I only need 12 from ETSS) and I'm also going to tie them together with more spacing in an attempt to keep them separated. If I give a tug to the fishing line, separating them, it skims like crazy. In the meantime, I had a powerhead drop in the middle of the night so I have the remnents of a sand storm to deal with, which will entail cleaning the skimmer/powerheads/return pump/etc. Yay! -Eric

06/23/2009, 08:45 AM	#398
llebcire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,210	Think I'm making some progress, and it seems to be related to the bioballs settling in/packing too tightly and limiting foam production. Pictures are after one week of production...after some aquascaping I had a powerhead fall in the middle of the night and create quite a sandstorm - last Tuesday I cleaned all the powerhead, pumps and the skimmer. The bioballs are connected with fishing line so I can easily remove them, there's a rubber gasket on the end of the line for weight and a handle, and I've found that if I keep the line taught (wrapped around drain in collection cup) I get great foam production. It's been one week and I still can't open the valve completely from the pump which tells me I'm on the right track. Before, I would need to limit the flow initially, and apparently the bioballs would get packed within a couple of days and I would need to keep adjust for output. -Eric

06/23/2009, 02:28 PM	#399
furman589 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 182	I am the new owner of 600xr professional.... and all I can say is WOW. I have it paired up with a blueline 40 hd and it creates a huge head of foam. I was skeptical at first with the price of this skimmer but so far I am very very impressed. I will see how it performs in the next few weeks but i doubt ill be disappointed. Will post pics soon

06/23/2009, 03:04 PM	#400
todd williams Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 82	I had a evolution 500 or what it was called when I bought it. It ran flawlessly on my 90 gallon for about 10yrs. I really thought it did a great job for me over its life. I only changed the bio balls every couple of years and gave it periodic soaks in vinegar to clean it. Simple design, easy to maintain and it worked. What else can you say? It still looks good even after years of use. When I set up my new 200 gallon I switched to a Bubble King. I think it is even better but then again you are comparing apples an oranges.