Ick problem...HELP!!

yaya2930 · 02/12/2007, 08:55 AM

Hi folks,

First, I can't believe how great this community is! I'm so glad I found this website.

Second, I need help. I had an ick outbreak a few weeks ago when I bought a blue hippo. I immediately got Kick-Ick and started treating with the "heavy outbreak" dosage instructions. That seemed to work, but then when I got to the end of the treatement cycle, it came back with a vengance. Nothing has been able to touch it. I have lost the hippo, an engineering goby, two clowns, and what really seems strange, a coral banded. Losing the coral banded makes me think that it is something other than ick, but I don't know what it could be. We are upgrading to a 120, so I moved all the fish to a hospital tank and started treating with copper safe. The sailfin currently has white spots and cloudy eyes. Everyone else is a little skittish, but seems okay.

I really don't want to lose any more fish, so if anyone has any ideas if it could be somehting else please let me know. Also, I have the inverts and live rock in a seperate tank at the moment as we will be getting the new tank tonight. Can I put the rock into the new tank? How about any of the water (not the copper treated water) to help seed the tank? I really don't know what to do so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jfl14609 · 02/12/2007, 09:25 AM

Are the fish eating?

johno4 · 02/12/2007, 09:38 AM

If you have the 120 I would set it up with the rock, sand and other inverts and leave that tank setup just like that with no fish for at least 1 month. Any ick on your rocks ext. will run through its life cycle and die. Leave your fish in the hosp. tank treating with the copper again for at least a month. Remember to buy a test kit and measure your level of copper, to much will kill your fish. If the fish are eating feed several small meals and soak the food in garlic and selecon. thats what i would do

bjromaine · 02/12/2007, 09:58 AM

Don't put any LR that has been subjected to copper in the new tank!!!!

yaya2930 · 02/12/2007, 10:06 AM

nope, no live rock is in the hospital tank. that is seperate. should i use any of the old water (not water from the hospital tank...water from the rocks and inverts) or start completely fresh?

SkiFletch · 02/12/2007, 10:11 AM

As long as you go a month without any fish in there, yes

nwrogers · 02/12/2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johno4
If you have the 120 I would set it up with the rock, sand and other inverts and leave that tank setup just like that with no fish for at least 1 month. Any ick on your rocks ext. will run through its life cycle and die. Leave your fish in the hosp. tank treating with the copper again for at least a month. Remember to buy a test kit and measure your level of copper, to much will kill your fish. If the fish are eating feed several small meals and soak the food in garlic and selecon. thats what i would do

This is a very good plan. Also I would only reuse the rock. Start with new sand and water. Good luck!

johno4 · 02/12/2007, 10:34 AM

I agree with nate use new sand.

yaya2930 · 02/12/2007, 10:39 AM

Thanks for the help, everyone. Oh, and John04, shouldn't you be teaching some kids right now...second block?

johno4 · 02/12/2007, 11:09 AM

I thought this was you! Im actually home, my arthritis in my hip is so bad I cant walk.

drbronx · 02/12/2007, 11:28 AM

I would suggest letting the tank lie fallow for 6-8 weeks before introducing fish to be sure the ich has cycled through. Also you can put some pieces of PVC pipe in the QT to give the fish places to hide to reduce stress. Also, closely monitor nitrates and change water aggressively to hold down toxicity. Make sure copper stays within therapeutic levels by frequent testing.

MarkKlier · 02/12/2007, 02:21 PM

I wrote the following a few months back. You have already isolated. If your fish are acutely ill then treat with "kick-ick" or something similar (formalin/malachite green) this can stain the seals on your isolation tank BTW.
If you can get some cycled rubble rock or sand to help cycle your tank. Once used this way with cooper it can never again be used in a reef as pointed out above.
Watch closely for secondary bacterial infections. They kill and kill quickly.

Acute ICH part 1 (IMHO)

Get isolation tank up and running. 20-30 gal. Go bare bottom. Use a primed bubble filter (that has been in your sump. If none is available start it and use some LR that you can part with. (never to be used again in reef tank)
NOW LOOK AT YOUR FISHâ€¦if working to breath or not eatingâ€¦start in isolation (see below)
Want temp at 80-82
Add coppersafe type productâ€¦do not over dose.
Have an ich therapy ready Rid-Ich since the formalin and malachite green will treat the ich that is on the fish. These are well tolerated. Copper initially suppresses the parasite.
Get Furan-2 as an antibiotic care in case a secondary infection starts.

If the fish is eating, and breathing fine (no signs of gill involvement) you can chose to try and wait it out, improve water parameters. You can try things like garlic, kick ich (kick ich is not my favoriteâ€¦but that is a long discussion) and such. Certain fish will certainly do fine with that, yellow tangs, damsels and other tougher fish. Tangs, especially hippo and powder blue may do much more poorly. You are rolling the dice on these, and they are prone to recurrences.

If the fish is under stress, working hard to breath or stops eating, you need to act and quickly. Get the fish out of the tank by catching them about 2 ours after the lights are completely out. They are asleep and easier to catch. Then get them into isolation and drop the salinity to 1020 almost immediately. By the next morning you can safely drop it to 1015-1017. This decreases the work for the fish (true hyposalinity treatment is at 1010-1012) which can be very hard on the fish if you are not careful, and you do not need to do that yet.

Now go read ICH 1 and ICH 2 from reef keeping magazine great source of information

02/12/2007, 08:55 AM	#1
yaya2930 Moved On Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: kendall , n.y. Posts: 74	Ick problem...HELP!! Hi folks, First, I can't believe how great this community is! I'm so glad I found this website. Second, I need help. I had an ick outbreak a few weeks ago when I bought a blue hippo. I immediately got Kick-Ick and started treating with the "heavy outbreak" dosage instructions. That seemed to work, but then when I got to the end of the treatement cycle, it came back with a vengance. Nothing has been able to touch it. I have lost the hippo, an engineering goby, two clowns, and what really seems strange, a coral banded. Losing the coral banded makes me think that it is something other than ick, but I don't know what it could be. We are upgrading to a 120, so I moved all the fish to a hospital tank and started treating with copper safe. The sailfin currently has white spots and cloudy eyes. Everyone else is a little skittish, but seems okay. I really don't want to lose any more fish, so if anyone has any ideas if it could be somehting else please let me know. Also, I have the inverts and live rock in a seperate tank at the moment as we will be getting the new tank tonight. Can I put the rock into the new tank? How about any of the water (not the copper treated water) to help seed the tank? I really don't know what to do so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

02/12/2007, 09:25 AM	#2
jfl14609 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Brockport, ny Posts: 4,940	Are the fish eating? __________________ Everyone watch carefully someone is about to say something really funny! Current Tank Info: 210 gallon reef

02/12/2007, 10:11 AM	#6
SkiFletch Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: N Buffalo, NY Posts: 3,665	As long as you go a month without any fish in there, yes __________________ You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take. Dare to dream Mike, aka Fletch Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef

02/12/2007, 09:38 AM	#3
johno4 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,526	If you have the 120 I would set it up with the rock, sand and other inverts and leave that tank setup just like that with no fish for at least 1 month. Any ick on your rocks ext. will run through its life cycle and die. Leave your fish in the hosp. tank treating with the copper again for at least a month. Remember to buy a test kit and measure your level of copper, to much will kill your fish. If the fish are eating feed several small meals and soak the food in garlic and selecon. thats what i would do

02/12/2007, 09:58 AM	#4
bjromaine Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Clifton Springs, New York Posts: 737	Don't put any LR that has been subjected to copper in the new tank!!!!

02/12/2007, 10:06 AM	#5
yaya2930 Moved On Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: kendall , n.y. Posts: 74	nope, no live rock is in the hospital tank. that is seperate. should i use any of the old water (not water from the hospital tank...water from the rocks and inverts) or start completely fresh?

02/12/2007, 10:34 AM	#8
johno4 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,526	I agree with nate use new sand.

02/12/2007, 10:39 AM	#9
yaya2930 Moved On Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: kendall , n.y. Posts: 74	Thanks for the help, everyone. Oh, and John04, shouldn't you be teaching some kids right now...second block?

02/12/2007, 11:09 AM	#10
johno4 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,526	I thought this was you! Im actually home, my arthritis in my hip is so bad I cant walk.

02/12/2007, 11:28 AM	#11
drbronx Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Endwell, NY Posts: 2,135	I would suggest letting the tank lie fallow for 6-8 weeks before introducing fish to be sure the ich has cycled through. Also you can put some pieces of PVC pipe in the QT to give the fish places to hide to reduce stress. Also, closely monitor nitrates and change water aggressively to hold down toxicity. Make sure copper stays within therapeutic levels by frequent testing.

02/12/2007, 02:21 PM	#12
MarkKlier Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 1,568	I wrote the following a few months back. You have already isolated. If your fish are acutely ill then treat with "kick-ick" or something similar (formalin/malachite green) this can stain the seals on your isolation tank BTW. If you can get some cycled rubble rock or sand to help cycle your tank. Once used this way with cooper it can never again be used in a reef as pointed out above. Watch closely for secondary bacterial infections. They kill and kill quickly. Acute ICH part 1 (IMHO) Get isolation tank up and running. 20-30 gal. Go bare bottom. Use a primed bubble filter (that has been in your sump. If none is available start it and use some LR that you can part with. (never to be used again in reef tank) NOW LOOK AT YOUR FISHâ€¦if working to breath or not eatingâ€¦start in isolation (see below) Want temp at 80-82 Add coppersafe type productâ€¦do not over dose. Have an ich therapy ready Rid-Ich since the formalin and malachite green will treat the ich that is on the fish. These are well tolerated. Copper initially suppresses the parasite. Get Furan-2 as an antibiotic care in case a secondary infection starts. If the fish is eating, and breathing fine (no signs of gill involvement) you can chose to try and wait it out, improve water parameters. You can try things like garlic, kick ich (kick ich is not my favoriteâ€¦but that is a long discussion) and such. Certain fish will certainly do fine with that, yellow tangs, damsels and other tougher fish. Tangs, especially hippo and powder blue may do much more poorly. You are rolling the dice on these, and they are prone to recurrences. If the fish is under stress, working hard to breath or stops eating, you need to act and quickly. Get the fish out of the tank by catching them about 2 ours after the lights are completely out. They are asleep and easier to catch. Then get them into isolation and drop the salinity to 1020 almost immediately. By the next morning you can safely drop it to 1015-1017. This decreases the work for the fish (true hyposalinity treatment is at 1010-1012) which can be very hard on the fish if you are not careful, and you do not need to do that yet. Now go read ICH 1 and ICH 2 from reef keeping magazine great source of information