Eheim 1262 for a return from sump to 75 gallon RR?

[keeperofthefish]

I remain very confused about how many times an hour the tank should turn over to and from the sump.

I have an AGA 75RR with the megaflow kit (Durso from the 1", return to the 3/4" with twin exits). According to my calculations, with a one inch bulkhead and a vertical drop of about four inches, the overflow from the tank to the sump can be a maximum of 500-600 gph. So I am assuming that I want a pump that can push about that. The sump is part of a previous system and drilled so I can use an external pump if I wish--or I could just cap it. I think that in the interest of building an easily accessible system, I'll go external. Now the hard part--picking a darn pump!

I want very, very quiet, and it is quite obvious to me that with this system I don't need anything from Sequence (do they make anything on this low end of the spectrum?). I am a huge fan of the reliability and energy efficiency of Eheim pumps (from my experience with freshwater canisters, that is) and I am really contemplating the 1262. According to my calculations, I face about 4.3 feet of head loss. The 1262 would appear to offer in the high 500s gallons per hour of performance at that level. So this strikes me as a great pump for my needs! If I run this pump, it means I will be turning over my tank roughly 7-8 times an hour. In case it matters, I'm running in sump a EuroReef ES 5-3 with a Sedra KSP3500 with a max flow of 350 GPH.

Any thoughts on this? Any thoughts on running it external versus capping my bulkhead and running it in the sump? It all seems too simple... Obviously I'll need more flow. I don't plan on running a closed loop, but maybe on setting up Tunzes or modded MaxiJets to get some serious flow going. Any recommendations out there from fellow 75 gallon reefers?

[samsfishnchips]

keeperofthefish,

hi there,

yes that pump will be more than enough for return purposes and will add a bit of flow.

here is a good read name

Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

again thats just for return purposes, you will them need to find out how much intank flow you will need, and accomplish that rate with either a closed loop, or energy efficient pumps such as the tunzes

you didn't't state what you were planing to keep, that will determine how much flow you will want, need, things like sps, softies, sand, placement of corals if any, ect will impact that decision,

example,

Well, did you check out the two TOTM threads I linked to above? The 320g by DNA with the 100gph overflow is a prime example of what I am talking about.

sam

[keeperofthefish]

Awesome reply. Thanks very much. I am really new to the reef game and would like to keep a mix to experiment and see what I really like. I envision a mixed reef for starter's with LPS and SPS and perhaps some leather corals. I would also very much like to keep clams. I guess I just sound like the stereotypical novice. Tunzes are of course what I'd really like, and it sounds like they pay for themselves over their lifetime in that you get great results and they are energy efficient and are built to last. That said, I am quite confused in terms of what kind of Tunzes to get! Any ideas?

[Andy O]

I am using the 1262 for the return in my 90 gallon. More than enough for the tank and very happy with it. Also, Eheim makes an excellent product as well. Creates a lot of water turbulance when it returns thorugh the loc line.

[samsfishnchips]

keeperofthefish,

for a 75g, rvitko, tunze rep, likes a wavebox and one 6000 on the multi-controller(7095), but thats barebottom (no sand)

the wavebox will give about 3/4" wave on the 75g, but does take a bit of room

so my suggest if indeed you want tunze's get one 6000 and a single controller(if money is not problem 7095), will give excellent flow and if down the road you want to dedicate more into sps for example, you can add more as you go, need arises,

on my 90g BB, sps dominant, I running 2-6000, 7095, and two penductors (to keep bottom clean), when corals filled it up nicely, I most likely will buy a pair of transformers to update my 6000 > 6100

so in theory is best to start at one point and add flow as you go, this has been notice on sps specially, the more flow the thicker the branches, so is best to give it enough flow for nice medium branches and them increase the flow as they growth, but that really applies to all corals, as time passes things filled in more and thus you will need more and more flow to reach the same spots,

good luck with your choice,

sam

[Blorton]

IMO, you may find that the 1262 is almost too much pump for what you are doing. Be advised that most report that the published flow tables are very conservative. If I were you, I'd try a pair of penductors since the eheims can really put up with head pressure.

As a point of reference, I just plugged in a 1260 yesterday on a venturi skimmer, and the pump is just incredible. You'll be more than happy with the 1262.

Btw, this thread has some nice reports on what people have seen when replacing other pumps with the 1262:

linky

Fwiw, I'm considering doing the AGA RR 65 in the home office and will probably go with the 1260 for return duties. The obective there will be low wattage and noise.

Hth!
Dan

[keeperofthefish]

The 1262 it is. I'm just conceptualizing the plumbing now... The fun part is about to begin. Anyone have any thoughts on running the 1262 in tank versus externally?

[samsfishnchips]

Originally posted by keeperofthefish
The 1262 it is. I'm just conceptualizing the plumbing now... The fun part is about to begin. Anyone have any thoughts on running the 1262 in tank versus externally?

I would consider it better submerge for several reasons

1. easier to clean

2. less likely of leaks

3. its not truly a externally pump, is still a water cooled pump.

4. less noise

5. cheaper and easier to hook

the only reason to hook it external, it would be for heat reduction, but I though you will see a significant difference, its still 80w,

sam

[sjm817]

I would say the 1262 is too strong. You would be better off with a 1260.

[keeperofthefish]

Any reason why you think the 1262 is "too strong"? And what would be the consequences of this? Some flow from the return would be nice, and I know that the overflow can handle it, with a 1.5" return to the tank (not 1", as I previously stated).

And thanks again for the advice. I was leaning heavily toward running it submerged, and now I'm going to go ahead with that as planned.

[Blorton]

Time to back up a little.

Your drain should be able to handle what the 1262 puts out after those restrictions.(Plus penductors)

The issue is that many find the flowing higher volumes through the overflow and sump produces too much noise. (That's why I'd go with no more than the 1260 on the 65 I mentioned.)

Most people prefer to get adequate flow within a tank via powerheads/seio's or tunzes. Getting there through a honkin return pump takes a lot more power and will generate more noise.

As a reference on the whole noise thing - I'm finding my 1260 to be not as stone quiet as many report. Yes, it's not as loud as a mag, but it does still make it's presence known. For comparison, I have a csl t4 pump, and even when flowing 1200gph against no load in a bucket, it is as quiet as a tomb. Very impressive and I may well end up running that family for the office tank. (the t3 carries an impressive pressure rating.)

For the guy concerned about heat issues - these pumps are not "water-cooled". They shed heat into whatever is around them. Water cooling implies cooling passages plumbed through the motor - items certainly not present on mags, eheims or even the csl/poseidon pumps.

For the 75, I'd run the pump externally. It's not that much trouble to put a foam pad under the pump to reduce noise, and unions with ball valves aren't that hard to work with.

Cheers!
Dan

[sjm817]

3 - 5x display flow. That is 225 - 375 GPH for a 75G tank. 1260 is overkill. Eheim underrates their pumps. You will have a TON of flow with a 1262.

[dandydan]

HI
I have just replaced a OR3500 with a 1262 in a 75gallon, return pointing slightly down behind the rocks, no problem at all and quiet and far superior going by levels in the sump to the ocean runner, go for it, you can never have enough, you can also t it off in the tank of course.
I have heard nothing but praise for these pumps

[keeperofthefish]

I appreciate all of these great comments! Dandydan obviously has firsthand experience and I think that more flow is a good thing in this case, as I will be using only 4 x MaxiJet 400's on a wave timer for the time being (sell a kidney for some Tunze, maybe? do they have a direct exchange program?). Of course, there are all of those arguments about reducing flow to allow the protein to work more effectively, etc., but I think I'll give it a try and can always just use this for a closed loop and get a lower volume pump if need be.

[keeperofthefish]

I just realized that DandyDan is in the UK. Apparently the 60hz vs 50 hz (Europe) electrical makes a difference and the end result is that the pumps perform at higher rates in the U.S... So now I'm getting nervous and thinking that the 1260 is the way to go. I think I may call Marine Depot tomorrow and see about changing my order...

[samsfishnchips]

keeperofthefish,

I would personally go with the 1262 vs the 1260

the difference in price, $10 and you get plenty more flow, with a mere 15w increase in power usable

better control of more, with a valve you can control flow to your liking, more can be reduce,

down the road you want to add, phosban reactor, calcium reactor, uv, ect, no problem just hook it to the return pump.

I can't justified the power difference of example A

A. return pump, mag24 use for return intank flow (2400gph) at 265w

B. return pump, 1260 65w, tunze 6000 ( 1850gph + whats left of ehiem) at 80w with more flow than A

but I see the 1262 with more uses and more versatile than a 1260 for a mere 10 bucks, and 15w more, JMO

sam

[sjm817]

I also have first hand exp (sort of). I had a Mag9.5 which has less flow than a 1262. It had too much flow for a 90G/30g sump. I now run a 1260 and it is much better.

You will get different opinions here. I'm firmly in the "too big a return pump is not good" camp.

You may want to read this thread:

Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

[keeperofthefish]

You guys don't make it easy! Both of you have given solid advice. But I'm a future oriented kind of guy and do plan in the not so distant future in investing in possibly a chiller (hope this won't be necessary--but summer is hot here) or a reactor. So I'm going with the 1262. I'm going to plumb it external with flexible tubing and with true union ball valves on either end--thank goodness for Savko.com. I'll post pics here. And document my triumph or failure! And then I'll be cursing one of you, thanking one of you--or just cursing myself!

[sjm817]

Hey, all you can do is do your research and hope for the best! Good luck. Either way, you are getting a great pump.

[skjardel]

I have 1262 with 75G Oceanic RR and I'm very happy. I'm running external and its very quiet and not too much flow. In fact I've since added a Tunze 6100 to the tank. I've plumbed (there is a lenghty posting on this here on ReefCentral) my overflow pipes with valves to control flow so they are virtually silent. I have one overflow that is not restricted and it acts as an emergency overflow if the main can't handle the flow or is blocked. Hasn't happened yet.

[BeanAnimal]

I run 1500 GPH through my sump, to much maybe? Does it hurt anything, certainly not. The 1262 is a nice pump and well within the "small return pump" category. I have a single 1" bulkhead for a closed loop, and use another 1500 gph pump on that. I therefore must rely on my return pump for the added flow (no room on a 75 for butt ugly powerheads).


The Eheim pumps run just fine external, no need to worry about leaks, they are built very well. Honestly they have proven to bee one of the most reliable pumps on the market.

With regards to running eductors off of these pumps, not likely worth the trouble, they have a bit of usable pressure, but not anywhere near enough to warrent big ugly eductors. Just go with a large CL pump instead.

[samsfishnchips]

Originally posted by keeperofthefish
You guys don't make it easy! Both of you have given solid advice. But I'm a future oriented kind of guy and do plan in the not so distant future in investing in possibly a chiller (hope this won't be necessary--but summer is hot here) or a reactor. So I'm going with the 1262. I'm going to plumb it external with flexible tubing and with true union ball valves on either end--thank goodness for Savko.com. I'll post pics here. And document my triumph or failure! And then I'll be cursing one of you, thanking one of you--or just cursing myself!

and who said reefkeeping was easy

wait until you need to decide on filtration, lighting, worrying about parasites, ect, thats when is going to get fun

sam

[dandydan]

Hi,
You can always put a valve in the return line and throttle the pump down a bit, in my experience it does the pump no harm and actually reduces electrical consumption. But over there you could even split the output put electric valves on each line and build your own wave maker.
I mean over there the amount you boys pay in dollars we pay the same amount in pounds.

[keeperofthefish]

Thanks Dandydan! I am indeed taking your first suggestion. The second is worthy and interesting--though I don't know what the wear and tear would be on the pump with constant on and off cycling. I also don't know how reefers make in Europe, honestly. Between electrical costs and higher taxes on consumer goods (VAT, etc.)--not to mention far less competition between sellers due to regulatory constraints on businesses. But I guess that's why many of the best manufacturers are European. And energy prices in the U.S. certainly aren't going down in the near future. I think it's time we think about switching over to more energy friendly aquarium techniques here. It is all about efficient return pumps, Tunze and other high-flow low-wattage powerheads and T5 lighting. I am going with all of those on my new tank. I should do my calculations on estimated savings.

[ShadowReef]

I, too, will eventually be getting a 75 gallon tank. I think after all the reading I have been convinced that a Tunze 6000 on a single controller will be the way to go. My question though, is an Eheim 1250 too small a return pump?