Cycle Salt?

[Meercat_Maric]

Easy question - can I cycle my tank with a lower quality salt mix and then switch to my dream salt mix after?

I plan to use Aquavitro Salinty for after the cycle and an Instant Ocean facsimile during cycle and for initial tank mixture.

Thoughts?? -thanks!

[DeathMagnetic]

absolutely.. Instant Ocean is a consistantly good product many people have been using it for years with no problems personally ive been using the Reef Crystals for about 15 years and grow everything without issues...

Joe

[shifty51008]

of course you can but I wouldn't say IO is lower quality salt just because of price. as stated alot of reefers have been using IO for years with great results.

[Playa-1]

Yep, sounds like a plan

[Sk8r]

Understand---there's reef salt, which is high in calcium and magnesium; and fish-only salt, which isn't. You need to supplement calcium for corals. Once you have corals, a supplement as, eg, kalk, can make up the deficit. The week before you get a stony coral is when you need the reef salt level of calcium in your tank.

[softieatheart]

Originally Posted by Meercat_Maric

I plan to use Aquavitro Salinty for after the cycle and an Instant Ocean facsimile during cycle and for initial tank mixture.

That is what I did and will do again on my next set-up.

[Meercat_Maric]

Originally Posted by DeathMagnetic

absolutely.. Instant Ocean is a consistantly good product many people have been using it for years with no problems personally ive been using the Reef Crystals for about 15 years and grow everything without issues...

Joe

Thanks DM - I have used IO before as my main salt mix - although I had only kept simpler corals in those days. Considering that Av Salinity comes in at over $100/bucket, I was hoping I could skimp before I stocked

Originally Posted by shifty51008

of course you can but I wouldn't say IO is lower quality salt just because of price. as stated alot of reefers have been using IO for years with great results.

Thanks Shifty - again, IO has been a good product for me in the past as well - I just figured since I have customized every aspect of this (my final tank) I should upgrade my salt mix as well. Im looking forward to the AV results - I hear good things.

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Understand---there's reef salt, which is high in calcium and magnesium; and fish-only salt, which isn't. You need to supplement calcium for corals. Once you have corals, a supplement as, eg, kalk, can make up the deficit. The week before you get a stony coral is when you need the reef salt level of calcium in your tank.

You raise some valid points SK8R - I always thought there were minute differences between blends (there had to be considering the cost differences) but your intel gives me more insight as to why I should upgrade my mix just before stocking. Thanks!



As a side inquiry - has anyone used Aquavitro Salinty? If so, what were your results? I have been doing some research and the only downside I have found is the price - although this is offset by its concentration levels. I have heard it doesn't take as much salt to mix the same volumes of water for other brands. your thoughts??

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Meercat_Maric

Easy question - can I cycle my tank with a lower quality salt mix and then switch to my dream salt mix after?

I plan to use Aquavitro Salinty for after the cycle and an Instant Ocean facsimile during cycle and for initial tank mixture.

Thoughts?? -thanks!

What is an Instant Ocean facsimile? I use IO and I'm not sure I'd like any other salt as well.

I'm not convinced any other salt is better, regardless of price.

[bamf25]

When did salt become different from salt? I know the levels of MG, ALK, CA, and trace eliments can change, and this is where the mixtures differ. So if you find a mixture you like, use it. Most variations in amounts can be changed with suppliments, so it really matters little overall.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by bamf25

When did salt become different from salt? I know the levels of MG, ALK, CA, and trace eliments can change, and this is where the mixtures differ. So if you find a mixture you like, use it. Most variations in amounts can be changed with suppliments, so it really matters little overall.

Not true if the mix contains things you DO NOT want in them. You cannot pull them out easily.

This is a bit older (some formulations may have changed since I originally wrote it, but it is hard to keep up with all such changes since most companies do not alert us to changes), but here's my take on various mixes showing why I do not pick many of them:


I do not think there is a "best" salt mix. Nearly all of them will work fine as long as you know their pros and cons.

I don't want excessive borate, which leaves out Seachem.

I don't want vitamins or anything else organic in my mix (because I doubt their utility, they degrade with time to who knows what, bacteria may thrive on them as I store new salt water for a substantial period, they are totally undescribed with respect to amounts or identity, they are often not naturally present in natural seawater at appreciable levels, and because I've occasionally had them mess with my skimmer), so that tosses out some like Reef Crystals, hW Marinemix Plus BioElements, Kent, Coralife, and Nutri-SeaWater.

I don't want excessive calcium (long term use of limewater as I use drives up calcium, so I do not want it starting high), so that tosses out a bunch, such as Kent, Seachem, Coralife and Oceanic.

There are certain companies that I will not support due to their misleading claims and/or product lines. That tosses out a few which I won't detail here since it is my personal thought as opposed to a specific issue with their salt mix.

I won't use certain lines of natural seawater due to excessive metals in it.

That only leaves a few to choose from, such as Instant Ocean and Tropic Marin Pro. The remaining ones might all be fine for me, but IO is lower in cost, especially if you get it when it goes on sale (which it frequently does). It also has a very long track record of success in many aquaria with relatively few concerning issues of bad batches.

[Meercat_Maric]

I guess im just looking for the best blend of trace elements in my salt mix so I don't have to dose anything extra (hopefully). Thats best case scenario, but I realize that testing will determine what my tank eventually consumes in the end.

I have heard that Aquavitro has all the trace elements (Alk/Calc) that one normally doeses when housing a reef. My hope is to replace these all with every water change thus reducing the need for dosing systems etc etc.

After reading some other strings on the subject, I noticed that the common beleif exists that IO can be pre-mixed and housed for a period of time without diminishing its beneficial makeup (magnesium, Alk, calc). Aquavitro Salinty on the other hand does not fare as well. Good advice for me as I have been making rubbermaid bins of RO water in anticipation of filling the system and powering on. Now I won't pre-mix my salt days ahead of time, rather I will have it on a 24 hour turnaround from mixture to filling the tank - thanks guys!

[Meercat_Maric]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

What is an Instant Ocean facsimile? I use IO and I'm not sure I'd like any other salt as well.

I'm not convinced any other salt is better, regardless of price.

I can't even recall what the bucket was called to tell you the truth. My LFS only described it as being similar to IO. The good news came in when he told me it was only $50 a bucket - which is why I wanted to know if I could cycle with it. Looks like I will be doing just that - then switching to AV Salinity.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Meercat_Maric

I have heard that Aquavitro has all the trace elements (Alk/Calc) that one normally doeses when housing a reef. My hope is to replace these all with every water change thus reducing the need for dosing systems etc etc.

That is, unfortunately, a false hope. It contains no more alkalinity or calcium than most brands, and water changes are not going to supply adequately alkalinity for any tank unless you change more than 20% EACH DAY.

I show that here:

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

from it:


Figure 22. Alkalinity as a function of time when performing daily water changes equivalent to 0% (no changes), 15% and 30% of the total volume each month (in other words, 0%, 0.5% and 1% per day). In this example, alkalinity is present at 4 meq/L (11 dKH) at the start and is depleted at a low rate of 0.2 meq/L per day.




Figure 23. Alkalinity as a function of time when performing very large daily water changes of 0% (no changes), 5%, 10%, 15% and 30% of the total volume EACH DAY. In this example, alkalinity is present at 4 meq/L (11 dKH) at the start and is depleted at a low rate of 0.2 meq/L per day.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Meercat_Maric

After reading some other strings on the subject, I noticed that the common beleif exists that IO can be pre-mixed and housed for a period of time without diminishing its beneficial makeup (magnesium, Alk, calc). Aquavitro Salinty on the other hand does not fare as well. Good advice for me as I have been making rubbermaid bins of RO water in anticipation of filling the system and powering on. Now I won't pre-mix my salt days ahead of time, rather I will have it on a 24 hour turnaround from mixture to filling the tank - thanks guys!

IO is stable for long periods, and I also do not see why Salinity wouldn't be either (I've not seen it claimed to contain organics).

If you want, it is easy enough to check the alkalinity in Salinity after a couple of weeks to see what has changed. That will be the belllweather for calcium carbonate precipitation, the likely think to go wrong in a salt mix that adds calcium and alkalinity and pH above NSW values.

FWIW, Aquavitro salinity claims it should be mixed for 24 h before use, but I've not seen any mention that it should be used in 24 h or less:

http://www.aquavitro.com/products/salinity.html
from it:

"Stir well to ensure a good mix. Although the salinity™ solution may be used immediately, we suggest mixing for approximately 24 hours to achieve oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium."