Refugium or Wet/Dry, what's more beneficial...

babyduke · 02/04/2010, 02:10 PM

.........for your tank? Also how do bio balls help?

Shane Hoffman · 02/04/2010, 02:29 PM

A refugeium is by far the more beneficial of the two. If you have a skimmer in your wet dry that makes the wet dry more beneficial IMO. Bio balls have for a while now been considered bad for a reef tank that has a sufficient amount of live rock.. Bio balls lead to high nitrates. All a fuge does is add extra vloume, supply a home for pods to grow with out predation, and give you a place to grow macro algae which can reduce ph swings when ran on a reverse light schedule. If you only have room for a fuge or a wet dry, I would do the wet dry so long as you can get a skimmer in it. Now if you have a HOB skimmer I would do a fuge. The nutrient export offered from running a skimmer is more important than a fuge on its own IMO.

Rensmif · 02/04/2010, 03:08 PM

I agree, the refuge is definately the way to go. A natural source of food, and filtration.

Dont think you will be happy with bio-balls.

stubby 58 · 02/04/2010, 03:08 PM

If you do use the wet/dry ditch the bio balls and replace them with chunks of live rock .

stubby

ihopss · 02/04/2010, 03:41 PM

You do not wont anything in their that is not fully submerged underwater, so in my understanding bio balls will work as live rock if it is under the water.

wab · 02/04/2010, 04:00 PM

+1 for sump/refug no bio balls

bertoni · 02/04/2010, 04:03 PM

Bio-balls are useful for heavily-stocked fish-only systems, but I agree that a refugium is much better for a reef system. The bio-balls seem to cause a higher nitrate level in a lot of systems.

lordofthereef · 02/04/2010, 05:06 PM

+1 on fuge. I would personally stay away from bioballs, but there are some that will swear by it. I believe they are the best in FO systems as has been stated. I have never seen a very successful reef using bioballs as filtration, although theoretically with nitrate export I guess it could work.

Mad_Reefer · 02/04/2010, 08:44 PM

Fuge all the way. Just make sure you light it well and add chaeto.

thegrun · 02/04/2010, 08:49 PM

The problem with bioballs is that they provide a surface for the bacteria that break down ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate (both good), but they do not provide a home for the anaerobic bacteria that break down nitrates. These bacteria require very low flow areas (found in the small pores in live rock) that bioballs do not offer. Thus live porous rock is much better for your tank than bioballs.

undrtkr_00 · 02/05/2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Hoffman

If you only have room for a fuge or a wet dry, I would do the wet dry so long as you can get a skimmer in it.

Why would you choose a wet/dry over a fuge? Isn't a wet/dry a trickle filter setup (such as bioballs)?

Fuge all the way. Many benefits.

one clownfish · 02/05/2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rensmif

I agree, the refuge is definately the way to go. A natural source of food, and filtration.

Dont think you will be happy with bio-balls.

Could not have said it any better.

Misterchinn · 02/05/2010, 08:15 PM

I'm not sure if the original poster stated whether they were doing a Fish Only (FO) or Reef tank (with inverts). For FO, as someone said above, a wet/dry using bio balls is very effective for removing ammonia, which is really bad for fish, and turning the ammonia into less harmful things like nitrate. Wet/dry filters allow people to put a lot more fish in their tanks (increased bioload). But if you do that, beware of territory battles.

The reason this isn't good for reefs is that most invertebrates (corals, shrimp, etc...) don't like nitrate, so a wet/dry is not a good choice for reefs. So that's where things like Live Rock, skimmers and refugiums come in. These are based on nature's way of dealing with wastes and are quite effective when used together.

If you're doing fish only, you can do pretty much whatever you want: wet/dry, live rock, skimmer, fuge... use in combo for best results.

For reef, add about 1# of live rock per gallon, get the biggest sump you can fit with divisions, throw a skimmer in one section, make the other section a refugium by adding chaeto and a light, put a return pump in a third section and you're good to go.

02/04/2010, 02:10 PM	#1
babyduke Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 210	Refugium or Wet/Dry, what's more beneficial... .........for your tank? Also how do bio balls help?

02/04/2010, 02:29 PM	#2
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	A refugeium is by far the more beneficial of the two. If you have a skimmer in your wet dry that makes the wet dry more beneficial IMO. Bio balls have for a while now been considered bad for a reef tank that has a sufficient amount of live rock.. Bio balls lead to high nitrates. All a fuge does is add extra vloume, supply a home for pods to grow with out predation, and give you a place to grow macro algae which can reduce ph swings when ran on a reverse light schedule. If you only have room for a fuge or a wet dry, I would do the wet dry so long as you can get a skimmer in it. Now if you have a HOB skimmer I would do a fuge. The nutrient export offered from running a skimmer is more important than a fuge on its own IMO. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

02/04/2010, 04:00 PM	#6
wab Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: nj Posts: 512	+1 for sump/refug no bio balls __________________ 1 year plus and still I DON'T KNOW!!!! LOL Current Tank Info: 45 high 30 breeder sump/refuge diy

02/04/2010, 04:03 PM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Bio-balls are useful for heavily-stocked fish-only systems, but I agree that a refugium is much better for a reef system. The bio-balls seem to cause a higher nitrate level in a lot of systems. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/04/2010, 05:06 PM	#8
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	+1 on fuge. I would personally stay away from bioballs, but there are some that will swear by it. I believe they are the best in FO systems as has been stated. I have never seen a very successful reef using bioballs as filtration, although theoretically with nitrate export I guess it could work. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

02/04/2010, 03:08 PM	#3
Rensmif Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 140	I agree, the refuge is definately the way to go. A natural source of food, and filtration. Dont think you will be happy with bio-balls.

02/04/2010, 03:08 PM	#4
stubby 58 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ama TX Posts: 217	If you do use the wet/dry ditch the bio balls and replace them with chunks of live rock . stubby

02/04/2010, 03:41 PM	#5
ihopss Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gilmer,tx Posts: 751	You do not wont anything in their that is not fully submerged underwater, so in my understanding bio balls will work as live rock if it is under the water.

02/04/2010, 08:44 PM	#9
Mad_Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 249	Fuge all the way. Just make sure you light it well and add chaeto.

02/04/2010, 08:49 PM	#10
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	The problem with bioballs is that they provide a surface for the bacteria that break down ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate (both good), but they do not provide a home for the anaerobic bacteria that break down nitrates. These bacteria require very low flow areas (found in the small pores in live rock) that bioballs do not offer. Thus live porous rock is much better for your tank than bioballs.

02/05/2010, 08:15 PM	#13
Misterchinn Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 84	I'm not sure if the original poster stated whether they were doing a Fish Only (FO) or Reef tank (with inverts). For FO, as someone said above, a wet/dry using bio balls is very effective for removing ammonia, which is really bad for fish, and turning the ammonia into less harmful things like nitrate. Wet/dry filters allow people to put a lot more fish in their tanks (increased bioload). But if you do that, beware of territory battles. The reason this isn't good for reefs is that most invertebrates (corals, shrimp, etc...) don't like nitrate, so a wet/dry is not a good choice for reefs. So that's where things like Live Rock, skimmers and refugiums come in. These are based on nature's way of dealing with wastes and are quite effective when used together. If you're doing fish only, you can do pretty much whatever you want: wet/dry, live rock, skimmer, fuge... use in combo for best results. For reef, add about 1# of live rock per gallon, get the biggest sump you can fit with divisions, throw a skimmer in one section, make the other section a refugium by adding chaeto and a light, put a return pump in a third section and you're good to go. __________________ -CC Current Tank Info: 26gal, 20 gal sump/fuge (13 gal of water) with skimmer and Chaeto, ~25#'s of LR. 1 ocellaris clown, 1 royal gramma, 2 turbo snails, 2 red legged hermit crabs. Mushroom corals and Zoathids.