Sump return pump and overflow question

nashgeeks · 10/03/2010, 07:40 PM

I am not new to the hobby but am a little new to doing it right =)

I am going from a 75 gallon tank to a 125 gallon with a 50 gallon sump. I was curious if what I am considering using for the return pump and overflow are good choices. Has anyone had experience good or bad? Am I overkilling or not enough. These are the last 2 items I have to purchase so I'd like to get it right. Below are the two choices I am looking at:

Mag Drive 18 and a continuous siphon overflow like this one:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.co...fm?pcatid=3642

Specifically looking at the 1-1/2 inch bulkehead 1600gph

Dustin1300 · 10/03/2010, 07:49 PM

I would not go with an overflow like that. The pump will go out every couple months or so and should the power go out you could have a flood. Go with one that has the u-tube design as the siphon will not break when the power goes out. Once the power goes back on the water just starts overflowing to sump as expected.

Dustin1300 · 10/03/2010, 07:53 PM

You can either go with the original design which is made by LifeReef:

http://www.lifereef.com/frame.html

-OR- the Eshopps one:

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/mer...Category_Code=

Sisterlimonpot · 10/03/2010, 07:55 PM

With a 125 your almost better to drill it, on a tank that big you don't want to skimp on the overflow, you'll be 10 times happier.

oh and:

To Reef Central

lalav02 · 10/03/2010, 07:58 PM

This type of overflow will work just fine(It's what I use, But I would suggest using the aqualifter pump with it). I have been using it for over 2 years without fail, the power goes off here every time it storms so it has been tested numerous times. Also if you have any experience drilling glass(or any friends that do) you might want to look into this http://www.reefsavvy.com/product.htm overflow. 1500G and built in return, takes up little room in the display.

Dustin1300 · 10/03/2010, 07:59 PM

....and if you go that route....Go here:

http://www.glass-holes.com/

They provide the drill bits, instructions, and overflow box to put in place. With this I'd go grab a cheap aquarium off of CL and test out some holes and make use of it in another way. Should have mentioned this other option but Sisterlimonpot kept me straight

Dustin1300 · 10/03/2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalav02

This type of overflow will work just fine(It's what I use, But I would suggest using the aqualifter pump with it). I have been using it for over 2 years without fail, the power goes off here every time it storms so it has been tested numerous times. Also if you have any experience drilling glass(or any friends that do) you might want to look into this http://www.reefsavvy.com/product.htm overflow. 1500G and built in return, takes up little room in the display.

Could not disagree more. Look at everyone's recommendations on this and the floods with the CPR overflow and aqualifter pumps. The aqualifter pump does not last and will fail...Its just a matter of when. Go with the route that you don't have to depend on a pump which will one day fail. I ran the CPR overflow for 6 months and went through two aqualifter pumps....The second having a prefilter.

lalav02 · 10/03/2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin1300

Could not disagree more. Look at everyone's recommendations on this and the floods with the CPR overflow and aqualifter pumps. The aqualifter pump does not last and will fail...Its just a matter of when. Go with the route that you don't have to depend on a pump which will one day fail. I ran the CPR overflow for 6 months and went through two aqualifter pumps....The second having a prefilter.

Maybe I just got lucky. I am in the process of upgrading to a RR tank so I hope it doesn't fail before then.

Dustin1300 · 10/03/2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalav02

Maybe I just got lucky. I am in the process of upgrading to a RR tank so I hope it doesn't fail before then.

Not trying to be rude or say you are wrong.

It is just that I have experienced otherwise as well as others so I'd rather save another reefer a headache if possible.

nashgeeks · 10/04/2010, 05:43 AM

Well thanks for the input. I believe the u-tube type is a little cheaper as well so that is bonus. I wish I could drill this tank but I already have it started and cycling. I am adding live rock just a little every week until I get the pump and overflow. I'll be putting the pump on a UPS as well hoping that will help prevent any flooding since this tank is in my living room.

Dustin1300 · 10/04/2010, 08:35 AM

Yeah...Make sure you have sufficient volume in the sump from the water coming back from the return lines. To prevent this make sure the returns are above the water line or close to. A check valve should not be relied on either. Good luck and let us know if you have any more ?s!

Palting · 10/04/2010, 08:55 AM

C'mon, guys. You are looking at this flooding thing all wrong.

Flooding is not because of the pump failing. Flooding is because you did not leave enough room in the sump to handle the water that comes down when the pump fails or if the electricity goes out.

The drains from the DT, whether it be for drilled tanks or for HOB overflows, will drain only up to a certain level. When the water gets to that level, the overflow starts sucking air, breaking the siphon in a siphon drain, or simply emptying the tubes in a gravity drain. The drain system and sump need to be set up in such a way that the sump can handle this voulme of water. In fact, what you need to do when everything is set up, is purposely shut off the pump and see if the sump can handle this volume. If the sump cannot, then you need to revise the set-up so that it can. Otherwise, you will ALWAYS be at risk for a flood.

Now, if you are talking about the drain itself failing, and the pump keeps running and overflowing the main tank, that is a different problem altogether. I would put a second HOB drain as a safety measure. That is because all drains, drilled or otherwise, can and do fail at some time.

Dustin1300 · 10/04/2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

C'mon, guys. You are looking at this flooding thing all wrong.

Flooding is not because of the pump failing. Flooding is because you did not leave enough room in the sump to handle the water that comes down when the pump fails or if the electricity goes out.

The drains from the DT, whether it be for drilled tanks or for HOB overflows, will drain only up to a certain level. When the water gets to that level, the overflow starts sucking air, breaking the siphon in a siphon drain, or simply emptying the tubes in a gravity drain. The drain system and sump need to be set up in such a way that the sump can handle this voulme of water. In fact, what you need to do when everything is set up, is purposely shut off the pump and see if the sump can handle this volume. If the sump cannot, then you need to revise the set-up so that it can. Otherwise, you will ALWAYS be at risk for a flood.

Now, if you are talking about the drain itself failing, and the pump keeps running and overflowing the main tank, that is a different problem altogether. I would put a second HOB drain as a safety measure. That is because all drains, drilled or otherwise, can and do fail at some time.

Like I stated in the latest post he needs to have enough volume in the sump to handle the drain off. In regards to the overflow....I was looking at it right. With the CPR overflow if the pump does not start back up then a siphon will not happen and you could have potential flooding if the return pumps up the sump water and overflows the DT. Safe rather than sorry with a good overflow box that does not depend on a pump. Also, the two u-tubes I mentioned have two u-tubes and two drains so we are already covered on that aspect also.

Palting · 10/04/2010, 11:14 AM

Aaah, I got it. You were talking about the airlift pump for the overflow, not the return pump, failing.

nashgeeks · 10/04/2010, 11:59 AM

I was also thinking of making my return pump sit high in my sump. That way if the siphon does break it will only pump the top third or so of my sump water. As long as my main tank can handle that much water then there will be no risk of flooding. One of these days I'll graduate to a 200+ and have it predrilled. Until then I'll enjoy my 125. I am cycling it with water from my old tank so I should be ready to move everything as soon as my mag pump and overflow box comes in.

Dustin1300 · 10/04/2010, 07:31 PM

Just make a section for the return that is relatively small and that eliminates the point of having to raise the return pump. Make it only a few gallons large on the return...

Palting, no problem as you were just wanting to help a fellow reefer

nashgeeks · 10/05/2010, 09:01 PM

Alrighty...finally pulled the trigger and got the eshopps overflow here:
https://www.petsolutions.com/Overflo...I89089014.aspx
And a mag 18 return. I've already started cycling the new tank with water from my 75 and some of the live rock so I should be good to go once I get my plumbing finished. Wish me luck!

10/03/2010, 07:40 PM	#1
nashgeeks Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4	Sump return pump and overflow question I am not new to the hobby but am a little new to doing it right =) I am going from a 75 gallon tank to a 125 gallon with a 50 gallon sump. I was curious if what I am considering using for the return pump and overflow are good choices. Has anyone had experience good or bad? Am I overkilling or not enough. These are the last 2 items I have to purchase so I'd like to get it right. Below are the two choices I am looking at: Mag Drive 18 and a continuous siphon overflow like this one: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.co...fm?pcatid=3642 Specifically looking at the 1-1/2 inch bulkehead 1600gph

10/03/2010, 07:55 PM	#4
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	With a 125 your almost better to drill it, on a tank that big you don't want to skimp on the overflow, you'll be 10 times happier. oh and: *To Reef Central* __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

10/04/2010, 08:55 AM	#12
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	C'mon, guys. You are looking at this flooding thing all wrong. Flooding is not because of the pump failing. Flooding is because you did not leave enough room in the sump to handle the water that comes down when the pump fails or if the electricity goes out. The drains from the DT, whether it be for drilled tanks or for HOB overflows, will drain only up to a certain level. When the water gets to that level, the overflow starts sucking air, breaking the siphon in a siphon drain, or simply emptying the tubes in a gravity drain. The drain system and sump need to be set up in such a way that the sump can handle this voulme of water. In fact, what you need to do when everything is set up, is purposely shut off the pump and see if the sump can handle this volume. If the sump cannot, then you need to revise the set-up so that it can. Otherwise, you will ALWAYS be at risk for a flood. Now, if you are talking about the drain itself failing, and the pump keeps running and overflowing the main tank, that is a different problem altogether. I would put a second HOB drain as a safety measure. That is because all drains, drilled or otherwise, can and do fail at some time. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam Last edited by Palting; 10/04/2010 at 09:02 AM.

10/04/2010, 11:14 AM	#14
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	Aaah, I got it. You were talking about the airlift pump for the overflow, not the return pump, failing. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Return Pumps	tcp316	Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment	3	02/17/2010 05:37 PM
LTB: overflow kit/skimmer/return pump & help needed w/ sump setup	dloveaz	Arizona - Fish & Reef Aquarium Group (FRAG)	0	02/04/2010 04:59 AM
Return pump/HOB overflow question	sage_commander	New to the Hobby	2	02/28/2009 04:41 PM
Want to buy sump, Return Pump, HOb OverFlow Box, and Plumbing.	Young Reefer 03	Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society	15	01/30/2009 03:31 PM
return pump and overflow question!! help please	littletruong	Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment	2	04/08/2008 08:14 PM

10/03/2010, 07:49 PM	#2
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	I would not go with an overflow like that. The pump will go out every couple months or so and should the power go out you could have a flood. Go with one that has the u-tube design as the siphon will not break when the power goes out. Once the power goes back on the water just starts overflowing to sump as expected.

10/03/2010, 07:53 PM	#3
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	You can either go with the original design which is made by LifeReef: http://www.lifereef.com/frame.html -OR- the Eshopps one: http://premiumaquatics.com/store/mer...Category_Code=

10/03/2010, 07:58 PM	#5
lalav02 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bay, AR Posts: 34	This type of overflow will work just fine(It's what I use, But I would suggest using the aqualifter pump with it). I have been using it for over 2 years without fail, the power goes off here every time it storms so it has been tested numerous times. Also if you have any experience drilling glass(or any friends that do) you might want to look into this http://www.reefsavvy.com/product.htm overflow. 1500G and built in return, takes up little room in the display.

10/03/2010, 07:59 PM	#6
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	....and if you go that route....Go here: http://www.glass-holes.com/ They provide the drill bits, instructions, and overflow box to put in place. With this I'd go grab a cheap aquarium off of CL and test out some holes and make use of it in another way. Should have mentioned this other option but Sisterlimonpot kept me straight

10/04/2010, 05:43 AM	#10
nashgeeks Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4	Well thanks for the input. I believe the u-tube type is a little cheaper as well so that is bonus. I wish I could drill this tank but I already have it started and cycling. I am adding live rock just a little every week until I get the pump and overflow. I'll be putting the pump on a UPS as well hoping that will help prevent any flooding since this tank is in my living room.

10/04/2010, 08:35 AM	#11
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	Yeah...Make sure you have sufficient volume in the sump from the water coming back from the return lines. To prevent this make sure the returns are above the water line or close to. A check valve should not be relied on either. Good luck and let us know if you have any more ?s!

10/04/2010, 11:59 AM	#15
nashgeeks Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4	I was also thinking of making my return pump sit high in my sump. That way if the siphon does break it will only pump the top third or so of my sump water. As long as my main tank can handle that much water then there will be no risk of flooding. One of these days I'll graduate to a 200+ and have it predrilled. Until then I'll enjoy my 125. I am cycling it with water from my old tank so I should be ready to move everything as soon as my mag pump and overflow box comes in.

10/04/2010, 07:31 PM	#16
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	Just make a section for the return that is relatively small and that eliminates the point of having to raise the return pump. Make it only a few gallons large on the return... Palting, no problem as you were just wanting to help a fellow reefer

10/05/2010, 09:01 PM	#17
nashgeeks Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4	Alrighty...finally pulled the trigger and got the eshopps overflow here: https://www.petsolutions.com/Overflo...I89089014.aspx And a mag 18 return. I've already started cycling the new tank with water from my 75 and some of the live rock so I should be good to go once I get my plumbing finished. Wish me luck!