Tank upgrade and first sump

TomDug · 02/12/2019, 10:01 PM

Hello, I have a 10 gallon tank with a small ocellaris clown, and a clean up crew. It's running a sponge filter and monthly water changes. I've had my clown in this tank for a year. I cycled it for 6 months and have had near perfect parameters so far. I had an incident where my green star polyps became peppermint shrimp food, and an hair algae bloom. The shrimp and algae are gone now. I've kept freshwater fish for many years, and want to expand my marine setup now. I was thinking of getting a 40g breeder to expand with. I have a 20g high I would also like to use as an sump. I have never changed tanks or had a sump before. I'll probably drill an hole for the sump overflow. I can also keep both the 10 and 40 running simultaneously while cycling. I don't plan on transferring the rock, but I want to add my sponge filter media and sand to the sump. Is there anything I should know about setting up the sump?
Here is my potential stocking plan-
Ocellaris clown x2
Firefish goby
Lawnmower blenny
Valentini puffer
Ether Flame or Coral beauty dwarf angelfish
I have no idea about inverts, most of the shrimp in my area are absurdly overpriced.
I was also thinking about some very easy low maintenance corals or stationary invertebrates.
I would like your help on finding the best stocking plan. Some question about stocking I have are: Are the dwarf angels dangerous to corals? Would the puffer eat my clean up crew? Are there any fish you would add to this tank?
Thanks for reading my post and I would appreciate it if you could add your insight.
Thanks, -TomDug

FireViper · 02/12/2019, 10:12 PM

New to the hobby, but rock flower anemones are awfully pretty. Haven't tried any yet, but perhaps soon. Pretty stationary, from what I'm told.

FireViper · 02/12/2019, 10:13 PM

We have a couple of firefish as well. Pretty, but don't move around a lot.

on the spot · 02/14/2019, 04:50 PM

40B are nice tanks - good size. 50B is the same footprint and doesn't look as crowded with a substrate. Shouldn't add anything to the monthly expense once running either. Something to think about.

Drilling is a good option. There are a number of kits available for this. I'd suggest one that can be setup with a siphon drain. Either "herbie" or "beananimal" style.

High tanks are awkward for sumps. Getting stuff in and out while it's in the stand can be a chore.

dkeller_nc · 02/16/2019, 06:45 PM

I won't comment on the stocking list other than to say that I don't see any red flags. Other members may have more relevant suggestions.

Instead, I'll comment on the tank setup from an engineer's perspective, as well as a "don't ask me how I know that" set of experiences.

First off, there may be an issue with the combination of the 40 gallon breeder and the 10 gallon sump. One's a convenience issue, the other one is a potential property damage problem. The first one is that a 10 gallon's footprint is quite small. If you intend this tank to gradually move from a fish/invert tank to reef tank, you're definitely going to require a skimmer in addition to the heater and sump pump. Many, if not most, reefers also find it necessary to run a small reactor and reactor pump in their sump at some point, if for no other reason than to have a place to put granular activated carbon and granular ferric oxide.

The 10 gallon's footprint will limit your choices because of the real estate, and while you certainly can choose equipment that will fit, working on that equipment will be somewhat cramped. This is the "DAMHIKT" part - I've run a 10 gallon tank for a sump on a 20 gallon nano since 2004. I have exactly what I mentioned, and while it does fit, there is little room to work on the equipment when necessary.

The second, potential property damage part of the equation is that you can anticipate running that 10 gallon sump about 1/2 - 3/4s full to ensure that you have the proper depth for the skimmer and the return pump. That means that at most you have 5 gallons of overhead before disaster occurs when the power fails (and it will, at some point). Depending on precisely which overflow box you choose and how accurately you drill the tank, you might, or might not, be able to fit the drain-down into the sump when the pump's turned off.

This is partly why package tanks from Red Sea, Innovative Marine, Waterbox and others are popular. Not only do you get an all-in-one ready to go tank, but it's specifically been designed and tested so that the scenario I described above does not happen.

However, that does not mean that you can't DIY a nice tank with a self-built stand, drilled overflow and return and a build-your-own sump. I'm just pointing out the design considerations, so you'll have to assess your own DIY skills and interest in doing so to decide whether it makes more sense to purchase a tank package, or roll your own.

02/12/2019, 10:01 PM	#1
TomDug Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 3	Tank upgrade and first sump Hello, I have a 10 gallon tank with a small ocellaris clown, and a clean up crew. It's running a sponge filter and monthly water changes. I've had my clown in this tank for a year. I cycled it for 6 months and have had near perfect parameters so far. I had an incident where my green star polyps became peppermint shrimp food, and an hair algae bloom. The shrimp and algae are gone now. I've kept freshwater fish for many years, and want to expand my marine setup now. I was thinking of getting a 40g breeder to expand with. I have a 20g high I would also like to use as an sump. I have never changed tanks or had a sump before. I'll probably drill an hole for the sump overflow. I can also keep both the 10 and 40 running simultaneously while cycling. I don't plan on transferring the rock, but I want to add my sponge filter media and sand to the sump. Is there anything I should know about setting up the sump? Here is my potential stocking plan- Ocellaris clown x2 Firefish goby Lawnmower blenny Valentini puffer Ether Flame or Coral beauty dwarf angelfish I have no idea about inverts, most of the shrimp in my area are absurdly overpriced. I was also thinking about some very easy low maintenance corals or stationary invertebrates. I would like your help on finding the best stocking plan. Some question about stocking I have are: Are the dwarf angels dangerous to corals? Would the puffer eat my clean up crew? Are there any fish you would add to this tank? Thanks for reading my post and I would appreciate it if you could add your insight. Thanks, -TomDug

02/12/2019, 10:12 PM	#2
FireViper Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 120	New to the hobby, but rock flower anemones are awfully pretty. Haven't tried any yet, but perhaps soon. Pretty stationary, from what I'm told.

02/12/2019, 10:13 PM	#3
FireViper Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 120	We have a couple of firefish as well. Pretty, but don't move around a lot.

02/14/2019, 04:50 PM	#4
on the spot Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Michigan Posts: 1,010	40B are nice tanks - good size. 50B is the same footprint and doesn't look as crowded with a substrate. Shouldn't add anything to the monthly expense once running either. Something to think about. Drilling is a good option. There are a number of kits available for this. I'd suggest one that can be setup with a siphon drain. Either "herbie" or "beananimal" style. High tanks are awkward for sumps. Getting stuff in and out while it's in the stand can be a chore.

02/16/2019, 06:45 PM	#5
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	I won't comment on the stocking list other than to say that I don't see any red flags. Other members may have more relevant suggestions. Instead, I'll comment on the tank setup from an engineer's perspective, as well as a "don't ask me how I know that" set of experiences. First off, there may be an issue with the combination of the 40 gallon breeder and the 10 gallon sump. One's a convenience issue, the other one is a potential property damage problem. The first one is that a 10 gallon's footprint is quite small. If you intend this tank to gradually move from a fish/invert tank to reef tank, you're definitely going to require a skimmer in addition to the heater and sump pump. Many, if not most, reefers also find it necessary to run a small reactor and reactor pump in their sump at some point, if for no other reason than to have a place to put granular activated carbon and granular ferric oxide. The 10 gallon's footprint will limit your choices because of the real estate, and while you certainly can choose equipment that will fit, working on that equipment will be somewhat cramped. This is the "DAMHIKT" part - I've run a 10 gallon tank for a sump on a 20 gallon nano since 2004. I have exactly what I mentioned, and while it does fit, there is little room to work on the equipment when necessary. The second, potential property damage part of the equation is that you can anticipate running that 10 gallon sump about 1/2 - 3/4s full to ensure that you have the proper depth for the skimmer and the return pump. That means that at most you have 5 gallons of overhead before disaster occurs when the power fails (and it will, at some point). Depending on precisely which overflow box you choose and how accurately you drill the tank, you might, or might not, be able to fit the drain-down into the sump when the pump's turned off. This is partly why package tanks from Red Sea, Innovative Marine, Waterbox and others are popular. Not only do you get an all-in-one ready to go tank, but it's specifically been designed and tested so that the scenario I described above does not happen. However, that does not mean that you can't DIY a nice tank with a self-built stand, drilled overflow and return and a build-your-own sump. I'm just pointing out the design considerations, so you'll have to assess your own DIY skills and interest in doing so to decide whether it makes more sense to purchase a tank package, or roll your own.