T5 lights - why (and which one)?

mwwhite · 01/25/2007, 05:14 PM

The T5 thread in the lighting forum is a little heady for me at the moment. Best to start here with the basics.

Our LFS set us up with Current USA 4x65 PCs (260 total watts or 3.5 watts per gallon for our 72 bow).

I understand that T5's put out "more" or "better" light, necessary for corals with higher light demand, and some clams.

But do we really need them? We have SPS (green, orange, purple Montipori), LPS (white bubble, Wellsophyllia, Trumpet/Candy Cane, Pineapple, Torch), softies (Pumping and Pom-Pom Xenia, Alveopora), shrooms (red, blue, green-striped), Blue Ricordea, and Orange Ricordea, Toadstool Mushroom Leather, and a zoo (Button Polyp). They all appear to be healthy - good coloration, good polyp/tentacle activity.

As is, SPS such as Acroporas, as well as some other demanding corals and clams are out of the question.

Would I benefit from T5s? Would I likely see better coloration? Or would they be harmful for some of my corals, such as the softies? Additionally, the Current USA Nova T5 fixture would fit in the ventilitation holes I've already drilled in my canopy, but I understand that they're low-end, and don't have individual reflectors.

In short, is it a smart move? If so, I have a couple of questions about wattage and the different kinds of bulbs.

bertoni · 01/25/2007, 05:20 PM

I personally don't like the color of T5 bulbs, but they will grow corals nicely. The Aquactinics units get good reviews. Any setup with one reflector per bulb will be more efficient than PC or VHO setups. Otherwise, I don't think they're likely much better at all.

If your animals are doing well, there's no need to change. A new setup might cause some problems for animals that prefer lower lighting levels, but the soft corals will adapt.

zoomfish1 · 01/25/2007, 05:29 PM

I can see the softies, mushrooms and zoas doing OK under the PC's but I can't think the LPS and SPS you have would do too good. They may live but I don't think they would grow much or put on as much color as with t5's or Halides. Just my opinion, though.

bertoni · 01/25/2007, 05:43 PM

I've grown Caulastrea and open brain corals under PC light with no problems. They don't grow as rapidly, perhaps, but that wasn't an issue for me.

Lydo · 01/25/2007, 06:25 PM

I have PC lighting and I love it. The only thing I don't like is the heat it produces and noise from the fan.

I have a 90G tank that is 24" deep. The light fixture is sitting around 1" above the tank.

I have an open brain on the sand and he's doing just great and has grown since I got him.

I also have a frogspawn near the top that is splitting. So in my opinion, PC is good for eveything but sps and clams.

Although I've been having success with them, I'm still wanting to change to T5 lighting. I would like to get some sps in there so...

mwwhite · 01/25/2007, 06:33 PM

Thanks bertoni, zoomfish1, Lydo. It would be easier if there was a resounding "they're not worth it"!

The Monti's are supposed to be an easy SPS, and "the LFS told me" that the Ricordea would do well with PCs if placed high, but I want them to thrive; I want to give them the best possible chance to do well.

Thanks, too, for your input on Aquatinics. I'll do some reading about them. Are the Current USA Nova T5's THAT bad? Would I get sufficent benefit/improved light relative to PCs?

Do you have an opinion about wattage? Would it be better to improve on 3.5 watts per gallon?

MCary · 01/25/2007, 06:46 PM

Don't think watts per gallon. The depth of the tank and coverage area of the lights is whats important.

REMF · 01/25/2007, 06:56 PM

T5's are very strong, My shrooms have moved under ledges and in cracks with no direct light. You have to be careful when switching to a good T5 setup. I have also melted ricâ€™s on the bottom of my tank.

So yes a proper T5 setup will allow you to keep just about anything (SPS/clams) with proper placement but be careful with lower light demanding corals.

One nice thing about T5â€™s is you can mix and match bulbs until you find a color you like. The new UVL actinicâ€™s are a nice addition to the choices.

I don't think the current nova fixtures have individual reflectors so you will not get as much light out of them. What about using a retro to fit in the current canopy/hood?

Just for an example, I purchased an Acro frag from my LFS that run's PC's. (they said it would do ok under PCâ€™s yea right) They had the frag for at least 2 weeks, I was checking on it and literally watched it go down hill. The frag had very little PE and the color was turning brown. The frag has been in my tank (5 x 54w t5â€™s) for 1 week and the color is turning a light red with very good PE.

mwwhite · 01/25/2007, 06:57 PM

That's deep...(sorry).

My 72 is 20" deep, less a couple of inches for the sand substrate. It's also 48" long x 12" wide.

I'm trying to find a site that shows cost as well, but am not having much luck using Google to do so - mostly user forum discussions and outdated E-bay listings.

(and I see that I've been spelling Aquactinics incorrectly).

REMF · 01/25/2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpankinNew
I'm trying to find a site that shows cost as well, but am not having much luck using Google to do so - mostly user forum discussions and outdated E-bay listings.

Cost of what?

mwwhite · 01/25/2007, 07:28 PM

Aquactinics lighting. I see that they have a 48" fixture - TX5 5 Lamp T5 HO, and am curious.

Still want to look at the Current USA Nova T5, too. A drop in efficeincy may be good, if it's a worthwhile improvement over PCs, and would mitigate damage to low-light corals.

Cost is only one factor, but your footer says it all. This one will push her over the edge - I need to make sure that "the juice is worth the squeeze".

REMF · 01/25/2007, 07:46 PM

One thing I donâ€™t like about Aquactinics lights is they don't use waterproof end caps but they use a shield. I could just imagine cleaning salt off the shield

that would suck.

I think if you go with the nova you will not be happy and later wish you spent the money on a better unit. Have you looked at the TEK lights?

But then again it all depends on what you want to keep.

If you do switch just acclimate the corals using layers of screen and remove a layer a week.

danch · 01/25/2007, 08:48 PM

I'm trying to decide between the Aquactinics and the Tek 6 tube fixture right now (for a 75G). Pricewise, they're within $30 or so of one-another. I've found a couple places with the Tek fixture for around 320, Aquarium specialty is the only online vendor with the Aquactinics at 357.

What fixture do you have, REMF? did you DIY it?

danch · 01/25/2007, 08:49 PM

Forgot to say - I don't see any point to a T5 fixture without individual reflectors - that's the real advantage of T5, so far as I can tell.

REMF · 01/25/2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danch
What fixture do you have, REMF? did you DIY it?

Yes I have a retro/DIY, I built a hood and installed the end caps and stand offâ€™s, very simple really, and very cost effective.

But if you need a fixture TEK is a very good option.

ficklefins · 01/26/2007, 01:01 AM

I have the aquactinics setup and I think it is great! If you are going to get a T5 setup I would suggest getting a aquactinics setup or waiting for reefgeek to get the ATI series in stock.

When I got my Aquactinics setup I also got the legs just because it was easier for me to get my hands in the tank with the lights raised above the tank. Cleaning the splashguard is rarely a concern and I do it perhaps once a month or two. They have a very nice setup and I have 100% faith in the company.

The only warning I would give you is regarding the higher output of the light setup. I have a SPS/LPS/Zoa/Softy/Anemone setup and I had some bleaching with my corals. Make sure to acclimate your items well (lower in the tank with a shorter lighting period) and your corals should do well under this lighting setup. Someone recommended Aquactinics to me and after having used them I would also recommend them myself.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

ficklefins · 01/26/2007, 01:05 AM

I forgot to mention that I went from
4x65w PC over a 55g standard to
1x250w MH over a 20g high to
5x39w T5 over a 50g breeder (36x18x18)

NeveSSL · 01/26/2007, 01:21 AM

REMF...

Where did you find the best prices for your retro supplies? I'm finding that it seems to be about the same price as a TEK unit off of eBay...

Brandon

REMF · 01/26/2007, 01:58 AM

NeveSSL,

I purchased all of my stuff from aqualuxlighting.com about a year and a half-ago, not even sure if they are still in business; the web site is still up. I did some quick math and it looks like a 6 bulb retro with IC reflectors and WH ballasts would run about 320 or so.

NeveSSL · 01/26/2007, 02:46 AM

Thats about what I was getting elsewhere, too. The thing of it is, I can get a TEK 6-lamp fixture for $295 including shipping on eBay.

Do you think there are any benefits of retro over buying a fixture? I was thinking possibly that you would be able to move things around easier if I you were to had MH lights or something else... although I think for my personal 90 gal that I plan on doing, T5s will be all that I will need.

Is it as easy to put the fixtures in a canopy as it is retro stuff? I plan on DIYing a canopy. Or would something like this be better off hung or attached to the edges of the tank?

Thanks much!

Brandon

sgallagher7 · 01/26/2007, 08:00 AM

I e-mailed the current representative, and he told me that the new Nova Extream T5 setup's coming out will have individual reflectors. They should be out in the next 30 to 45 days.

mwwhite · 01/26/2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by danch
Forgot to say - I don't see any point to a T5 fixture without individual reflectors - that's the real advantage of T5, so far as I can tell.

If that were true, wouldn't it be better to simply add reflectors to PC lights?

I've read the concerns about too much light and cautions to acclimate a change over time. If the Current USA Nova is an improvement over PCs, but not so intense as to risk injuring sensitive corals, doesn't it make them a suitable alternative? (Assuming of source that the difference between it and PC is worthwhile).

For me, the fixture's footprint is also attractive - the housing is identical to my Current USA PCs, including fan placement - they'd align with the existing ventilation holes in my canopy.

I can throw some money at whatever's needed. I just don't want to be stupid about it.

mwwhite · 01/26/2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgallagher7
I e-mailed the current representative, and he told me that the new Nova Extream T5 setup's coming out will have individual reflectors. They should be out in the next 30 to 45 days.

Our posts crossed! Thanks for this well-timed information. Do you have the contact information? I'd don't see them in RC sponsor forum and would like to watch for the lights.

danch · 01/26/2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpankinNew
If that were true, wouldn't it be better to simply add reflectors to PC lights?

The shape of the bulb makes it harder to build a reflector for it. A good reflector would have to be not only wider, but also deeper. Also, because the PC build loops back on itself, part of the light output goes right into the other leg of the tube. Sure, some is transmitted, but there are losses and interference there.

All as I understand from what I've read - I'm neither a lighting engineer nor a PAR-meter carrying light-geek.

techreef · 01/26/2007, 08:52 AM

A kind of rare consideration also re: the various retro kits is to consider the amount of electrical "noise" the ballast(s) create. The TEK ballasts are much noisier than IC ballasts. It can be an issue because if your running your system off of an electrical circuit that is close to maxed out, or you have GFCI's installed (which you should) the TEK ballast may keep tripping your GFCI. I have two retro kits: an IC 4-bulb kit and a TEK 2-bulb kit. I should have been less price-sensitive and just gone with a 100% IC setup. Every time my TEK lights are running, at some point they trip my GFCI, which shuts down not only those 2 bulbs but also my fan and my autotop-off system. Not cool. I installed a noise filter between the TEK ballast and the GFCI; it helps some, but only delays the tripping event without preventing it. I figure most people won't ever have to worry about this, but since you still haven't spent any $ on this potential new setup, I'd advise you to buy the best quality you can afford. IceCap to me makes terrific quality level products.

01/25/2007, 05:14 PM	#1
mwwhite Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land O Lakes, FL Posts: 690	T5 lights - why (and which one)? The T5 thread in the lighting forum is a little heady for me at the moment. Best to start here with the basics. Our LFS set us up with Current USA 4x65 PCs (260 total watts or 3.5 watts per gallon for our 72 bow). I understand that T5's put out "more" or "better" light, necessary for corals with higher light demand, and some clams. But do we really need them? We have SPS (green, orange, purple Montipori), LPS (white bubble, Wellsophyllia, Trumpet/Candy Cane, Pineapple, Torch), softies (Pumping and Pom-Pom Xenia, Alveopora), shrooms (red, blue, green-striped), Blue Ricordea, and Orange Ricordea, Toadstool Mushroom Leather, and a zoo (Button Polyp). They all appear to be healthy - good coloration, good polyp/tentacle activity. As is, SPS such as Acroporas, as well as some other demanding corals and clams are out of the question. Would I benefit from T5s? Would I likely see better coloration? Or would they be harmful for some of my corals, such as the softies? Additionally, the Current USA Nova T5 fixture would fit in the ventilitation holes I've already drilled in my canopy, but I understand that they're low-end, and don't have individual reflectors. In short, is it a smart move? If so, I have a couple of questions about wattage and the different kinds of bulbs.

01/25/2007, 05:20 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I personally don't like the color of T5 bulbs, but they will grow corals nicely. The Aquactinics units get good reviews. Any setup with one reflector per bulb will be more efficient than PC or VHO setups. Otherwise, I don't think they're likely much better at all. If your animals are doing well, there's no need to change. A new setup might cause some problems for animals that prefer lower lighting levels, but the soft corals will adapt. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/25/2007, 05:29 PM	#3
zoomfish1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Claremore, Oklahoma Posts: 1,659	I can see the softies, mushrooms and zoas doing OK under the PC's but I can't think the LPS and SPS you have would do too good. They may live but I don't think they would grow much or put on as much color as with t5's or Halides. Just my opinion, though. __________________ Zoomfish Current Tank Info: 75g RR, dsb w/90 lbs sand, 150 lb live rock, anemone & LPS tank

01/25/2007, 05:43 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I've grown Caulastrea and open brain corals under PC light with no problems. They don't grow as rapidly, perhaps, but that wasn't an issue for me. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/25/2007, 06:25 PM	#5
Lydo Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 121	I have PC lighting and I love it. The only thing I don't like is the heat it produces and noise from the fan. I have a 90G tank that is 24" deep. The light fixture is sitting around 1" above the tank. I have an open brain on the sand and he's doing just great and has grown since I got him. I also have a frogspawn near the top that is splitting. So in my opinion, PC is good for eveything but sps and clams. Although I've been having success with them, I'm still wanting to change to T5 lighting. I would like to get some sps in there so... __________________ 90g tank with internal coast to coast overflow. Quiet One 4000 HH return pump reeflow dart for Closed loop 3 in sandbed Berlin turbo XL Skimmer 4 48" daylight T5s 2 48" T5 actinics

01/25/2007, 06:33 PM	#6
mwwhite Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land O Lakes, FL Posts: 690	Thanks bertoni, zoomfish1, Lydo. It would be easier if there was a resounding "they're not worth it"! The Monti's are supposed to be an easy SPS, and "the LFS told me" that the Ricordea would do well with PCs if placed high, but I want them to thrive; I want to give them the best possible chance to do well. Thanks, too, for your input on Aquatinics. I'll do some reading about them. Are the Current USA Nova T5's THAT bad? Would I get sufficent benefit/improved light relative to PCs? Do you have an opinion about wattage? Would it be better to improve on 3.5 watts per gallon? __________________ gwen Current Tank Info: 150 Mixed reef (gone now)

01/25/2007, 06:46 PM	#7
MCary Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hardin, Montana Posts: 3,142	Don't think watts per gallon. The depth of the tank and coverage area of the lights is whats important.

01/25/2007, 06:56 PM	#8
REMF Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 669	T5's are very strong, My shrooms have moved under ledges and in cracks with no direct light. You have to be careful when switching to a good T5 setup. I have also melted ricâ€™s on the bottom of my tank. So yes a proper T5 setup will allow you to keep just about anything (SPS/clams) with proper placement but be careful with lower light demanding corals. One nice thing about T5â€™s is you can mix and match bulbs until you find a color you like. The new UVL actinicâ€™s are a nice addition to the choices. I don't think the current nova fixtures have individual reflectors so you will not get as much light out of them. What about using a retro to fit in the current canopy/hood? Just for an example, I purchased an Acro frag from my LFS that run's PC's. (they said it would do ok under PCâ€™s yea right) They had the frag for at least 2 weeks, I was checking on it and literally watched it go down hill. The frag had very little PE and the color was turning brown. The frag has been in my tank (5 x 54w t5â€™s) for 1 week and the color is turning a light red with very good PE. __________________ Really honey, this will be the last thing I need for my reef. Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Reef, T5ho. 46 Gal bow FOWLR, 20 Gal L 250w mh reef.

01/25/2007, 06:57 PM	#9
mwwhite Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land O Lakes, FL Posts: 690	That's deep...(sorry). My 72 is 20" deep, less a couple of inches for the sand substrate. It's also 48" long x 12" wide. I'm trying to find a site that shows cost as well, but am not having much luck using Google to do so - mostly user forum discussions and outdated E-bay listings. (and I see that I've been spelling Aquactinics incorrectly). __________________ gwen Current Tank Info: 150 Mixed reef (gone now)

01/25/2007, 07:28 PM	#11
mwwhite Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land O Lakes, FL Posts: 690	Aquactinics lighting. I see that they have a 48" fixture - TX5 5 Lamp T5 HO, and am curious. Still want to look at the Current USA Nova T5, too. A drop in efficeincy may be good, if it's a worthwhile improvement over PCs, and would mitigate damage to low-light corals. Cost is only one factor, but your footer says it all. This one will push her over the edge - I need to make sure that "the juice is worth the squeeze". __________________ gwen Current Tank Info: 150 Mixed reef (gone now)

01/25/2007, 07:46 PM	#12
REMF Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 669	One thing I donâ€™t like about Aquactinics lights is they don't use waterproof end caps but they use a shield. I could just imagine cleaning salt off the shield that would suck. I think if you go with the nova you will not be happy and later wish you spent the money on a better unit. Have you looked at the TEK lights? But then again it all depends on what you want to keep. If you do switch just acclimate the corals using layers of screen and remove a layer a week. __________________ Really honey, this will be the last thing I need for my reef. Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Reef, T5ho. 46 Gal bow FOWLR, 20 Gal L 250w mh reef.

01/25/2007, 08:48 PM	#13
danch Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 614	I'm trying to decide between the Aquactinics and the Tek 6 tube fixture right now (for a 75G). Pricewise, they're within $30 or so of one-another. I've found a couple places with the Tek fixture for around 320, Aquarium specialty is the only online vendor with the Aquactinics at 357. What fixture do you have, REMF? did you DIY it? __________________ Asking dumb questions since '06! Or, a dumby asking questions since '06! Current Tank Info: 29G FW, 75G LPSing

01/25/2007, 08:49 PM	#14
danch Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 614	Forgot to say - I don't see any point to a T5 fixture without individual reflectors - that's the real advantage of T5, so far as I can tell. __________________ Asking dumb questions since '06! Or, a dumby asking questions since '06! Current Tank Info: 29G FW, 75G LPSing

01/26/2007, 01:01 AM	#16
ficklefins Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 902	I have the aquactinics setup and I think it is great! If you are going to get a T5 setup I would suggest getting a aquactinics setup or waiting for reefgeek to get the ATI series in stock. When I got my Aquactinics setup I also got the legs just because it was easier for me to get my hands in the tank with the lights raised above the tank. Cleaning the splashguard is rarely a concern and I do it perhaps once a month or two. They have a very nice setup and I have 100% faith in the company. The only warning I would give you is regarding the higher output of the light setup. I have a SPS/LPS/Zoa/Softy/Anemone setup and I had some bleaching with my corals. Make sure to acclimate your items well (lower in the tank with a shorter lighting period) and your corals should do well under this lighting setup. Someone recommended Aquactinics to me and after having used them I would also recommend them myself. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. __________________ ^I just wanted that line^ Current Tank Info: 30g Breeder..mmmmmm

01/26/2007, 01:05 AM	#17
ficklefins Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 902	I forgot to mention that I went from 4x65w PC over a 55g standard to 1x250w MH over a 20g high to 5x39w T5 over a 50g breeder (36x18x18) __________________ ^I just wanted that line^ Current Tank Info: 30g Breeder..mmmmmm

01/26/2007, 01:21 AM	#18
NeveSSL Got tubes? Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 6,759	REMF... Where did you find the best prices for your retro supplies? I'm finding that it seems to be about the same price as a TEK unit off of eBay... Brandon

01/26/2007, 01:58 AM	#19
REMF Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 669	NeveSSL, I purchased all of my stuff from aqualuxlighting.com about a year and a half-ago, not even sure if they are still in business; the web site is still up. I did some quick math and it looks like a 6 bulb retro with IC reflectors and WH ballasts would run about 320 or so. __________________ Really honey, this will be the last thing I need for my reef. Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Reef, T5ho. 46 Gal bow FOWLR, 20 Gal L 250w mh reef.

01/26/2007, 02:46 AM	#20
NeveSSL Got tubes? Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 6,759	Thats about what I was getting elsewhere, too. The thing of it is, I can get a TEK 6-lamp fixture for $295 including shipping on eBay. Do you think there are any benefits of retro over buying a fixture? I was thinking possibly that you would be able to move things around easier if I you were to had MH lights or something else... although I think for my personal 90 gal that I plan on doing, T5s will be all that I will need. Is it as easy to put the fixtures in a canopy as it is retro stuff? I plan on DIYing a canopy. Or would something like this be better off hung or attached to the edges of the tank? Thanks much! Brandon

01/26/2007, 08:00 AM	#21
sgallagher7 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 621	I e-mailed the current representative, and he told me that the new Nova Extream T5 setup's coming out will have individual reflectors. They should be out in the next 30 to 45 days. __________________ Going to the dentist or reef tank? Hmmmm....... Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Mix reef, 20 Gal sump. Euroreef 80 Skimmer, Reefbreeder photon 48 LEDS, Gyre 150 powerhead, Auto Topoff

01/26/2007, 08:52 AM	#25
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	A kind of rare consideration also re: the various retro kits is to consider the amount of electrical "noise" the ballast(s) create. The TEK ballasts are much noisier than IC ballasts. It can be an issue because if your running your system off of an electrical circuit that is close to maxed out, or you have GFCI's installed (which you should) the TEK ballast may keep tripping your GFCI. I have two retro kits: an IC 4-bulb kit and a TEK 2-bulb kit. I should have been less price-sensitive and just gone with a 100% IC setup. Every time my TEK lights are running, at some point they trip my GFCI, which shuts down not only those 2 bulbs but also my fan and my autotop-off system. Not cool. I installed a noise filter between the TEK ballast and the GFCI; it helps some, but only delays the tripping event without preventing it. I figure most people won't ever have to worry about this, but since you still haven't spent any $ on this potential new setup, I'd advise you to buy the best quality you can afford. IceCap to me makes terrific quality level products.