Yellow watchman not doing well.. Help!

Subw00er · 01/17/2012, 03:46 PM

My yellow watchman was doing well the first couple weeks I had him (previous owner had him a long time) but yesterday I noticed he was uncharacteristically at the top of the tank. I also noticed his top/rear fins did not look good- like parts were missing.

I have been careful to not over feed but now I wonder if I underfed and the two peppermint shrimp had their way with him at night?!

What should I do? I dont have an easy way to isolate him yet. I tried feeding him, but he only went for one pellet. The peppermint on the other hand seem to be able to eat constantly!

SneakyPete · 01/17/2012, 03:48 PM

Do you have any other fish in the tank?

Subw00er · 01/17/2012, 04:12 PM

There is a spotted benny and a black and white clown, both look fine. Couple hermit crabs and cleanup snails.. thats about it.

ps all of my levels are fine, but I did increase salinity slowly (over a couple days) from 20-23

bamf25 · 01/17/2012, 04:17 PM

Salinity increase should not be an issues. Most fish can handle 0.02 fairly quickly and that over a few days should be nothing. Is the ywg getting picked on by the spotted blenny? Both of those fish like the same areas of the tank.

BeanMachine · 01/17/2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamf25

Salinity increase should not be an issues. Most fish can handle 0.02 fairly quickly and that over a few days should be nothing. Is the ywg getting picked on by the spotted blenny? Both of those fish like the same areas of the tank.

That's what my guess is as well. How big is the tank?

Subw00er · 01/17/2012, 04:33 PM

Its a 12gallon nano. Come to think of it, the blenny was picking on him a bit. The yellow was always front and center and the blenny sort of takes over the entire rear of the tank. He bounces from hole to hole. So you think its more likely him doing it? Possibly the reorganization of the rocks during the move unsettled territories?! I tried to make places to hide..

What should I do? I feel horrible for my little guy.

bamf25 · 01/17/2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

Its a 12gallon nano. Come to think of it, the blenny was picking on him a bit. The yellow was always front and center and the blenny sort of takes over the entire rear of the tank. He bounces from hole to hole. So you think its more likely him doing it? Possibly the reorganization of the rocks during the move unsettled territories?! I tried to make places to hide..

What should I do? I feel horrible for my little guy.

Three fish is already alot for a 12g tank. As much as you will hate this suggestion, the ywg may need a new home, or the blenny. I have a 120g and I only plan on putting 10 to 12 in it.

Subw00er · 01/17/2012, 04:52 PM

I guess I wasnt worried because the three fish have been in there for months together and the tank is really stable. I think most would say three is ok for a 12.. the fish are pretty small, 2"-2.5"

BeanMachine · 01/17/2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I guess I wasnt worried because the three fish have been in there for months together and the tank is really stable. I think most would say three is ok for a 12.. the fish are pretty small, 2"-2.5"

Its not that the size of the tank is really the issue... well kind of... similar shaped fish, fish that occupy the same turf (especially in a small tank), present other issues other than strictly from a bioload or filtration standpoint.

w16227 · 01/18/2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I guess I wasnt worried because the three fish have been in there for months together and the tank is really stable. I think most would say three is ok for a 12.. the fish are pretty small, 2"-2.5"

Actually - most would say that three fish is a LOT for a 12g saltwater tank.

In 12g - everyone is sharing the space.

from liveaquaria

Black & White Ocellaris Clownfish - 20 gal minimum tank size

Blennies - not a specific "spotted" one listed but they range in tank need from 10 - 30 min

Goby - the "prawn" yellow watchman lists 10g min tank size

So - not far off from tank size - but the number of fish is the real issues. You obviously cannot fit a dozen fish in a 12g even if they are all rated for a 5g minimum tank size.

Aggression and territory is key. People keep the smaller clownfish in 12g tanks as they tend to occupy smaller spaces (even in a large tank they typically do not roam far from one location). A pair works - as once they get in "sync" with each other (choose which one will be the female) - they are not overly aggressive towards each other. But if a single clown is sharing space with another free swimmer, the close quarters can initiate more aggression.

Same with sand dwellers - each not only has a tank size that they need to survive, but they will have their own little "area" where they stake out their home. The blenny and goby hang out in the same zone - and this may be causing aggression.

This territorial aggression will usually get worse as the fish get older.

recommendation would be to remove the goby or blenny.

Fish Biscuit · 01/18/2012, 04:33 PM

I would find a home for the goby or the blenny or keep the ywg & set up another 12g for him & a pistol shrimp. I am lucky that my tailspot doesn't hang at the bottom where the goby is & neither one of the care about the other when they are both out for breakfast.

Clowns seem to be ok in a nano but the general consensus is that they should be the only 2 fish in the tank.

Subw00er · 01/18/2012, 04:34 PM

Well unfortunately this decision was made for me yesterday.

The Goby was really not doing well. He looked very emaciated and scared. I didnt know what else to do so to isolate him from further abuse, I put him in the open area of the filter and tried to block egress to the return pump area with cheato. He just sat there till I went to bed. I woke to take a look and he was gone! I checked everywhere for an hour.. there is a large hard to access area under the filter area that I didnt realized existed, but I tried to drain water and swish him out of there, assuming he was there, but I didnt see of feel him under there. Where could he have gone?!

He is either still in there and was able to stay out of my grasp hinged to a corner, or jumped out or something. I feel awful!!!

So I didnt find him.. what if he is in the filter area and dies. will I have a water quality issue? I have a lot of little conical snails in that area of the filter. Will they make quick work of the 2"x1/4" carcass, or is this huge cause for concern? Oh dear, what have I done!!! I thought about throwing a peppermint down there (mine are vivacious eaters) but then how would I get him out!? I was thinking I could lure the shrimp with some food in a net that he would grab onto.

I guess if he does die it would be easier to actually see him by swishing around and getting him to come out.. I think I'll just look tomorrow again.. This is a tough hobby!

Fish Biscuit · 01/18/2012, 04:48 PM

Do not put anything else in the back chambers of the tank in the case that the ywg is ok & just hiding. You will need to find him because if he didn't make it your water quality will take a turn for the worse w/ such a small tank.

If you do find him what you can do is get one of those little clear plastic containers with the vents on top and keep him in that isolated inside your tank from the blenny until you find a home for one or the other. One of the LFS in my area keeps their eels in those so they don't eat anything else in the tanks. I think reptile people use them to bring home crickets or live mice in, they should be pretty easy to find.

Everyone in this hobby has made a mistake at one time or another. The trick is to learn from it. If you do your research you will be ok.

00Warpig00 · 01/18/2012, 10:55 PM

Look on the floor Gobies are known tile surfers. Chances are good that if he could jump out, he did jump out. Specially if he has been getting beat on by other fish.

Nick

Subw00er · 01/19/2012, 08:30 AM

I checked pretty heavily.. no sign of him. maybe a mouse ate him post jump?!

Water levels seems table.. if he is in there decaying, I assume I'd see a spike of something..

The worst part is not knowing!

00Warpig00 · 01/19/2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I checked pretty heavily.. no sign of him. maybe a mouse ate him post jump?!

Water levels seems table.. if he is in there decaying, I assume I'd see a spike of something..

The worst part is not knowing!

I agree that is the worst part. Check a few feet away from your tank on the floor too. I had one jump out and he was at least three feet away from the tank where I found him crispy on the floor. He was my favorite fish at the time too.

I hope that's not what happened. People say their gobies hide in the rocks and go unseen for weeks at a time. I have three and they are all out in the open in the tank for at least 80% of the day.

Nick

Fish Biscuit · 01/20/2012, 12:04 PM

I am used to seeing mine every day but on occasion they will hide for a few days on end. I saw him peek out briefly this am & came back to feed breakfast & he wasn't out. Turns out that the front door to the house had been moved to the back corner of tank & I never noticed until I walked past & saw the mini sandstorm as he hauled butt back inside.

They can be quite the jumpers though.

Subw00er · 01/24/2012, 10:37 PM

Ok you're not going to believe this.. but I happen to peek into my filter area... and who do I see!?!! Its the goby! OMG, its still alive after a full week with no food and near death to start with! He must have eaten whatever debris was in the filter area.. what a strong little guy.

He was really skinny and a bit like "What the hell did you do to me, give me some food" but he seems ok albeit a bit lethargic. He ate a couple pellets and then just sat there like I do after a big meal. Hopefully he didnt eat too much at once.

I installed a refugium today, so that is a nice little home for him till I can get him back to health. I noticed most of his fins looked a lot better and had grown back a bit. Once he is a bit better, I might bring him to the LFS so he can find a better home.. not sure yet. Maybe I'll ditch the Blenny instead, he is kind of a jerk.

The best part about all of this... now I know what happened to him! I dont know how I didnt find him the first time. He is a good little hider.

Fish Biscuit · 01/25/2012, 02:53 PM

Oh wow, at least he's ok!! How big is your fuge? Big enough to just keep him in there or put him in the main tank & the blenny in the fuge w/ some LR to hang out in?

If you decide to keep the YWG get a pistol to pair it with, they are quite entertaining. Make sure all your corals are attached or they will be used for building materials & expect the sand to be moved around quite a bit until the cave is set up. The pistol will still move the sand around but not anywhere near like the beginning.

00Warpig00 · 01/25/2012, 08:49 PM

Glad to hear he didn't make his way to the floor.

Nick

Subw00er · 01/25/2012, 10:37 PM

the fuge is 2.5 gallons and there is a lot of grape macro in there. He is just hanging out on the bottom. I've ordered some live rock but it wont be here till friday. He looks a bit bored.

I read about the pistol.. thats really neat. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.. still thinking about it. With a tank this small, it requires a bit more thought as to what fish you want.. I'm told I can only get 2-3.

01/17/2012, 03:46 PM	#1
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	Yellow watchman not doing well.. Help! My yellow watchman was doing well the first couple weeks I had him (previous owner had him a long time) but yesterday I noticed he was uncharacteristically at the top of the tank. I also noticed his top/rear fins did not look good- like parts were missing. I have been careful to not over feed but now I wonder if I underfed and the two peppermint shrimp had their way with him at night?! What should I do? I dont have an easy way to isolate him yet. I tried feeding him, but he only went for one pellet. The peppermint on the other hand seem to be able to eat constantly!

01/17/2012, 03:48 PM	#2
SneakyPete I see you Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northwestern Minnesota Posts: 513	Do you have any other fish in the tank? __________________ 40B in recovery mode Trumpet coral, Kenya tree, unknown Zoa Skunk Cleaner, 2 Ocellaris Clowns, Royal Gramma Current Tank Info: 40B w 29 sump. 50 lbs rock

01/18/2012, 04:33 PM	#11
Fish Biscuit Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,164	I would find a home for the goby or the blenny or keep the ywg & set up another 12g for him & a pistol shrimp. I am lucky that my tailspot doesn't hang at the bottom where the goby is & neither one of the care about the other when they are both out for breakfast. Clowns seem to be ok in a nano but the general consensus is that they should be the only 2 fish in the tank. __________________ Michele I enjoy vodka entirely too much to share with the fish. Current Tank Info: 65 rimless with Eshopps R200 sump, current inhabitants randall goby, helfrichi, possum wrasse, barnacle blenny, mandarin, pistol, peppermint, & fire shrimp, snails, hermits, & LPS

01/18/2012, 04:48 PM	#13
Fish Biscuit Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,164	Do not put anything else in the back chambers of the tank in the case that the ywg is ok & just hiding. You will need to find him because if he didn't make it your water quality will take a turn for the worse w/ such a small tank. If you do find him what you can do is get one of those little clear plastic containers with the vents on top and keep him in that isolated inside your tank from the blenny until you find a home for one or the other. One of the LFS in my area keeps their eels in those so they don't eat anything else in the tanks. I think reptile people use them to bring home crickets or live mice in, they should be pretty easy to find. Everyone in this hobby has made a mistake at one time or another. The trick is to learn from it. If you do your research you will be ok. __________________ Michele I enjoy vodka entirely too much to share with the fish. Current Tank Info: 65 rimless with Eshopps R200 sump, current inhabitants randall goby, helfrichi, possum wrasse, barnacle blenny, mandarin, pistol, peppermint, & fire shrimp, snails, hermits, & LPS

01/18/2012, 10:55 PM	#14
00Warpig00 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Schaumburg, IL. Posts: 621	Look on the floor Gobies are known tile surfers. Chances are good that if he could jump out, he did jump out. Specially if he has been getting beat on by other fish. Nick __________________ 180G - 5 Yellow Tail Blue Damsels, Two Lined Sleeper Goby, Royal Gramma, Flame Angel pair, Yellow Stripe Maroon Clown, Pearlscale Butterfly, Australian Harlequin Tuskfish, Magnificent Foxface, Yellow Current Tank Info: 180G FOWLR Established 10/2010

01/17/2012, 04:12 PM	#3
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	There is a spotted benny and a black and white clown, both look fine. Couple hermit crabs and cleanup snails.. thats about it. ps all of my levels are fine, but I did increase salinity slowly (over a couple days) from 20-23

01/17/2012, 04:17 PM	#4
bamf25 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,419	Salinity increase should not be an issues. Most fish can handle 0.02 fairly quickly and that over a few days should be nothing. Is the ywg getting picked on by the spotted blenny? Both of those fish like the same areas of the tank.

01/17/2012, 04:33 PM	#6
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	Its a 12gallon nano. Come to think of it, the blenny was picking on him a bit. The yellow was always front and center and the blenny sort of takes over the entire rear of the tank. He bounces from hole to hole. So you think its more likely him doing it? Possibly the reorganization of the rocks during the move unsettled territories?! I tried to make places to hide.. What should I do? I feel horrible for my little guy.

01/17/2012, 04:52 PM	#8
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	I guess I wasnt worried because the three fish have been in there for months together and the tank is really stable. I think most would say three is ok for a 12.. the fish are pretty small, 2"-2.5"

01/18/2012, 04:34 PM	#12
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	Well unfortunately this decision was made for me yesterday. The Goby was really not doing well. He looked very emaciated and scared. I didnt know what else to do so to isolate him from further abuse, I put him in the open area of the filter and tried to block egress to the return pump area with cheato. He just sat there till I went to bed. I woke to take a look and he was gone! I checked everywhere for an hour.. there is a large hard to access area under the filter area that I didnt realized existed, but I tried to drain water and swish him out of there, assuming he was there, but I didnt see of feel him under there. Where could he have gone?! He is either still in there and was able to stay out of my grasp hinged to a corner, or jumped out or something. I feel awful!!! So I didnt find him.. what if he is in the filter area and dies. will I have a water quality issue? I have a lot of little conical snails in that area of the filter. Will they make quick work of the 2"x1/4" carcass, or is this huge cause for concern? Oh dear, what have I done!!! I thought about throwing a peppermint down there (mine are vivacious eaters) but then how would I get him out!? I was thinking I could lure the shrimp with some food in a net that he would grab onto. I guess if he does die it would be easier to actually see him by swishing around and getting him to come out.. I think I'll just look tomorrow again.. This is a tough hobby!

01/19/2012, 08:30 AM	#15
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	I checked pretty heavily.. no sign of him. maybe a mouse ate him post jump?! Water levels seems table.. if he is in there decaying, I assume I'd see a spike of something.. The worst part is not knowing!

01/20/2012, 12:04 PM	#17
Fish Biscuit Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,164	I am used to seeing mine every day but on occasion they will hide for a few days on end. I saw him peek out briefly this am & came back to feed breakfast & he wasn't out. Turns out that the front door to the house had been moved to the back corner of tank & I never noticed until I walked past & saw the mini sandstorm as he hauled butt back inside. They can be quite the jumpers though. __________________ Michele I enjoy vodka entirely too much to share with the fish. Current Tank Info: 65 rimless with Eshopps R200 sump, current inhabitants randall goby, helfrichi, possum wrasse, barnacle blenny, mandarin, pistol, peppermint, & fire shrimp, snails, hermits, & LPS

01/24/2012, 10:37 PM	#18
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	Ok you're not going to believe this.. but I happen to peek into my filter area... and who do I see!?!! Its the goby! OMG, its still alive after a full week with no food and near death to start with! He must have eaten whatever debris was in the filter area.. what a strong little guy. He was really skinny and a bit like "What the hell did you do to me, give me some food" but he seems ok albeit a bit lethargic. He ate a couple pellets and then just sat there like I do after a big meal. Hopefully he didnt eat too much at once. I installed a refugium today, so that is a nice little home for him till I can get him back to health. I noticed most of his fins looked a lot better and had grown back a bit. Once he is a bit better, I might bring him to the LFS so he can find a better home.. not sure yet. Maybe I'll ditch the Blenny instead, he is kind of a jerk. The best part about all of this... now I know what happened to him! I dont know how I didnt find him the first time. He is a good little hider.

01/25/2012, 02:53 PM	#19
Fish Biscuit Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,164	Oh wow, at least he's ok!! How big is your fuge? Big enough to just keep him in there or put him in the main tank & the blenny in the fuge w/ some LR to hang out in? If you decide to keep the YWG get a pistol to pair it with, they are quite entertaining. Make sure all your corals are attached or they will be used for building materials & expect the sand to be moved around quite a bit until the cave is set up. The pistol will still move the sand around but not anywhere near like the beginning. __________________ Michele I enjoy vodka entirely too much to share with the fish. Current Tank Info: 65 rimless with Eshopps R200 sump, current inhabitants randall goby, helfrichi, possum wrasse, barnacle blenny, mandarin, pistol, peppermint, & fire shrimp, snails, hermits, & LPS

01/25/2012, 08:49 PM	#20
00Warpig00 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Schaumburg, IL. Posts: 621	Glad to hear he didn't make his way to the floor. Nick __________________ 180G - 5 Yellow Tail Blue Damsels, Two Lined Sleeper Goby, Royal Gramma, Flame Angel pair, Yellow Stripe Maroon Clown, Pearlscale Butterfly, Australian Harlequin Tuskfish, Magnificent Foxface, Yellow Current Tank Info: 180G FOWLR Established 10/2010

01/25/2012, 10:37 PM	#21
Subw00er Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 460	the fuge is 2.5 gallons and there is a lot of grape macro in there. He is just hanging out on the bottom. I've ordered some live rock but it wont be here till friday. He looks a bit bored. I read about the pistol.. thats really neat. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.. still thinking about it. With a tank this small, it requires a bit more thought as to what fish you want.. I'm told I can only get 2-3.