Sand bed in Refugium?

educom · 12/28/2009, 07:47 PM

I have a 75g reef tank that is 13 months old. I just installed an 18g refugium located above the DT using gravity for the return to the DT. The guy at the LFS recommended no sand bottom at all and only minimal LR so I can easily vacuum the glass bottom from detritus. Is this good advice?

I had previously read in many posts that recommend a deep sand bed, so I already bought sufficient live sand to support 4"-5" sand bed, leaving another 10"-12" to the top of the tank for chaeto to grow. I also bought about 10-12 lbs of live rock to place in the fuge. I was under the impression that the DSB and additional live rock would help with nitrates, though it may have a minimal effect compared to the overall capacity of the DT.

My main goal of the fuge is to grow chaeto to reduce nitrates/phosphates and to harvest pods to ultimately get and maintain a mandarin. So ... what are the pro's and con's of implementing a deep sand bed in my fuge? Should I go with a glass bottom, a DSB, or a shallow sand bed?

Anxiously waiting for guidance!

jenjen · 12/28/2009, 08:28 PM

I would steer clear of live rock in the fuge, since you don't have enough space to put large pieces. Small pieces (rock rubble) can become a detrius trap and actually contribute to rather than reduce nitrates - it's the deep, oxygen-deprived parts of live rock that actually help reduce nitrate. You could add a couple of pieces if you wanted to, more for esthetic reasons than function.

I'm not sure on the pros/cons on a sand bed in the fuge. I personally have one but if I were to do it again I would remove it and have a bare bottom chaeto-only fuge, for the reasons given to you by your LFS. Most of my pods live in the chaeto anyway.

bertoni · 12/28/2009, 08:32 PM

For such a small refugium, I'd just light it and add Chaetomorpha. I don't think the live sand bed will do all that much. An inch for looks would be fine, and might support a few more animals.

Gilbert46 · 12/28/2009, 11:56 PM

I'm surprised at the answers. I just took down my fuge from my last tank, It was 20g with a 6'' DSB, rubble and chaeto over the top. I never had a problem with detritus in the fuge or water quality. I did run 600gph gently via a spray bar. When taking it down it was spotless and full of pods and critters, I never cleaned it, occasionally I would kill aptasia only. I figure everything in the tank will equalize within reason, the chaeto and pods will grow to a population limited by available nutrients and sustain.

90GalFOWLR · 12/29/2009, 09:59 AM

I just set up my sump system a month ago, I have the same setup you described I have about 2" sand, 5-10lbs rubble, and Chaeto. Hopefully it doesnt contribute to nitrates. I am at 0, but I dont want it to go up.

Jeff · 12/29/2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbert46

I'm surprised at the answers. I just took down my fuge from my last tank, It was 20g with a 6'' DSB, rubble and chaeto over the top. I never had a problem with detritus in the fuge or water quality. I did run 600gph gently via a spray bar. When taking it down it was spotless and full of pods and critters, I never cleaned it, occasionally I would kill aptasia only. I figure everything in the tank will equalize within reason, the chaeto and pods will grow to a population limited by available nutrients and sustain.

I agree, sand, rocks, clean up crew and macro algae will help balance out your reason for having a fuge. I have all of these things in my fuge and have never had a problem either with detritus. I usually drain the fuge anyway for water changes though.

ashtroid · 05/26/2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by educom

I have a 75g reef tank that is 13 months old. I just installed an 18g refugium located above the DT using gravity for the return to the DT. The guy at the LFS recommended no sand bottom at all and only minimal LR so I can easily vacuum the glass bottom from detritus. Is this good advice?

I had previously read in many posts that recommend a deep sand bed, so I already bought sufficient live sand to support 4"-5" sand bed, leaving another 10"-12" to the top of the tank for chaeto to grow. I also bought about 10-12 lbs of live rock to place in the fuge. I was under the impression that the DSB and additional live rock would help with nitrates, though it may have a minimal effect compared to the overall capacity of the DT.

My main goal of the fuge is to grow chaeto to reduce nitrates/phosphates and to harvest pods to ultimately get and maintain a mandarin. So ... what are the pro's and con's of implementing a deep sand bed in my fuge? Should I go with a glass bottom, a DSB, or a shallow sand bed?

Anxiously waiting for guidance!

my only quarrel with a sand in fuge is if you decide to put your return in the fuge....my buddy did it and come home one day and his fuge was sandless and all of his corals rocks were smothered and a few fish died of stress.....so be careful i do not have sand in mine just BIG pieces of live rock but mine goes from sump into seperate tank(fuge) and back into sump.

karaandnick · 05/27/2010, 12:02 AM

i use miracle mud in my refugium at about 3" and a few snails I replace some of it every year and I have never had a problem.

veocool · 05/27/2010, 03:57 PM

Set up my 1st fuge with live sand, liverock, chaeto and love it. The microfauna will help with the detritus. Mine's approx 15 gal.

RileyLAFD · 09/18/2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbert46

I'm surprised at the answers. I just took down my fuge from my last tank, It was 20g with a 6'' DSB, rubble and chaeto over the top. I never had a problem with detritus in the fuge or water quality. I did run 600gph gently via a spray bar. When taking it down it was spotless and full of pods and critters, I never cleaned it, occasionally I would kill aptasia only. I figure everything in the tank will equalize within reason, the chaeto and pods will grow to a population limited by available nutrients and sustain.

My sump is 16x16x16, with the fuge being 10x10 (4 inch DSB and another 7 inches of water). In my sump I have added a few different macros and a mangrove. I cant complain and I have to agree a small sump can work!

RileyLAFD · 09/18/2013, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RileyLAFD

My sump is 16x16x16, with the fuge being 10x10 (4 inch DSB and another 7 inches of water). In my sump I have added a few different macros and a mangrove. I cant complain and I have to agree a small sump can work!

dppitone · 09/19/2013, 06:13 AM

There is no correct answer to this. I wouldn't have any tank without a sandbed, and I wouldn't have a refugium without live rock or live rubble. It's a matter of opinion. I'm a naturalist about my system. I want as much diversity and natural processes as possible. The reef has sand and rock, so that's what I do. The sand if seeded well can host many different organisms. But on the other hand, plenty of folks don't use sand and instead use bare bottom and vacuum. I think that's disgusting, but you can have the same rates of overall system success doing it either way. Just opinion. You decide, don't let the store guy decide for you - unless you want him to

To your other point, live rock does not "help" with nitrates. Rather, the bacteria in live rock expels nitrates as biproduct. You can remove nitrates by (1) water changes, and/or (2) having algae growth. Algae feeds on the nitrates - they enter the cells of the algae and thus are removed from your water.

12/28/2009, 07:47 PM	#1
educom Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 28	Sand bed in Refugium? I have a 75g reef tank that is 13 months old. I just installed an 18g refugium located above the DT using gravity for the return to the DT. The guy at the LFS recommended no sand bottom at all and only minimal LR so I can easily vacuum the glass bottom from detritus. Is this good advice? I had previously read in many posts that recommend a deep sand bed, so I already bought sufficient live sand to support 4"-5" sand bed, leaving another 10"-12" to the top of the tank for chaeto to grow. I also bought about 10-12 lbs of live rock to place in the fuge. I was under the impression that the DSB and additional live rock would help with nitrates, though it may have a minimal effect compared to the overall capacity of the DT. My main goal of the fuge is to grow chaeto to reduce nitrates/phosphates and to harvest pods to ultimately get and maintain a mandarin. So ... what are the pro's and con's of implementing a deep sand bed in my fuge? Should I go with a glass bottom, a DSB, or a shallow sand bed? Anxiously waiting for guidance!

12/28/2009, 08:28 PM	#2
jenjen Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Langley BC, Canada Posts: 1,710	I would steer clear of live rock in the fuge, since you don't have enough space to put large pieces. Small pieces (rock rubble) can become a detrius trap and actually contribute to rather than reduce nitrates - it's the deep, oxygen-deprived parts of live rock that actually help reduce nitrate. You could add a couple of pieces if you wanted to, more for esthetic reasons than function. I'm not sure on the pros/cons on a sand bed in the fuge. I personally have one but if I were to do it again I would remove it and have a bare bottom chaeto-only fuge, for the reasons given to you by your LFS. Most of my pods live in the chaeto anyway. __________________ "Challenges forge the greatness in you" Current Tank Info: 180gal softy reef (Apr '09)

12/28/2009, 08:32 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	For such a small refugium, I'd just light it and add Chaetomorpha. I don't think the live sand bed will do all that much. An inch for looks would be fine, and might support a few more animals. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/28/2009, 11:56 PM	#4
Gilbert46 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sacramento Posts: 60	I'm surprised at the answers. I just took down my fuge from my last tank, It was 20g with a 6'' DSB, rubble and chaeto over the top. I never had a problem with detritus in the fuge or water quality. I did run 600gph gently via a spray bar. When taking it down it was spotless and full of pods and critters, I never cleaned it, occasionally I would kill aptasia only. I figure everything in the tank will equalize within reason, the chaeto and pods will grow to a population limited by available nutrients and sustain.

12/29/2009, 09:59 AM	#5
90GalFOWLR Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 131	I just set up my sump system a month ago, I have the same setup you described I have about 2" sand, 5-10lbs rubble, and Chaeto. Hopefully it doesnt contribute to nitrates. I am at 0, but I dont want it to go up.

05/27/2010, 12:02 AM	#8
karaandnick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 56	i use miracle mud in my refugium at about 3" and a few snails I replace some of it every year and I have never had a problem.

05/27/2010, 03:57 PM	#9
veocool Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: ne jersey Posts: 88	Set up my 1st fuge with live sand, liverock, chaeto and love it. The microfauna will help with the detritus. Mine's approx 15 gal.

09/19/2013, 06:13 AM	#12
dppitone Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Queen Village, Phila. Posts: 1,697	There is no correct answer to this. I wouldn't have any tank without a sandbed, and I wouldn't have a refugium without live rock or live rubble. It's a matter of opinion. I'm a naturalist about my system. I want as much diversity and natural processes as possible. The reef has sand and rock, so that's what I do. The sand if seeded well can host many different organisms. But on the other hand, plenty of folks don't use sand and instead use bare bottom and vacuum. I think that's disgusting, but you can have the same rates of overall system success doing it either way. Just opinion. You decide, don't let the store guy decide for you - unless you want him to To your other point, live rock does not "help" with nitrates. Rather, the bacteria in live rock expels nitrates as biproduct. You can remove nitrates by (1) water changes, and/or (2) having algae growth. Algae feeds on the nitrates - they enter the cells of the algae and thus are removed from your water.