How many fish??

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 03:43 PM

I have a 65 G reef....100 lbs of LR, currently have a true perc, and a bicolor pseudo....how many more fish can I add to this system? Most likely going to add a Copper Banded Butterfly to control some of my aptasia as well....

Bill Boy · 01/20/2008, 03:56 PM

I don't know much about Butterfly's, but I would add some peppermint shrimp instead. The amount of fish you can add mostly depends on their size. I like to add small fish so there's more movemetn in the tank.

clsanchez77 · 01/20/2008, 04:09 PM

The rules of thumb on how many fish a system can support are garbage. It is really a matter of your systems capabilities and your skill level. I like fewer fish, some like more fish. Some people can get by with many fish in a 65 and do fine, others do poorly. The fish you try to mix, due to different territorial natures, is just as much of an issue, if not more, than bio-load.

Honeslty, you would be better off reporting back with a list of fish you like to keep and then the board can comment on compatibility issues with your list. This is much easier than a how many more type of question. I like using www.fishbase.com to research various fish.

For example, I have a school of Atlantic Blue Chromis and plan on adding a mated pair of Caribbean Reef Butterflyfish, a pair of Neon Gobies and a single other fish, either a Red-spotted Hawkfish (the Caribbean Hawkfish) or a Flamefish (the Caribbean Cardinalfish).

Regarding the Copper Banded Butterfly, they will eat the aptasia but are slightly difficult to keep and may tend to eat other corals as well. I have always stayed away from them. If you go this route, you will want to find out what else they eat and make sure you are provided this food source.

Having said that, I also have an aiptasia problem and have added some Bergia Nudibranchs. I wont know how effective this is for a couple of months though. Now may tank is setup as a Gulf of Mexico biotope. So, I plan on adding a pair of Atlantic Reef Butterflyfish. These are about the same difficult level as the Copper Banded Butterflyfish and also eat aiptasia...and come with a risk of eating sps and gorgonia polyps. Luckily, my tanks is LPS dominated. I have done my research and am planning to start culturing amphipods and added fish eggs to my tanks daily feedings to prepare for these fish arrival.

Regarding peppermint shrimp, my experience is that they will eat the daughter aiptasia, but do little to make a dent in the established populations. However, they are eating well and have now spawned three times in my tanks.

Back to you...What is your clown hosting in? Would getting it a mate be an option? That would be cool. Also, I dont know if Copper banded butterfly's will form a mated pair in an aquarium like the Reef Butterflys tend to do, but that would be cool also.

Chris

Tommy3492 · 01/20/2008, 04:13 PM

i think the copper band butterfly will be to much of a hassel, apparently from some sites ive read they are hard to feed, and you should only keep them in large reef tank, butterflys are known to eat coral...

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 05:01 PM

I have had the CBB in the past and didnt have any trouble with it. My reason for getting in the past was due to aptasia as well, and I didnt have a problem feeding it Mysis/brine shrimp.

I am planning on getting another true perc to try to form a pair of those. I am looking into an anemone because I have a great location for it in my tank (if I can get it to stay in that spot) and would like the clowns to have a nice place to stay. Anyone have an idea as to what the best anemone is to host clownfish?

Other fish I am looking at:
Goby
Powder Blue Tang
Blue Mandarin

Swanwillow · 01/20/2008, 05:50 PM

skip the mandarin and the tang.. the tang gets too large for the bioload to handle (should be in a 120 gallon tank) and the mandarin will starve for lack of food (pods)

If you have 2 clowns, a CBB, and a bicolor, you might beable to do something small, like a small goby, and thats it. MAYBE 2 gobies.

Swanwillow · 01/20/2008, 05:51 PM

on a side note, I have a 75 gallon, that is going to be a goby tank. Gobies are fun, low bioload, and you can have a great many in the 65 gallon tank range.

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 06:09 PM

What else can I feed the Mandarin other than what it scavenges from the tank? I really wanted to get that Blue Mandarin. I can skip the tang, but would like to have some other options....

a few chromis' I was also considering, do you think the bioload on the tank would be too much?

camlov2 · 01/20/2008, 06:10 PM

I have a bicolor "royal" pseudo in a 29 gallon tank. I will warn you that I tried to add another fish (6 line wrasse) and royal attacked him consistantly. Read up on royal and the fish that he won't get along with, he might be one of your bigger problems.

Brian

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 06:13 PM

thanks camlov.....I will keep an eye on him.....he is pretty small right now, so was hoping that would help....I had heard that they were occasionally a problem before I got him. he seems pretty shy so far.

Swanwillow · 01/20/2008, 06:19 PM

thats the problem with mandarins-thats about all they eat. You can ATTEMPT to have a grow out tank for pods,and even order starter cultures of tiger pods, but the food source will quickly dwindle in a tank the size of (ours).

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 06:28 PM

Well, I will do some further research on that. thank you for the heads up on that. I have a fuge area in the sump, will that add any value for the Mandarin?

camlov2 · 01/20/2008, 06:53 PM

My first fish was my Ocellaris, 2nd was Royal. The clown seemed to own the tank and Royal was pretty shy (hiding in the rocks when I came around).....until I tried to add the third fish. Then he started his attack. The clown actually tried to get between them to protect the third fish.

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 06:56 PM

LOL....thats pretty funny....

What is the best kind of Anemone to host a couple of clowns? guess I am looking for something that I can fit within about a 4" hole in a piece of LR

thor32766 · 01/20/2008, 07:11 PM

go with a BTA.

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 07:28 PM

LOL....um, cant say I know what a BTA is off the top of my head....(embarrassing)

Swanwillow · 01/20/2008, 08:05 PM

bubble tip anemone. lower light needing, come in pretty colors, and most clowns will adapt to being hosted by the anemone.

Swanwillow · 01/20/2008, 08:05 PM

^not NO light needing, its just on the lower end of lighting needs for anemone's-which is still high.

sorry, had to clarify

Moosetache · 01/20/2008, 08:18 PM

thank you swan....I actually have quite a bit of lighting, so I hope that they can handle a lot as well....

clsanchez77 · 01/21/2008, 01:51 PM

Also, after your research on the Mandarin, if you decide to grow out the pods in the tank and get the Mandarin, you will need to make sure there are not other fish/critters in the tank that would eat the pods. This would include many of the gobies, the chromis, butterflys, any other fish that 'picks' and most crustaceons (shrimps and crabs). They really need to have the tank planned around them to have a chance.

I really like the idea of two percula clowns in a BTA. Also, already have a pseudochromis. Gobies was an excellent suggestion. May I also suggest looking at some of the hawkfish? A mated pair of the smaller gobies and a single hawkfish would be an excellent fish stock list.

Chris

Chris

01/20/2008, 03:43 PM	#1
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	How many fish?? I have a 65 G reef....100 lbs of LR, currently have a true perc, and a bicolor pseudo....how many more fish can I add to this system? Most likely going to add a Copper Banded Butterfly to control some of my aptasia as well....

01/20/2008, 04:09 PM	#3
clsanchez77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Metairie, La Posts: 822	Difficult question to answer appropriately... The rules of thumb on how many fish a system can support are garbage. It is really a matter of your systems capabilities and your skill level. I like fewer fish, some like more fish. Some people can get by with many fish in a 65 and do fine, others do poorly. The fish you try to mix, due to different territorial natures, is just as much of an issue, if not more, than bio-load. Honeslty, you would be better off reporting back with a list of fish you like to keep and then the board can comment on compatibility issues with your list. This is much easier than a how many more type of question. I like using www.fishbase.com to research various fish. For example, I have a school of Atlantic Blue Chromis and plan on adding a mated pair of Caribbean Reef Butterflyfish, a pair of Neon Gobies and a single other fish, either a Red-spotted Hawkfish (the Caribbean Hawkfish) or a Flamefish (the Caribbean Cardinalfish). Regarding the Copper Banded Butterfly, they will eat the aptasia but are slightly difficult to keep and may tend to eat other corals as well. I have always stayed away from them. If you go this route, you will want to find out what else they eat and make sure you are provided this food source. Having said that, I also have an aiptasia problem and have added some Bergia Nudibranchs. I wont know how effective this is for a couple of months though. Now may tank is setup as a Gulf of Mexico biotope. So, I plan on adding a pair of Atlantic Reef Butterflyfish. These are about the same difficult level as the Copper Banded Butterflyfish and also eat aiptasia...and come with a risk of eating sps and gorgonia polyps. Luckily, my tanks is LPS dominated. I have done my research and am planning to start culturing amphipods and added fish eggs to my tanks daily feedings to prepare for these fish arrival. Regarding peppermint shrimp, my experience is that they will eat the daughter aiptasia, but do little to make a dent in the established populations. However, they are eating well and have now spawned three times in my tanks. Back to you...What is your clown hosting in? Would getting it a mate be an option? That would be cool. Also, I dont know if Copper banded butterfly's will form a mated pair in an aquarium like the Reef Butterflys tend to do, but that would be cool also. Chris

01/20/2008, 05:50 PM	#6
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	skip the mandarin and the tang.. the tang gets too large for the bioload to handle (should be in a 120 gallon tank) and the mandarin will starve for lack of food (pods) If you have 2 clowns, a CBB, and a bicolor, you might beable to do something small, like a small goby, and thats it. MAYBE 2 gobies. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

01/20/2008, 05:51 PM	#7
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	on a side note, I have a 75 gallon, that is going to be a goby tank. Gobies are fun, low bioload, and you can have a great many in the 65 gallon tank range. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

01/20/2008, 06:19 PM	#11
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	thats the problem with mandarins-thats about all they eat. You can ATTEMPT to have a grow out tank for pods,and even order starter cultures of tiger pods, but the food source will quickly dwindle in a tank the size of (ours). __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

01/20/2008, 03:56 PM	#2
Bill Boy Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 166	I don't know much about Butterfly's, but I would add some peppermint shrimp instead. The amount of fish you can add mostly depends on their size. I like to add small fish so there's more movemetn in the tank.

01/20/2008, 04:13 PM	#4
Tommy3492 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 266	i think the copper band butterfly will be to much of a hassel, apparently from some sites ive read they are hard to feed, and you should only keep them in large reef tank, butterflys are known to eat coral...

01/20/2008, 05:01 PM	#5
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	I have had the CBB in the past and didnt have any trouble with it. My reason for getting in the past was due to aptasia as well, and I didnt have a problem feeding it Mysis/brine shrimp. I am planning on getting another true perc to try to form a pair of those. I am looking into an anemone because I have a great location for it in my tank (if I can get it to stay in that spot) and would like the clowns to have a nice place to stay. Anyone have an idea as to what the best anemone is to host clownfish? Other fish I am looking at: Goby Powder Blue Tang Blue Mandarin

01/20/2008, 06:09 PM	#8
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	What else can I feed the Mandarin other than what it scavenges from the tank? I really wanted to get that Blue Mandarin. I can skip the tang, but would like to have some other options.... a few chromis' I was also considering, do you think the bioload on the tank would be too much?

01/20/2008, 06:10 PM	#9
camlov2 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 551	I have a bicolor "royal" pseudo in a 29 gallon tank. I will warn you that I tried to add another fish (6 line wrasse) and royal attacked him consistantly. Read up on royal and the fish that he won't get along with, he might be one of your bigger problems. Brian

01/20/2008, 06:13 PM	#10
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	thanks camlov.....I will keep an eye on him.....he is pretty small right now, so was hoping that would help....I had heard that they were occasionally a problem before I got him. he seems pretty shy so far.

01/20/2008, 06:28 PM	#12
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	Well, I will do some further research on that. thank you for the heads up on that. I have a fuge area in the sump, will that add any value for the Mandarin?

01/20/2008, 06:53 PM	#13
camlov2 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 551	My first fish was my Ocellaris, 2nd was Royal. The clown seemed to own the tank and Royal was pretty shy (hiding in the rocks when I came around).....until I tried to add the third fish. Then he started his attack. The clown actually tried to get between them to protect the third fish.

01/20/2008, 06:56 PM	#14
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	LOL....thats pretty funny.... What is the best kind of Anemone to host a couple of clowns? guess I am looking for something that I can fit within about a 4" hole in a piece of LR

01/20/2008, 07:11 PM	#15
thor32766 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chuluota, FL Posts: 6,072	go with a BTA. __________________ "Live your life so no one has to lie about who you were at your funeral" click on my red house to see my tang compound! Current Tank Info: 29 gallon in Wall!

01/20/2008, 07:28 PM	#16
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	LOL....um, cant say I know what a BTA is off the top of my head....(embarrassing)

01/20/2008, 08:05 PM	#17
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	bubble tip anemone. lower light needing, come in pretty colors, and most clowns will adapt to being hosted by the anemone. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

01/20/2008, 08:18 PM	#19
Moosetache Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 552	thank you swan....I actually have quite a bit of lighting, so I hope that they can handle a lot as well....

01/21/2008, 01:51 PM	#20
clsanchez77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Metairie, La Posts: 822	Also, after your research on the Mandarin, if you decide to grow out the pods in the tank and get the Mandarin, you will need to make sure there are not other fish/critters in the tank that would eat the pods. This would include many of the gobies, the chromis, butterflys, any other fish that 'picks' and most crustaceons (shrimps and crabs). They really need to have the tank planned around them to have a chance. I really like the idea of two percula clowns in a BTA. Also, already have a pseudochromis. Gobies was an excellent suggestion. May I also suggest looking at some of the hawkfish? A mated pair of the smaller gobies and a single hawkfish would be an excellent fish stock list. Chris Chris