Sump Question...What is the actual benefit?

chuckawd · 01/03/2011, 10:18 AM

I understand that a sump is good for many reasons including giving greater water volume which allows for greater dillution etc. And of course having a refugium too. But, where does the actual filtration come in? I am going from a HOB AquaClear 500 filter with sponge, carbon, and bio-media to a sump and in other sumps, I usually see no physical filtration (carbon, sponges, bioballs etc.) other than a filter sock. In my sump I will have an inlet side, fuge in the middle, and return side on the other end. I assume most people use some sort of chemical, biological, and/or other filtration in sumps and I need to know what to use and where?

Mainly, I plan to run a filter sock on the incoming water then my refugium with chaeto, LR, and DSB. How does all of this make for better filtration over canisters and actual 3 stage HOB filters?

tkeracer619 · 01/03/2011, 10:41 AM

Canisters clog up and are a pain to clean.

Sumps add water volume, a place for all the equipment, room for a larger skimmer, a place for pod populations to flourish, and room for whatever else you want to put in your fish tank.

Sumps also use an overflow to pull surface film that includes most of the DOC's that a skimmer removes. A hob pulls the water from at least a few inches under the surface.

Most people will run two media reactors as well. They can be plumbed into your return pump and drain back into the sump or have their own pumps. GFO and Carbon are the two most commonly used medias.

GFO will pull phosphates out of the water and carbon polishes the water and will remove chemicals from coral warfare. It also helps the water smell better and not so fishy.

Your live rock in your tank is the biological filter. You can also put extra rock in your sump.

A skimmer is probably one of the biggest reasons people get sumps. A great skimmer should be part of your filtration.

chuckawd · 01/03/2011, 11:25 AM

So, for filtration in a sump, most people go with reactors for the mechanical and chemical filtration? The biological filtration is typically left up to LR in the sump or bio balls maybe? Like the PhosoBan Reactor and GFO/Carbon reactor? I am just beginning my research on reactors and filter type media within sumps. I initially understood the incoming side of a sump as essentially a canister filter that water poured on top of but now I have a much greater understanding of filtration in sumps. Thanks a lot!! Off to research reactors!!

Phosphate and carbon reactors are most common for ensuring properly filtered and polished water? I was planning on using ample amounts of Cheato for reducing and hopefully eliminating phosphates and nitrates. Also, I must mention that I will be running my 20 gallon long sump on my 30 gallon system if that makes any difference.

noobtothereef · 01/03/2011, 11:34 AM

alot of people run no mechanical filtration, if they do its via filter sock. Sumps are basically an area to place a skimmer, heaters, reactors for media, auto top off equipment, etc and also a place for deritus to settle for easy removal, you also benefit from added water volume which makes your system more stable. And not many people use bio balls anymore, they become dirty and produce nitrates

chuckawd · 01/03/2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobtothereef

alot of people run no mechanical filtration, if they do its via filter sock. Sumps are basically an area to place a skimmer, heaters, reactors for media, auto top off equipment, etc and also a place for deritus to settle for easy removal, you also benefit from added water volume which makes your system more stable. And not many people use bio balls anymore, they become dirty and produce nitrates

Let's say, for example, I was to run a sump with filter sock, spill over to refugium with LR, Cheato, and DSB, spillover into return section, would it be fairly standard for me to have a GFO and Carbon reactor and if so, which chamber would be best to house the reactors?

cjones1344 · 01/03/2011, 03:06 PM

I don't know if I would say it's standard or not to have reactors, some people have them and some don't. Where you put the reactors depends on which ones you get. If you get something like the BRS reactors they don't go in the water, you mount them on a vertical surface like the walls of your stand. I have my BRS reactor mounted on the wall directly behind the stand. I would suggest feeding the reactors with water that has already been through your refugium; a lot of people have their sumps with the return in the middle and T off the drain line so that it drains into the skimmer compartment on one side of the return and the refugium on the other, then have both those compartments drain into the return. You don't really need the full sump flow going through the refugium so I would do the return in the middle. I know you didn't really ask all that, but I got started on the reactor question and figured I might as well say it all...

Beamers · 01/03/2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

A skimmer is probably one of the biggest reasons people get sumps. A great skimmer should be part of your filtration.

Indeed, without a great skimmer even a lightly stocked tank will buildup a bio load very fast.

chuckawd · 01/03/2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beamers

Indeed, without a great skimmer even a lightly stocked tank will buildup a bio load very fast.

Thanks for all of the excellent information everyone!! I should mention that, most likely, I will leave my skimmer hanging on the tank (CPR Bak-Pak 2) because of space restrictions under the tank and in the sump location. However, today I have been kicking around the idea of putting the skimmer on the sump as well. Does anyone have any good links with DIY sump plans? I have gone through the Melev Sump page numerous times.

Basically, my original plan was to have a 20 long sump with inlet on the right, bubble trap into refugium in the middle, and bubble trap to return on the left all the while leaving the skimmer on the DT. I will be using the glass-holes 700GPH drilled overflow kit (overkill for a 30 gallon DT?) and I may even use their drilled return kits making my 30 gallon essentially fully reef ready.

chuckawd · 01/03/2011, 04:36 PM

Here is a link to another forum: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f7...mp-128251.html

This person built essentially the same sump I was planning on doing except his baffles are way too high. Any thoughts? I like the refugium in the middle but I can very much see the benefits of slower water flowing through it.

01/03/2011, 10:18 AM	#1
chuckawd Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 266	Sump Question...What is the actual benefit? I understand that a sump is good for many reasons including giving greater water volume which allows for greater dillution etc. And of course having a refugium too. But, where does the actual filtration come in? I am going from a HOB AquaClear 500 filter with sponge, carbon, and bio-media to a sump and in other sumps, I usually see no physical filtration (carbon, sponges, bioballs etc.) other than a filter sock. In my sump I will have an inlet side, fuge in the middle, and return side on the other end. I assume most people use some sort of chemical, biological, and/or other filtration in sumps and I need to know what to use and where? Mainly, I plan to run a filter sock on the incoming water then my refugium with chaeto, LR, and DSB. How does all of this make for better filtration over canisters and actual 3 stage HOB filters?

01/03/2011, 10:41 AM	#2
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Canisters clog up and are a pain to clean. Sumps add water volume, a place for all the equipment, room for a larger skimmer, a place for pod populations to flourish, and room for whatever else you want to put in your fish tank. Sumps also use an overflow to pull surface film that includes most of the DOC's that a skimmer removes. A hob pulls the water from at least a few inches under the surface. Most people will run two media reactors as well. They can be plumbed into your return pump and drain back into the sump or have their own pumps. GFO and Carbon are the two most commonly used medias. GFO will pull phosphates out of the water and carbon polishes the water and will remove chemicals from coral warfare. It also helps the water smell better and not so fishy. Your live rock in your tank is the biological filter. You can also put extra rock in your sump. A skimmer is probably one of the biggest reasons people get sumps. A great skimmer should be part of your filtration. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

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01/03/2011, 11:25 AM	#3
chuckawd Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 266	So, for filtration in a sump, most people go with reactors for the mechanical and chemical filtration? The biological filtration is typically left up to LR in the sump or bio balls maybe? Like the PhosoBan Reactor and GFO/Carbon reactor? I am just beginning my research on reactors and filter type media within sumps. I initially understood the incoming side of a sump as essentially a canister filter that water poured on top of but now I have a much greater understanding of filtration in sumps. Thanks a lot!! Off to research reactors!! Phosphate and carbon reactors are most common for ensuring properly filtered and polished water? I was planning on using ample amounts of Cheato for reducing and hopefully eliminating phosphates and nitrates. Also, I must mention that I will be running my 20 gallon long sump on my 30 gallon system if that makes any difference.

01/03/2011, 11:34 AM	#4
noobtothereef Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: council bluffs iowa Posts: 1,530	alot of people run no mechanical filtration, if they do its via filter sock. Sumps are basically an area to place a skimmer, heaters, reactors for media, auto top off equipment, etc and also a place for deritus to settle for easy removal, you also benefit from added water volume which makes your system more stable. And not many people use bio balls anymore, they become dirty and produce nitrates

01/03/2011, 03:06 PM	#6
cjones1344 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 105	I don't know if I would say it's standard or not to have reactors, some people have them and some don't. Where you put the reactors depends on which ones you get. If you get something like the BRS reactors they don't go in the water, you mount them on a vertical surface like the walls of your stand. I have my BRS reactor mounted on the wall directly behind the stand. I would suggest feeding the reactors with water that has already been through your refugium; a lot of people have their sumps with the return in the middle and T off the drain line so that it drains into the skimmer compartment on one side of the return and the refugium on the other, then have both those compartments drain into the return. You don't really need the full sump flow going through the refugium so I would do the return in the middle. I know you didn't really ask all that, but I got started on the reactor question and figured I might as well say it all...

01/03/2011, 04:36 PM	#9
chuckawd Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 266	Here is a link to another forum: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f7...mp-128251.html This person built essentially the same sump I was planning on doing except his baffles are way too high. Any thoughts? I like the refugium in the middle but I can very much see the benefits of slower water flowing through it.