Frogspawn help PLEASE

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 03:40 PM

Ok, so I don't know what I am missing here (other then the salt change) but my frog spawn just refuses to expand anymore. Here is what I know, any ideas for what I don't ?

29G with AC100 HOB, bag of carbon, bag of Phosban, filter floss

Parameters: (these were taken today, I have a water change ready to go but I wanted to see what they were before the change).
PH: 8.4
Temp 78.5
SG 1.024
Am 0
NI 0
NA 0
Phos 0- 0.025 (it was tough to tell, somewhere in the middle)
Calc 380

I started the tank on Instant Ocean salt, a few weeks ago the lfs was out and I picked up a small pack of Red Sea salt. I used it for about 3 weeks (5g changes a week). After I changed salt the tank seemed to go downhill, Zoas were bleaching out, not opening as much. I did a 10G change last week with IO again and the Zoas seem happier with it but the FS still doesn't want to come back to normal.

Tank mates, blue leg hermits, emerald crab, snails, Candy canes, Zoas, Xenia, Favia. Nothing near the FS.

Any ideas ?

snorvich · 05/29/2009, 03:44 PM

What are you measuring your SG with?

andywe · 05/29/2009, 03:46 PM

Ok, first off, what is your Kh (Alkalinity)

Your Calcium is low, try to get your Ca up to 450ppm. With corals, especially SPS and LPS, Calcium is a major factor in their growth.

Ca, ALK, and Mg (Magnesium) have a symbiotic relation in a tanks ability to have Calcium available in suspension for the corals while having the ability to keep the PH up.

Are there any other things that have changed besides the salt? Do you supplement with anything? Do you feed Phytoplankton to the tank?

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 03:50 PM

Measuring SG with refract.
Alk guessing is 2.0 (API test kit, range is 1.7 to 2.8)

I have been adding 1 cap of Kent Photoplex and 1 cap of Kent Coral Vite once a week since day one. Other then that no supliments.
FTS:

tipmoff · 05/29/2009, 03:55 PM

+1 with andywe on the calcium. You need to get the calcium up to somewhere near 450. SPS need it to be healthy. I would first bring that up and see the results.

thegrun · 05/29/2009, 03:57 PM

I would take a look at your magnesium levels, as stated above, if they are low it will affect your frog spawn. I would also increase your calcium to 400-420. For me 450 is a little high, I have to clean my impellers too frequently at 450.

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 04:01 PM

Suggestions for raising the Calc ?. I will measure after my water change but do you think it could have been a result of the other salt mix not being enough for the tank ?

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 04:45 PM

After the 5g Water change Calc is reading 420.

1602reefer · 05/29/2009, 04:59 PM

Don't know about the salt... but do you have it in a high flow area? They usually like low flow, not no flow, low flow. I see you have Koralia's, What size are they? I have a pretty good size frogspawn and i had to move it from the center of the tank to one of the sides to have enough flow in the dead spots of my tank.

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 05:06 PM

It started out in a high flow area and I moved it to the center with some rock protection on both sides. It's not in the lowest flow area but it's pretty low.

1602reefer · 05/29/2009, 05:17 PM

I would say it's probably the flow. Adjust that and see if it works... they are pretty hardy LPS unless you damage the flesh on the polyp head. I had crazy high alkalinity once and it didn't seem to effect it at all.

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 05:23 PM

I just moved it into what it probably the lowest flow in my tank. I'll see how it does there.

iFisch · 05/29/2009, 05:39 PM

+2 for calcium & alkalinity.

Get a 2-part dosing/buffering system. I use Brightwell Code A&B.

Also, if it's new, sometimes it takes a day or two or three to adjust to flow/lighting change.

Mine gets WIDE open when I turn off the pumps for feeding. But its still relatively wide with the pumps on. I have it sticking in my sand bed, in front of an over hang.

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iFisch
+2 for calcium & alkalinity.

Get a 2-part dosing/buffering system. I use Brightwell Code A&B.

Also, if it's new, sometimes it takes a day or two or three to adjust to flow/lighting change.

Mine gets WIDE open when I turn off the pumps for feeding. But its still relatively wide with the pumps on. I have it sticking in my sand bed, in front of an over hang.

I will get some 2 part this weekend and give that a try.
Mine will still feed if I turn off the pums and offer it mysis. I just moved it down to the sand bed under a bit of an overhang. I will see if that helps.

andywe · 05/29/2009, 06:13 PM

Hey,

Brightwell 2 part is good stuff, just can get pricey at times. I use alot of Brightwell stuff. If your Budget conscious, then the BRS 2 part system (I use it on my small tanks, bug tank has calc reactor) works really well.

As far as calcium levels, thre is great debate about it at time. Me..I run a fair amount of SPS and LPS and keep ym Calc around 500 with no calc builup. Jsut goo coralline growth. the key is keeping a good balance of your ALK, MG, and Ca. I run 11-12 dkh on my ALK.

Instant Ocean salt has less calcium than Reef Crystals, Red sea, or Oceanic. I use Oceanic or IO Reef Crytals. the IO salt is balanced more for fowlr tanks. Now this is not a big deal, so don;t go running out to get more salt mix..just make sure you add Calc to your change water so that the water you add has the proper levels :-)

It was not too long ago that all we has was regular old Instant Ocean. Your jsut doing the old way :-)

iFisch · 05/29/2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andywe
Hey,

Brightwell 2 part is good stuff, just can get pricey at times. I use alot of Brightwell stuff. If your Budget conscious, then the BRS 2 part system (I use it on my small tanks, bug tank has calc reactor) works really well.

It can be. I get the stuff for $7 a bottle. So $14 for A&B. But they seem to offer a high-quality product. I also use other things in their line, like the new zeo stuff (Microbacter7 and reef fuel)

Felix T Cat · 05/29/2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Instant Ocean salt has less calcium than Reef Crystals, Red sea, or Oceanic. I use Oceanic or IO Reef Crytals. the IO salt is balanced more for fowlr tanks. Now this is not a big deal, so don;t go running out to get more salt mix..just make sure you add Calc to your change water so that the water you add has the proper levels :-)

It was not too long ago that all we has was regular old Instant Ocean. Your jsut doing the old way :-) [/B]

Sorry, By IO I meant Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. LOL, didn't even know IO made anything but. I may get another ALK test kit tomorrow as well. This one I just realized is by Red Sea and says high is 3.6 ? I'm not sure WTH it is in relation to everybody telling me 10-11.

iFisch · 05/29/2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Felix T Cat
Sorry, By IO I meant Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. LOL, didn't even know IO made anything but. I may get another ALK test kit tomorrow as well. This one I just realized is by Red Sea and says high is 3.6 ? I'm not sure WTH it is in relation to everybody telling me 10-11.

I've seen some IO test kits and IO supplements.

05/29/2009, 03:40 PM	#1
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	Frogspawn help PLEASE Ok, so I don't know what I am missing here (other then the salt change) but my frog spawn just refuses to expand anymore. Here is what I know, any ideas for what I don't ? 29G with AC100 HOB, bag of carbon, bag of Phosban, filter floss Parameters: (these were taken today, I have a water change ready to go but I wanted to see what they were before the change). PH: 8.4 Temp 78.5 SG 1.024 Am 0 NI 0 NA 0 Phos 0- 0.025 (it was tough to tell, somewhere in the middle) Calc 380 I started the tank on Instant Ocean salt, a few weeks ago the lfs was out and I picked up a small pack of Red Sea salt. I used it for about 3 weeks (5g changes a week). After I changed salt the tank seemed to go downhill, Zoas were bleaching out, not opening as much. I did a 10G change last week with IO again and the Zoas seem happier with it but the FS still doesn't want to come back to normal. Tank mates, blue leg hermits, emerald crab, snails, Candy canes, Zoas, Xenia, Favia. Nothing near the FS. Any ideas ?

05/29/2009, 03:44 PM	#2
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	What are you measuring your SG with? __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

05/29/2009, 03:55 PM	#5
tipmoff Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 430	+1 with andywe on the calcium. You need to get the calcium up to somewhere near 450. SPS need it to be healthy. I would first bring that up and see the results. __________________ "When I was a boy the Dead Sea was only sick. ." Member T.B.R.C. Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon Mixed Reef

05/29/2009, 04:59 PM	#9
1602reefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 93	Don't know about the salt... but do you have it in a high flow area? They usually like low flow, not no flow, low flow. I see you have Koralia's, What size are they? I have a pretty good size frogspawn and i had to move it from the center of the tank to one of the sides to have enough flow in the dead spots of my tank. __________________ want to learn. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef tank, 4 x 54 watt t5 light, 60+ lbs of figi live rock, backpack2 skimmer, 2 korallia 3's.

05/29/2009, 05:17 PM	#11
1602reefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 93	I would say it's probably the flow. Adjust that and see if it works... they are pretty hardy LPS unless you damage the flesh on the polyp head. I had crazy high alkalinity once and it didn't seem to effect it at all. __________________ want to learn. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef tank, 4 x 54 watt t5 light, 60+ lbs of figi live rock, backpack2 skimmer, 2 korallia 3's.

05/29/2009, 03:46 PM	#3
andywe Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mt Juliet, TN Posts: 1,995	Ok, first off, what is your Kh (Alkalinity) Your Calcium is low, try to get your Ca up to 450ppm. With corals, especially SPS and LPS, Calcium is a major factor in their growth. Ca, ALK, and Mg (Magnesium) have a symbiotic relation in a tanks ability to have Calcium available in suspension for the corals while having the ability to keep the PH up. Are there any other things that have changed besides the salt? Do you supplement with anything? Do you feed Phytoplankton to the tank?

05/29/2009, 03:50 PM	#4
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	Measuring SG with refract. Alk guessing is 2.0 (API test kit, range is 1.7 to 2.8) I have been adding 1 cap of Kent Photoplex and 1 cap of Kent Coral Vite once a week since day one. Other then that no supliments. FTS:

05/29/2009, 03:57 PM	#6
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I would take a look at your magnesium levels, as stated above, if they are low it will affect your frog spawn. I would also increase your calcium to 400-420. For me 450 is a little high, I have to clean my impellers too frequently at 450.

05/29/2009, 04:01 PM	#7
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	Suggestions for raising the Calc ?. I will measure after my water change but do you think it could have been a result of the other salt mix not being enough for the tank ?

05/29/2009, 04:45 PM	#8
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	After the 5g Water change Calc is reading 420.

05/29/2009, 05:06 PM	#10
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	It started out in a high flow area and I moved it to the center with some rock protection on both sides. It's not in the lowest flow area but it's pretty low.

05/29/2009, 05:23 PM	#12
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	I just moved it into what it probably the lowest flow in my tank. I'll see how it does there.

05/29/2009, 05:39 PM	#13
iFisch Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: FL Posts: 3,068	+2 for calcium & alkalinity. Get a 2-part dosing/buffering system. I use Brightwell Code A&B. Also, if it's new, sometimes it takes a day or two or three to adjust to flow/lighting change. Mine gets WIDE open when I turn off the pumps for feeding. But its still relatively wide with the pumps on. I have it sticking in my sand bed, in front of an over hang.

05/29/2009, 06:13 PM	#15
andywe Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mt Juliet, TN Posts: 1,995	Hey, Brightwell 2 part is good stuff, just can get pricey at times. I use alot of Brightwell stuff. If your Budget conscious, then the BRS 2 part system (I use it on my small tanks, bug tank has calc reactor) works really well. As far as calcium levels, thre is great debate about it at time. Me..I run a fair amount of SPS and LPS and keep ym Calc around 500 with no calc builup. Jsut goo coralline growth. the key is keeping a good balance of your ALK, MG, and Ca. I run 11-12 dkh on my ALK. Instant Ocean salt has less calcium than Reef Crystals, Red sea, or Oceanic. I use Oceanic or IO Reef Crytals. the IO salt is balanced more for fowlr tanks. Now this is not a big deal, so don;t go running out to get more salt mix..just make sure you add Calc to your change water so that the water you add has the proper levels :-) It was not too long ago that all we has was regular old Instant Ocean. Your jsut doing the old way :-)