Pipefish in QT - feeding?

[NicoleC]

I am currently converting my tank to a seagrass lagoon biotope. I have considered pipefishes (since I have peaceful & compatible tankmates), but decided not to take the risk due to the amount to flow, which is about 15x turnover in a 100g tank.

Well, I was at a shop today and they were upset that they had been shipped a banded pipefish (Dunckerocampus dactyliophorus) they didn't order, didn't want, weren't able to care for, and they didn't want him to die. It's a new shop, so they didn't even have an established tank with lots of food to put it in.

Of course, this sucker took him home for a token couple of bucks. If he works out in the main tank, fine, if not I have a lower flow goby tank, and if that doesn't work I can at least get him stabalized and eating so I can find him a good home.

He is in QT now. He seems robust, strong and healthy, and is showing some curiosity about his new surroundings. Also having no trouble with the flow, which I was careful to watch for. (It's a JBJ nanocube.)

I tried frozen cyclopeeze, and he reacted to the food quite strongly and acted very interested, but I did not see him actually eat any. Now, I don't expect a WC fish to start eating right away, but I think the interest is a good sign.

I started some decapsulated BBS hatching and will should have at least *some* enriched BBS by midday tomorrow. I realize this is not appropriate food long term, but perhaps I can at least get some food in him ASAP.

I have a whole battery of fish meds, food, supplies and stuff for baby fish, but know nothing about sygnathid parasites & diseases, and the lovely store of info on the forums at seahorse.org isn't working tonight.

1) Are there any prophylactic treatments I should do?
2) Would the snick be easily visible? Or does it happen so fast that his obvious interest in food is a likely sign he is eating?
3) Is CE too small? His mouth is so small, it seemed an appropriate size food to try.

Your help and advice would be appreciated. Long term, I definately want him eating frozen foods, but I need to get him through this transition period, first!

[hawkfish21]

My pipefish started eating on day 3. They're mouths are small, but mine can eat PE Mysis without any problems at all. It's definately a good sign they are showing interest. Keep trying.

[waterfaller1]

I agree with the Piscine mysis..or even the tiny mysis.

[TamiW]

Hikari mysis is great for these pipes. Much easier for them than PE because of the size. BBS should work in the short term as well too. If its healthy, it will probably start on the cyclopeeze fairly soon as well. It might even take adult bs, but that seems to vary with these pipes (my janss takes adult brine but my multibands show no interest)

As for prophylactic treatment, treating for parasites is a good idea. Praziquental and fenbendazole are the treatment of choice. Fenbendazole should be injested, so gut load adult bs or babies. Praziquantal should be done as a bath. I don't remember the exact dosages; but you can find them here: http://seahorse.fisheries.ubc.ca/pdf...dry_Manual.pdf

Both meds should be available through farm supply outlets. Praziquantal can also be found for koi and for dogs and cats.

[NicoleC]

This morning the reaction was not as excited to the CE, although he did react, so I suspect he did NOT eat any. he had a better reaction to frozen rotifers, and I *think* I saw some get injested.

No early hatcher BBS yet; sometimes you get some that hatch overnight.

I have Prazi-Pro, and I will give him a bath once he starts eating or if he appears to do poorly before he starts eating.

I thought I was out of it, but I dug around in the freezer and found some Hikari mysis. Only a little freezer burned. I'll give it a try as soon as it defrosts, and hopefully my LFS has more in stock; it can be hard to find around here for some reason. I have a bunch of Jemco mysis, but that stuff is definately too big.

By the way, the fish seems to be an adolescent or a sub-adult. He's about 4 1/2" long.

Thanks for the advice -- I want to do right by this poor guy. And if he does well and works out in the main tank, probably a mate for him as well. (And no, I don't know if he's male or female... I haven't gotten a good enough picture yet to check his equipment.) If so, I guess I won't be getting that flame angle for my lagoon.

[NicoleC]

No response at all to the mysis.

[hawkfish21]

Keep trying.

[NicoleC]

Oh, I will! I just wish those BBS would hurry up and hatch. If he takes the BBS but nothing else, I'll move him to a fry tank setup with just sponge filter and air, where he can hunt brine all day to get stabalized.

[NanoLurker]

nicole,

i know frozen is your preference, but if for any reason during this acclimation period, the little fella won't eat frozen, rotifers, or bbs i have some very, very, very small penaeus vannamei that i can give you. i hate to admit this but i get a regular shipment of them every couple of weeks from seawaterexpress.com. i generally get 1/4 - 1/2" but there are always some a lot smaller than that in the bag. i currently don't have a lot of the small ones but it will be something should he/she continue to refuse food.

there is also h20 mini mysis that you could try, smaller in size than hikari.

bridgett

[NicoleC]

Thanks, I will keep that in mind, Bridgette. If he takes to BBS but refuses other food, I will put him in a fry tank setup (sponge filter, lots of air); I always end up with gobs of sea monkeys and strain out the big ones.

You should be able to cuture Penaeus Vannamei using a shrimp diet, I would think, instead of ordering them all the time. It's probably easier than rotifers!

It just occured to me that he is in QT with two peppermint shrimps, and one is holding eggs. He may get a good meal of shrimp any day now!

[NanoLurker]

good thing you found the pregnant shrimp yesterday! i got a pregnant FW ghost shrimp yesterday.

not sure about culturing these guys, from what i understand they get to be around 9" and space is a factor at my place. i don't know at what age they start to breed either, maybe someday i'll look into it. for now, i'm lazy and don't really need to eat myself someday i'll also take george up on his offer to tour his facility.

good luck with the bbs, my gobies will eat them but none of my horses will.

[NicoleC]

9"! Maybe a smaller shrimp... maybe peppermints!

[NicoleC]

This morning I was horribly depressed. All this poor guy has done is try to meet his reflection in the side of the tank and ocassionally harass the peppermints a bit.

Last night I came home late and both my BBS cultures crashed and went rancid. I strained out maybe a dozen tough survivers -- and because it was after lights out, I turned on the room lights a bit and went ahead and put them in the tank. I know pipefish don't eat at night, but I figured the room lights might be enough or the BBS might stay out of the filter until morning.

I started a couple of new cultures and went to bed. I come in this morning and the peppermint shrimp that was holding eggs is dead. I fished the shrimp out.

I try to feed again with rotifers, cyclopeeze, golden pearls and even Otohime weaning diet... nothing, he doesn't even act interested. He did give a live amphipod the evil eye, but the pod went on scavenging. There's food blowing all over the tank, but as a last ditch effort I also throw in some decapsulated BBS eggs.

Snap!

Wait... did he just...

Snap!

I'm not sure what he ate of that mess, but he did eat two little somethings, and maybe a third. After it doesn't look like he's going to do anything else, I turn the pumps back on and walk away with the dead shrimp with a lighter step.

Before tossing the shrimp in the trash, I decide to look for cause of death. Hmmmm... where are the eggs? No sign of tumors, parasites or other typical shrimp killers.

When leaving for work, I see that he is (finally!) not staring at his reflection and is swimming around a bit.

Did the pipefish kill the shrimp? (That would be impressive.)
Did the shrimp release the eggs before dying, and the pipefish got a good meal?
Did the pipefish scavenge the shrimp for eggs, or was it the other peppermint... and could the other peppermint have eaten that many eggs?

Well, I am delighted he ate *something,* even if I don't know if it's just those two little bits or a big feast.

[NicoleC]

P.S. He's pigging out on BBS.

[Schieby]

Hello Nicole,


the only way to go is living mysis in the long run. Here in Germany we can order this at some webshops, and they will send it. With one order, I can feed my pair for 3 to 4 weeks, while the mysis is fed with all kind of the usual fish foods.
My pair is eating frozen food, but as long as I can get living food, I will go this route. And you know, once a week they get fresh hatched Stonogobiops nematodes larvae. Wish you luck with this fellow. If you can get them to eat regularly you shouldn´t have problems to keep them healthy.




Bye Erik

[NicoleC]

Hi Erik,

I had a new home in a species tank, but the person backed out. So last night he got acclimated to his own tank so I could deworm him.

Anyway, once in my reef, he will have lots of fresh, live food. Since I am in the process of rebuilding the tank, I am low on mysis right now (I'm in the copepod bloom stage), but it will bounce back.

He did sample some of my homemade frozen fish food last night -- just a few snicks, but it was nice to see.

[pledosophy]

Great to hear he's eating the frozen. That will make life way easier for you.

[NicoleC]

Woo hoo! He had a hearty dinner of 100% frozen food tonight!

I would have liked to have seen him eat more, though, but I honestly think it's his slow eating style. For the duration of QT (at least) I will need to supplement with live BBS; placing in less and less so he learns more about "feeding time."

[pledosophy]

The more frozen food the better. It has to be your crazy recipe.

Congrats.

That was remarkably fast for a syngnthaid IME. Kudos to you.

Kevin

[Schieby]

Hello,

yes , this was the way my pair did it. If no live food is available they take frozen snacks. Not with great entusiasm but they won´t starve.....but you know there is another behaviour with live food, they can hunt something...steal stuff out of their buddies snout as long as it is moving, which looks to be great fun for my pair, so life doesn`t get so boring for them.

Just another question: Is anybody able to tell the difference between male and female....err....Dunckerocampus dactyliophorus ?

Bye Erik from Bavaria

[Schieby]

Originally posted by NicoleC
Woo hoo! He had a hearty dinner of 100% frozen food tonight!

I would have liked to have seen him eat more, though, but I honestly think it's his slow eating style..."

I guess in their natural surroundings they eat the whole day long more or less. I believe they stand right in their food and only have to suck it in more or less. I can see this everytime new nematodes larvaes are released. They don´t hunt them...looking out of their cave they snap just what´s swimming by. Real active hunting is only seen with mysid shrimps. Try to feed him several times per day.

Bye Erik

[Schieby]

Hi,

how is your pipe doin, I hope he is well.
Got a new box live mysis for mine yesterday!


Erik

[NicoleC]

He was doing very well until Tuesday night. In the morning he was fine and happy and eating; when I came home in the evening he was dying. I tried everything I could to help him, but he was gone by the morning.

[TamiW]

I'm sorry to hear about your guy. Something similar with my multibandeds. They were really doing great, then a little over a week ago one of the pipes just stopped eating and a day later was dead. The remaining one I haven't seen eat since; he's still alive and active, but is getting skinner by the day. Introduced a bunch of copepods a few days ago, and he looks at them but that's it. I'm unsure what to treat for because I don't know what's wrong.