My lion is soooo greedy!

Ajphillips · 12/17/2013, 05:20 PM

Ok, so a few members will probably remember previous posts of mine, and my volitans is doing great! Loves his frozen food and is absolutely huge!! He is about 14'' wing to wing an about 8'' long -he is only about 6 months old!

So yeah I realise he is gonna be a beast even for a volitans! My problem is he really won't stop eating! I feed all my guys every other day, sometimes a two day gap if I think my lion is still a bit fat... But I added a snowflake eel to the tank an he is going a little wild trying to get fed before the lion steals it!

The lion has even started 'guarding' food he can't eat (frozen shrimp cubes I feed to the others) he is an eating machine! I'm a bit stumped as to how I can make sure all my guys get fed! Any ideas?

Ajphillips · 12/17/2013, 05:34 PM

Further info :- tank mates are foxface rabbit fish, valentini puffer, golden wrass and now a snowflake eel.

Food is a chopped mix of lance fish, ocean squid, brine shrimp an mysis shrimp. I freeze this an cut it into bite size chunks for him though the others like it too

BossHoggin · 12/17/2013, 06:45 PM

I use tongs similar to what a janitor would use comprised of stainless steel and plastic so it does not seeze up with rust. With a firm grip i can get food to my black edged moray without over feeding my miniatus grouper. The grouper has a similar jaw structure and feeding technique to your volitan. It has realised it cannot rip or suck the food off of the tongs. That would solve the feeding of the puffer and eel. I would get an algae clip and some nori to feed the foxface if you do not have already. I would use pe mysis instead of smaller mysis and brine shrimp since your foxface and wrasse are decent sized considering the lionfish has not eaten them. Too small of food can be lazily picked at and mostly settle amd rot IME. Thaw the cubes first then add the mysis into a flow source. No way the volitan can guard it all at once as it blows around.

shse666 · 12/18/2013, 02:13 AM

I have feeding tongs and one of those glow in the dark acrylic rods that you seen used at frag swaps to point out corals and such.

Th big Volly knows that tongs are for food. Orange tap sticks means he has to move or in some cases go hide behind his rock. Took around 5 taps on his tail for his fishy brain to work it out.

Stick and carrot. I pretty much have control of his behavior now. Picked up this trick from the lair.

namxas · 12/18/2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajphillips

Further info :- tank mates are foxface rabbit fish, valentini puffer, golden wrass and now a snowflake eel.

Food is a chopped mix of lance fish, ocean squid, brine shrimp an mysis shrimp. I freeze this an cut it into bite size chunks for him though the others like it too

Lionfishes have been known to eat to the point of regurgitation...being binge/fast preds, they will eat if there's food presented.

It wouldn't surprise me if the eel or the lion eventually makes a go for the puffer or the wrasse, as I've seen it happen, but I digress...

I hope you're not feeding frozen food to your fishes...not a good idea at all. You didn't mention a binder such as gelatin, so it sounds like you're just tossing frozen chunks into the tank.

You really need to target feed your preds. About the best thing to use to deliver the food is a "stealth stick", as it is about the least intrusive, best-accepted method we've found, and it doesn't matter if the fish gets a bit enthusiastic, as the food slips right off of it and it can't harm the fish like tongs or pointed sticks.

The stick is easily made, and it's described in this article:

Tools of the Trade: Equipment & Techniques to Convert your Fish onto Frozen

Your preds really only need to be fed 3x a week or so. They have slow metabolisms, and overfeeding can lead to a few issues, such as hepatic lipidosis or even excess food rotting in their GI tracts.

HTH

snorvich · 12/18/2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajphillips

Further info :- tank mates are foxface rabbit fish, valentini puffer, golden wrass and now a snowflake eel.

In my opinion the puffer and wrasse are fair game for dinner.

Ajphillips · 12/19/2013, 12:08 PM

Thanks for the advice guys, to answer a few comments, I do defrost food first, I let it stand for about 20 mins so it retains some form of consistency before feeding, I do target my lion to feed first though that isn't hard he seeks me out at feeding time!

I may have to get a feeding stick just for my eel though as he is hopeless at finding food, he knows it's there an goes wild but usually swims right past it 3 or 4 times before he finally finds it, meanwhile going crazy all over the tank!

In terms of the others getting eaten, maybe in a year it could be a possibility the eel might have a go but honestly my lion can't even eat half a lance fish whole yet, there is no way he will attempt my puffer or wrass!

I admit a fully grown lion an a juv wrass or puffer would be lunch but that's a long way away an all have a lot more growing to do!

anbosu · 12/19/2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajphillips

Thanks for the advice guys, to answer a few comments, I do defrost food first, I let it stand for about 20 mins so it retains some form of consistency before feeding, I do target my lion to feed first though that isn't hard he seeks me out at feeding time!

I may have to get a feeding stick just for my eel though as he is hopeless at finding food, he knows it's there an goes wild but usually swims right past it 3 or 4 times before he finally finds it, meanwhile going crazy all over the tank!

In terms of the others getting eaten, maybe in a year it could be a possibility the eel might have a go but honestly my lion can't even eat half a lance fish whole yet, there is no way he will attempt my puffer or wrass!

I admit a fully grown lion an a juv wrass or puffer would be lunch but that's a long way away an all have a lot more growing to do!

I've used bamboo skewers in the past to feed my eels if you don't want to get anything complicated. It's almost impossible to adequately feed eels in a community tank without target feeding like this.

Lions can eat surprisingly large fish. If yours is 8" long it can easily eat the wrasse unless you have something other than the yellow "coris" wrasse. The puffer is less likely to be on the menu, but is still possible. The eel is not likely to be able to catch the wrasse unless it can come upon it sleeping, but it could take out the puffer down the road since it's pretty small.

Ajphillips · 12/19/2013, 04:49 PM

My wrasse is about 6-7'' at the moment and my lion is still a juv, albeit a very large one his jaw has not squared out yet so he can only eat quite small things

of course this will change but we are talking a at least 2x growth before he thinks my wrasse is anything close to edible and that's provided my wrasse dosnt grow at all!

My wrasse seems to spend his time in the rocks only bombing out to steal food so I think he is good! The eel on the other hand is an absolute terrorist in the tank! His poor vision means he thinks everything is a meal at food time regardless of whether it's venomous or not!

My foxface raises it's spines in warning but is usually the one that has to back off!

Think I'll have my hands full with him!

Ajphillips · 12/19/2013, 05:14 PM

I'll add more as I take em!

Ajphillips · 12/19/2013, 05:19 PM

Try again...

namxas · 12/19/2013, 06:20 PM

The reason your eel goes so crazy is because they have terrible eyesight, but a good sense of smell. When the food is in the tank, the scent goes everywhere, so the eel runs around trying to find it.

I kept a SFE for about 15 years, and target feeding it was a must. However, I eventually had to house it alone due to its propensity to kill and eat tankmates (including a toby). Wrasses are very heavy sleepers, and if your specimen doesn't bury itself in the substrate, the eel may take it down one PM.

Ajphillips · 12/19/2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namxas

The reason your eel goes so crazy is because they have terrible eyesight, but a good sense of smell. When the food is in the tank, the scent goes everywhere, so the eel runs around trying to find it.

I kept a SFE for about 15 years, and target feeding it was a must. However, I eventually had to house it alone due to its propensity to kill and eat tankmates (including a toby). Wrasses are very heavy sleepers, and if your specimen doesn't bury itself in the substrate, the eel may take it down one PM.

Sorry I should have added I did my research before adding the sne to the tank and am well aware they can't see at all.. My original question was meant as 'how do I feed my eel enough without my lion stealing it first' but I think I found a way that works, had some happy fish at feeding time today!

Btw why do you say un thawed food is bad? Although I always thaw mine I've never sen any thing to suggest I shouldn't?

12/17/2013, 05:20 PM	#1
Ajphillips Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 95	My lion is soooo greedy! Ok, so a few members will probably remember previous posts of mine, and my volitans is doing great! Loves his frozen food and is absolutely huge!! He is about 14'' wing to wing an about 8'' long -he is only about 6 months old! So yeah I realise he is gonna be a beast even for a volitans! My problem is he really won't stop eating! I feed all my guys every other day, sometimes a two day gap if I think my lion is still a bit fat... But I added a snowflake eel to the tank an he is going a little wild trying to get fed before the lion steals it! The lion has even started 'guarding' food he can't eat (frozen shrimp cubes I feed to the others) he is an eating machine! I'm a bit stumped as to how I can make sure all my guys get fed! Any ideas?

12/17/2013, 06:45 PM	#3
BossHoggin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Compton, CA Posts: 198	I use tongs similar to what a janitor would use comprised of stainless steel and plastic so it does not seeze up with rust. With a firm grip i can get food to my black edged moray without over feeding my miniatus grouper. The grouper has a similar jaw structure and feeding technique to your volitan. It has realised it cannot rip or suck the food off of the tongs. That would solve the feeding of the puffer and eel. I would get an algae clip and some nori to feed the foxface if you do not have already. I would use pe mysis instead of smaller mysis and brine shrimp since your foxface and wrasse are decent sized considering the lionfish has not eaten them. Too small of food can be lazily picked at and mostly settle amd rot IME. Thaw the cubes first then add the mysis into a flow source. No way the volitan can guard it all at once as it blows around. __________________ Josh 60B mixed reef w/ 33G sump/refugium 125G FOWLR w/ Eshopps R_300

12/19/2013, 05:14 PM	#10
Ajphillips Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 95	My boy I'll add more as I take em!

12/19/2013, 06:20 PM	#12
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 5,087	The reason your eel goes so crazy is because they have terrible eyesight, but a good sense of smell. When the food is in the tank, the scent goes everywhere, so the eel runs around trying to find it. I kept a SFE for about 15 years, and target feeding it was a must. However, I eventually had to house it alone due to its propensity to kill and eat tankmates (including a toby). Wrasses are very heavy sleepers, and if your specimen doesn't bury itself in the substrate, the eel may take it down one PM. __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

12/17/2013, 05:34 PM	#2
Ajphillips Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 95	Further info :- tank mates are foxface rabbit fish, valentini puffer, golden wrass and now a snowflake eel. Food is a chopped mix of lance fish, ocean squid, brine shrimp an mysis shrimp. I freeze this an cut it into bite size chunks for him though the others like it too

12/18/2013, 02:13 AM	#4
shse666 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 116	I have feeding tongs and one of those glow in the dark acrylic rods that you seen used at frag swaps to point out corals and such. Th big Volly knows that tongs are for food. Orange tap sticks means he has to move or in some cases go hide behind his rock. Took around 5 taps on his tail for his fishy brain to work it out. Stick and carrot. I pretty much have control of his behavior now. Picked up this trick from the lair.

12/19/2013, 12:08 PM	#7
Ajphillips Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 95	Thanks for the advice guys, to answer a few comments, I do defrost food first, I let it stand for about 20 mins so it retains some form of consistency before feeding, I do target my lion to feed first though that isn't hard he seeks me out at feeding time! I may have to get a feeding stick just for my eel though as he is hopeless at finding food, he knows it's there an goes wild but usually swims right past it 3 or 4 times before he finally finds it, meanwhile going crazy all over the tank! In terms of the others getting eaten, maybe in a year it could be a possibility the eel might have a go but honestly my lion can't even eat half a lance fish whole yet, there is no way he will attempt my puffer or wrass! I admit a fully grown lion an a juv wrass or puffer would be lunch but that's a long way away an all have a lot more growing to do!

12/19/2013, 04:49 PM	#9
Ajphillips Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 95	My wrasse is about 6-7'' at the moment and my lion is still a juv, albeit a very large one his jaw has not squared out yet so he can only eat quite small things of course this will change but we are talking a at least 2x growth before he thinks my wrasse is anything close to edible and that's provided my wrasse dosnt grow at all! My wrasse seems to spend his time in the rocks only bombing out to steal food so I think he is good! The eel on the other hand is an absolute terrorist in the tank! His poor vision means he thinks everything is a meal at food time regardless of whether it's venomous or not! My foxface raises it's spines in warning but is usually the one that has to back off! Think I'll have my hands full with him!