First Time Plumbing a Sump/Fuge

manicmatt · 04/02/2011, 06:49 AM

Okay. So I'm setting up a 55g reef ready (Deep Blue) with a corner overflow. I built the sump out of a thirty gallon tank. I have about nine inches for the drain area where my asm mini g will be, a triple baffle (13" 13" 12"), fifteen inches for my fuge, 12" baffle with 1" slits cut at top, the another nine inches for my return (mag 7). This is an open stand in my living room, so noise canceling is a necessity.

So here's what I'm looking for opinions on:

Flex pipe or PVC?

Should I have my drain dropping almost straight into the sump and the return being pushed a bit farther or the return going almost straight up and the drain line being a bit longer?

Ball valves in return line or drain? Or split the return with a valve to return a portion to the beginning of the sump? I'm pretty sure I'm going with the split return/resump.

And the fuge:

Lighting? I have a two bulb t5 ho. 6700k, 10000k, 14000k, 15000k, actinics yay or nay. I'm assuming 6700k, but would like pros and cons of different lighting setups. I'm going to be growing chaeto and red mangroves, probably trying some other things.

Deep sand bed pros and cons? I generally use 2" to 3" bed in my tank. what would constitute a dsb? I have about 11" of vertical room to use and would like the most room for the fuge I can.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just REALLY excited about this and don't want to mess it up.

ToddG. · 04/02/2011, 07:20 AM

As far as where the drain lines and returns fall its not really that important as long as you dont use any 90s to get where you want it and as far as valve id use a gate valve for the drain and balls for the return youll want valve in both areas. to controll flow if needed. I used flex pvc buts its really a pref if you want options later dowm the road make a manifold to go on pump so you can run different things off it down the road you kinda have to think in advance for thing yoou might wanna run or do and figure them in as your setting it up hope that helps.

ToddG. · 04/02/2011, 07:43 AM

Maybe this will help and as you can see i used 90s im my return and balls on my drains but im just letting you know if i was to do it again i wouldnt have but you can if you want you can see from my manifold off my pump i run alot feeds my cabon gfo reactor my pellet reactor to skimmer and my chiller under the house as well as feeding two returns and my drains one feeds skimmer and two go to sump.

manicmatt · 04/03/2011, 06:54 AM

Is there any benefit with flex over pvc? Is one quieter? One one effecient? Or is is it completely aesthetics?

Lynnmw1208 · 04/03/2011, 07:40 AM

I used flex all around because it was easier for me. If you use flex just remember barbed fittings and clamps. I did use some regular pvc for the connections between the elbows in my drains and returns to fit into adapters. I really like having my drain be fully open and almost straight down into the sump which you can only achieve with flex tubing. The only real noise I get is from the drain because I used corrugated tubing so the water sloshes a bit but it doesn't bother me, just sounds like a waterfall. I used vinyl on the returns. Here's some pics if that helps

this picture was before clamps were on

drain lines

ToddG. · 04/03/2011, 07:42 AM

I dont really tihink it queiter it just like its says its flexable allowing you to make bends and curves without using 90s and 45s to a extent now you can only bend it so far and its not more effecient unless it illiminates the elbows. But like i said a few 45s and 90 are not a big deal on a bigger pump now on a smaller gph pump 90s can really slow output

jlemoine2 · 04/03/2011, 08:21 AM

I recommend never using a valve on your drains. There is no reason for doing so. Restricting the drains can lead to potential overflow of the display tank. If you want to limit the amount of water draining into the sump, you should do it by slowing down water flow from the return pump.

Not having 90's is maybe a good idea, but I don't see why it is necessary as long as water has an overall downhill path to the sump. If the return pump is off, you may have a little bit of standing water in a perfectly level drain pipe... otherwise it will all end up in the sump regardless of 90 turns or not.

I thought about flex tubing in my setup as well, but ended up not going with it. I chickened out when I read too many stories of people having a harder time getting a good seal between flex pipe and other fittings... but I'm sure with some patience and some practice, it would not be a big deal. Depending on the setup, many folks frown upon using clear tubing, especially if there is a light source close by, since algae can build up inside of those tubes.

I could not find any immediate links on the depth of sand that would constitute a true DSB, but if memory serves, I think the benefits occur around 6"... which is fairly deep for some setups. Size of the bed is also part of the issue, your sand bed may not have enough surface area contacting the water to be a beneficial DSB. I suppose more research is required. Anyone else have input on this?

My 2 cents...

ToddG. · 04/03/2011, 08:58 AM

I have to run valves on my drain because it drains to fast regardless of flow and sucks to much air in and very noisey if i keep it set right its queit and almost no bubbles make it to sump but yes you have that potential if your overflow is not properly made and you dont have a backup drain which i have

manicmatt · 04/05/2011, 11:35 PM

I almost have my sump plumbing finished. I need to get my skimmer before I cement the PVC just in case as the area where the tank drains to is slightly cluttered. I T'd my return line so a pipe w/ a ball valve drops into the initial chamber so if I need to lessen flow for one reason or another in the future I won't have to restrict the return pump.

Once it's set up I'll try to post pics. I've yet to do that on this site so we'll see how that goes.

Skins · 04/06/2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlemoine2

I recommend never using a valve on your drains. There is no reason for doing so. Restricting the drains can lead to potential overflow of the display tank. .

I agree that it is not a good idea to restrict drain flow. I disagree however that ball valves are not important on drains. I always use true union ball valves on my drains but is strictly for maintainence purposes. If I ever have problem with my plumbing I can shut the drain off and disconnect my lines.

manicmatt · 04/06/2011, 11:03 PM

Anyone have any opinions on how far from the bottom of the sump the drains should be? Noise reduction is very important considering where my aquarium is located and the fact that its an open stand. Thanks.

manicmatt · 04/09/2011, 08:00 PM

Stupid bulkhead for the drain leaks. Boo.

567234ta · 04/09/2011, 08:42 PM

bummer

does anyone use silicone on bulkheads or do ya just crank em down tight?

manicmatt · 04/09/2011, 09:14 PM

From what I've heard no. Everything I've read is that you shouldn't need silicon. Just a quarter turn past hand tight. I need to get another bulkhead wrench. The one I was using was a pain to use. Too bulk and obviously didn't do a very good job.

ToddG. · 04/10/2011, 07:26 AM

Well thiers a couple of important things the hole has to be properly sized for the bulkhead and the rubber washer has to be on the wet side ive always put a little silcone in the gap on the dry nut side before it tightened it up for extra protection but you dont have to and bout a 1/4 to 1/2 turn past hand tight. Id say

manicmatt · 04/10/2011, 08:01 AM

The tank was professionally made so I'm assuming that the bulkheads and holes are the right size. (Fingers crossed to that.) And there's a rubber gasket on both sides. So I'm thinking new bulkhead wrench (thats actually a bulkhead wrench and not just an oversized wrench that barely fits under the aquarium), take off the standpipe an ensure the glass and gaskets are clean, then a bit of sealant before putting on the outside gasket and cranking it down a quarter to half turn past hand tight. Here goes nothing. (And to think, I thought I'd have the system running days ago. Time to wait on more sealant.)

ToddG. · 04/10/2011, 08:49 AM

Never heard of a gasket on the nut side could be some of the problem maybe its not letting you get enough pressure on the wet side gasket its absorbing most of the pressure and leaving the wet side loose I dont know I could be wrong maybe someone else has done that mines only had one gasket. It really doesnt need cranked down so when your talkin big wrench if you squeeze it to much it can leak I just used a pair of channel locks and gave it a little snug turn after hand thts it.

manicmatt · 04/10/2011, 01:22 PM

I'm not sure what channel locks are. The tool was just the only one big enough. I may have overtightened it. I have a bad habit of doing that. I actuallly cracked my return pump doing that. The gaskets on both sides was how the plumbing came. Trying again tonight. Here's to hoping.

ToddG. · 04/10/2011, 03:02 PM

For whats its worth i say leave the bottom seal off once you get in place and centered run a bead of silicon in the gap around the threads and screw it on hand tight then give it a 1/2 turn bet it holds but that up to you good luck.

manicmatt · 04/10/2011, 05:02 PM

I might just have to try that if reseating it doesnt work. Thanks.

manicmatt · 04/10/2011, 09:46 PM

I took off the bulkhead and standpipe, wiped everything down, did a quarterish past handtight w/o the external gasket and so far, no leaks. It's been about twenty minutes. Woot woot.

567234ta · 04/10/2011, 10:31 PM

The bulkheads i bought didn't have a gasket on the nut side either. thanks for the advice, i probably would have used silicone lol. ill crank them with channel locks since i don't have a bulkhead wrench.

manicmatt · 04/11/2011, 08:08 AM

I just looked up channel locks. That what I purchased last night. Just didnt know the name.

manicmatt · 04/11/2011, 08:12 AM

So I got my system up and running last night. I didnt have the return pointed down enough when I plugged the pump in...sprayed my girlfriend across the room. It was incredible. But about a half an hour later I realized that I had a very slow leak through the threading on the return bulkhead. I guess I should have taken the gasket off the nut side on the return line as well, I just figured that it wasn't leaking so why fix something that's not broken. Alas, more water pressure changed that. Fixing the problem now. It sucks because the threading on that bulkhead is really snug so it's more work than it should be. back to work.

04/02/2011, 06:49 AM	#1
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	First Time Plumbing a Sump/Fuge Okay. So I'm setting up a 55g reef ready (Deep Blue) with a corner overflow. I built the sump out of a thirty gallon tank. I have about nine inches for the drain area where my asm mini g will be, a triple baffle (13" 13" 12"), fifteen inches for my fuge, 12" baffle with 1" slits cut at top, the another nine inches for my return (mag 7). This is an open stand in my living room, so noise canceling is a necessity. So here's what I'm looking for opinions on: Flex pipe or PVC? Should I have my drain dropping almost straight into the sump and the return being pushed a bit farther or the return going almost straight up and the drain line being a bit longer? Ball valves in return line or drain? Or split the return with a valve to return a portion to the beginning of the sump? I'm pretty sure I'm going with the split return/resump. And the fuge: Lighting? I have a two bulb t5 ho. 6700k, 10000k, 14000k, 15000k, actinics yay or nay. I'm assuming 6700k, but would like pros and cons of different lighting setups. I'm going to be growing chaeto and red mangroves, probably trying some other things. Deep sand bed pros and cons? I generally use 2" to 3" bed in my tank. what would constitute a dsb? I have about 11" of vertical room to use and would like the most room for the fuge I can. Sorry for all the questions, I'm just REALLY excited about this and don't want to mess it up.

04/03/2011, 07:40 AM	#5
Lynnmw1208 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Brunswick, Ohio Posts: 3,306	I used flex all around because it was easier for me. If you use flex just remember barbed fittings and clamps. I did use some regular pvc for the connections between the elbows in my drains and returns to fit into adapters. I really like having my drain be fully open and almost straight down into the sump which you can only achieve with flex tubing. The only real noise I get is from the drain because I used corrugated tubing so the water sloshes a bit but it doesn't bother me, just sounds like a waterfall. I used vinyl on the returns. Here's some pics if that helps this picture was before clamps were on drain lines __________________ equipment: Eshopps psk-200 skimmer, Mag 12 pump, 30gal sump, 2x 300w Finnex heaters, glass-holes 1500gph overflow kit with 3/4" return kits, 72" 8x36w t-5 AquaticLife light, 66lbs of LR, 150lbs of tropic eden reeflakes, 2 Koralia Evo 1400, JBJ ATO, BRS dual GFO/carbon reactors, Hydor smartwave Current Tank Info: 125gallon

04/03/2011, 08:21 AM	#7
jlemoine2 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 200	I recommend never using a valve on your drains. There is no reason for doing so. Restricting the drains can lead to potential overflow of the display tank. If you want to limit the amount of water draining into the sump, you should do it by slowing down water flow from the return pump. Not having 90's is maybe a good idea, but I don't see why it is necessary as long as water has an overall downhill path to the sump. If the return pump is off, you may have a little bit of standing water in a perfectly level drain pipe... otherwise it will all end up in the sump regardless of 90 turns or not. I thought about flex tubing in my setup as well, but ended up not going with it. I chickened out when I read too many stories of people having a harder time getting a good seal between flex pipe and other fittings... but I'm sure with some patience and some practice, it would not be a big deal. Depending on the setup, many folks frown upon using clear tubing, especially if there is a light source close by, since algae can build up inside of those tubes. I could not find any immediate links on the depth of sand that would constitute a true DSB, but if memory serves, I think the benefits occur around 6"... which is fairly deep for some setups. Size of the bed is also part of the issue, your sand bed may not have enough surface area contacting the water to be a beneficial DSB. I suppose more research is required. Anyone else have input on this? My 2 cents... __________________ -James Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef w/ 40 gallon frag tank.

04/10/2011, 08:49 AM	#17
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	Never heard of a gasket on the nut side could be some of the problem maybe its not letting you get enough pressure on the wet side gasket its absorbing most of the pressure and leaving the wet side loose I dont know I could be wrong maybe someone else has done that mines only had one gasket. It really doesnt need cranked down so when your talkin big wrench if you squeeze it to much it can leak I just used a pair of channel locks and gave it a little snug turn after hand thts it. Last edited by ToddG.; 04/10/2011 at 08:54 AM.

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04/02/2011, 07:20 AM	#2
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	As far as where the drain lines and returns fall its not really that important as long as you dont use any 90s to get where you want it and as far as valve id use a gate valve for the drain and balls for the return youll want valve in both areas. to controll flow if needed. I used flex pvc buts its really a pref if you want options later dowm the road make a manifold to go on pump so you can run different things off it down the road you kinda have to think in advance for thing yoou might wanna run or do and figure them in as your setting it up hope that helps.

04/03/2011, 06:54 AM	#4
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	Is there any benefit with flex over pvc? Is one quieter? One one effecient? Or is is it completely aesthetics?

04/03/2011, 07:42 AM	#6
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	I dont really tihink it queiter it just like its says its flexable allowing you to make bends and curves without using 90s and 45s to a extent now you can only bend it so far and its not more effecient unless it illiminates the elbows. But like i said a few 45s and 90 are not a big deal on a bigger pump now on a smaller gph pump 90s can really slow output

04/03/2011, 08:58 AM	#8
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	I have to run valves on my drain because it drains to fast regardless of flow and sucks to much air in and very noisey if i keep it set right its queit and almost no bubbles make it to sump but yes you have that potential if your overflow is not properly made and you dont have a backup drain which i have

04/05/2011, 11:35 PM	#9
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	I almost have my sump plumbing finished. I need to get my skimmer before I cement the PVC just in case as the area where the tank drains to is slightly cluttered. I T'd my return line so a pipe w/ a ball valve drops into the initial chamber so if I need to lessen flow for one reason or another in the future I won't have to restrict the return pump. Once it's set up I'll try to post pics. I've yet to do that on this site so we'll see how that goes.

04/06/2011, 11:03 PM	#11
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	Anyone have any opinions on how far from the bottom of the sump the drains should be? Noise reduction is very important considering where my aquarium is located and the fact that its an open stand. Thanks.

04/09/2011, 08:00 PM	#12
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	Stupid bulkhead for the drain leaks. Boo.

04/09/2011, 08:42 PM	#13
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	bummer does anyone use silicone on bulkheads or do ya just crank em down tight?

04/09/2011, 09:14 PM	#14
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	From what I've heard no. Everything I've read is that you shouldn't need silicon. Just a quarter turn past hand tight. I need to get another bulkhead wrench. The one I was using was a pain to use. Too bulk and obviously didn't do a very good job.

04/10/2011, 07:26 AM	#15
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	Well thiers a couple of important things the hole has to be properly sized for the bulkhead and the rubber washer has to be on the wet side ive always put a little silcone in the gap on the dry nut side before it tightened it up for extra protection but you dont have to and bout a 1/4 to 1/2 turn past hand tight. Id say

04/10/2011, 08:01 AM	#16
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	The tank was professionally made so I'm assuming that the bulkheads and holes are the right size. (Fingers crossed to that.) And there's a rubber gasket on both sides. So I'm thinking new bulkhead wrench (thats actually a bulkhead wrench and not just an oversized wrench that barely fits under the aquarium), take off the standpipe an ensure the glass and gaskets are clean, then a bit of sealant before putting on the outside gasket and cranking it down a quarter to half turn past hand tight. Here goes nothing. (And to think, I thought I'd have the system running days ago. Time to wait on more sealant.)

04/10/2011, 01:22 PM	#18
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	I'm not sure what channel locks are. The tool was just the only one big enough. I may have overtightened it. I have a bad habit of doing that. I actuallly cracked my return pump doing that. The gaskets on both sides was how the plumbing came. Trying again tonight. Here's to hoping.

04/10/2011, 03:02 PM	#19
ToddG. Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 663	For whats its worth i say leave the bottom seal off once you get in place and centered run a bead of silicon in the gap around the threads and screw it on hand tight then give it a 1/2 turn bet it holds but that up to you good luck.

04/10/2011, 05:02 PM	#20
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	I might just have to try that if reseating it doesnt work. Thanks.

04/10/2011, 09:46 PM	#21
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	I took off the bulkhead and standpipe, wiped everything down, did a quarterish past handtight w/o the external gasket and so far, no leaks. It's been about twenty minutes. Woot woot.

04/10/2011, 10:31 PM	#22
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	The bulkheads i bought didn't have a gasket on the nut side either. thanks for the advice, i probably would have used silicone lol. ill crank them with channel locks since i don't have a bulkhead wrench.

04/11/2011, 08:08 AM	#23
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	I just looked up channel locks. That what I purchased last night. Just didnt know the name.

04/11/2011, 08:12 AM	#24
manicmatt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 80	So I got my system up and running last night. I didnt have the return pointed down enough when I plugged the pump in...sprayed my girlfriend across the room. It was incredible. But about a half an hour later I realized that I had a very slow leak through the threading on the return bulkhead. I guess I should have taken the gasket off the nut side on the return line as well, I just figured that it wasn't leaking so why fix something that's not broken. Alas, more water pressure changed that. Fixing the problem now. It sucks because the threading on that bulkhead is really snug so it's more work than it should be. back to work.