Will B-Ionic cloud water for days?

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 12:43 PM

I dosed B-Ionic and Reef Solution yesterday, and my water is cloudy today. I was going to purchase Black Diamond carbon at the LFS yesterday, but the owner said that it would take all the B-Ionic and R.S. out--according to him, I may as well not dose anything if I am running carbon, including a kalk drip (I am not doing this yet).

My tank is only a week old. I used Cycle and a cocktail shrimp but never had an ammonia spike--my LR was well-cured. I'm currently running a phosban 150 reactor, a skimmer, and I have a mag drive pump rated at 2400 gph in my sump. SG is 1.025. I tested this morning for alk, but I couldn't get a reading; I am using salifert tests and used the entire syringe of regent without a change in color. I had just added a lot of strong salt solution to raise the SG, so figured I should wait until tomorrow to run my tests.

Is it normal for the tank to be cloudy at this point? Will carbon cancel out the B-Ionic and Reef Solution doses?

NCreefwannabe · 03/12/2006, 12:47 PM

no unless you dosed way to much. it should be gone easily within an 10-20 after dosing. and thats even a long time lol.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 12:54 PM

I used according to LFS direction--I have a 120g with about 130 lbs live rock and 116 lbs of aragonite/fine sand mix. I have a 50g sump. He told me to put a full dosing cap of each in the sump every day, along with three caps of Reef Solution daily to kick-start the coraline growth.

DMK · 03/12/2006, 01:03 PM

no

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 01:07 PM

no what?

catdoc · 03/12/2006, 01:16 PM

When I add the 2-part, it is cloudy directly in the stream where the additive is added but that only lasts about 5 to 10 seconds. It's never enough to make the whole tank cloudy. And I do run carbon all the time. I don't know what Reef Solution is though, can't speak for that. I've not had problems getting coralline going, that stuff grows like mad in my tanks without adding anything to boost it!

cw150 · 03/12/2006, 01:24 PM

Carbon won't 'take out' alkalinity or calcium added by a 2-part supplement. I'd look for a different LFS that understands the hobby better.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 01:25 PM

I added the Ionic to the sump as per LFS direction--would that cloud the entire tank? They told me to never, ever put an additive directly into the tank. It was clear until this morning.

smcnally · 03/12/2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cw150
Carbon won't 'take out' alkalinity or calcium added by a 2-part supplement. I'd look for a different LFS that understands the hobby better.

I agree...That's basic knowledge of the hobby, and if that LFS said that, I'd find a new one.

mikeatjac · 03/12/2006, 01:29 PM

..... and a water change.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 01:29 PM

Thanks cw150. I have read many posts from those who run carbon constantly. That's why I was wondering. Other than this point, they have been right on with everything. They have (4) 500 gal reef tanks that are beautiful and give advice by what works for them. According to them, you can't get better filtration than that you get from rock, sand, coral, and good water movement.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 01:32 PM

catdoc, how much B-Ionic do you dose? As I said, I put in a full dosing cap of each. Was that too much? Your tank is slightly bigger than mine.

CeeGee · 03/12/2006, 01:36 PM

you need to check your levels using a good test kit immediately and keep checking them (at least weekly) so that you know if you are adding the correct amount of the 2 part or not.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but the instructions are right there on the bottle, follow them. I would find myself another store to deal with.

This website is invaluable. Get your answers here if there is no other store around and don't listen to another thing those people tell you. You can always order stuff from the internet and hopefully there are people near you to get frags from.

I started out adding less than 5 cc's per day and my tank is half the size of yours. The size of the tank really has no meaning here. IF you don't have corals absorbing the alk and calcium then it wouldn't go down. You add this stuff according to how much your corals are using not how big your tank is.

You could have easily killed everything in your tank with the advice they gave you.

Craig Lambert · 03/12/2006, 01:44 PM

"I had just added a lot of strong salt solution to raise the SG"

What specificly does this mean? I have a feeling it is the source of your problem.

catdoc · 03/12/2006, 01:57 PM

I'm actually using the recipe from Randy for 3-part additive.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
I'm not dosing kalk right now, but for B-ionic I'd probably be dosing at least 2 dosing cups per day. I am currently adding 3 dosing cups (are they 30cc each, I forget) of Randy's on the alk and calcium. I've got a pretty big sump, my total water volume is around 230 gal. I need to get a calcium or kalk reactor, just haven't gotten to it yet.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 02:15 PM

CeeGee, Thanks for the advice. I did read the instructions--the LFS gave me advice based on the fact that I have nothing in the tank yet and had asked about coraline growth. The water volume doesn't matter? I don't know anyone else with a reef tank and my town is very small--no sw clubs within 60 miles.

Craig, my SG was way low, so I mixed this morning to get it up to 1.025.

catdoc, yes, the dosing cups are 30 cc. If you are dosing 2/day, I don't understand why one would have clouded my tank--except that I have nothing to use it. I guess I need a calc reactor as well. I'll check out Randy's thread.

I had hoped to get nitrites to 0 before doing a water change, but guess I will do one today. Nitrites are just above 1 and nitrates are 50.

Craig Lambert · 03/12/2006, 02:26 PM

I think the salt may have clouded your tank. You should let salt and RODI water mix overnight at the very minimum before adding it to the tank. ( A couple of days is better). What type of salt mix are you using? And what are you using to measure SG? If you followed the salt mix directions, your SG may have been a bit low, but but not lower than 1.022-23. (A refractometer is a great investment).

When you raised SG this morning, how did you go about it?

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 02:37 PM

I usually let my salt/ro water mix for at least 3 days before adding to my 80g during water changes. I was just trying to get the SG up in the 120. I have a refractometer.

This morning I just mixed a very strong solution in a bucket until dissolved and added it to my sump a little at a time. I mixed heavy to bring up what was in the tank (1.020) to 1.025.

So, if it is the salt mix, the cloudiness will go away? I just checked PH, which is 8.4.

Is there a gizmo like a refractometer for alk and calc? I hate the test kits.

yogisfriend · 03/12/2006, 02:41 PM

BTW, I am using Oceanic salt

CeeGee · 03/15/2006, 11:28 PM

The coraline will come on its own. No need to use any tricks. The only trick is to give it time to grow.

21Reefman · 03/15/2006, 11:33 PM

Did you remove the "cocktail" shrimp??? Just curious.

Chordstriker · 03/15/2006, 11:39 PM

Agreed, with the tank being a week old and adding all the fresh salt and new sand in the tank, there ought to be enough calcium to get everything started without any help. If you try to jumpstart it too much it'll make your first diatom break out a doozy.

21Reefman · 03/15/2006, 11:42 PM

Q: What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic?
A: Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a Dog

Craig, I love that!!!

21Reefman · 03/15/2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chordstriker
If you try to jumpstart it too much it'll make your first diatom break out a doozy.

What is this about?? Please explain. I think I did it!

Fmellish · 03/16/2006, 12:05 AM

Just remember, if you do it too much, you'll go blind.

03/12/2006, 12:43 PM	#1
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	Will B-Ionic cloud water for days? I dosed B-Ionic and Reef Solution yesterday, and my water is cloudy today. I was going to purchase Black Diamond carbon at the LFS yesterday, but the owner said that it would take all the B-Ionic and R.S. out--according to him, I may as well not dose anything if I am running carbon, including a kalk drip (I am not doing this yet). My tank is only a week old. I used Cycle and a cocktail shrimp but never had an ammonia spike--my LR was well-cured. I'm currently running a phosban 150 reactor, a skimmer, and I have a mag drive pump rated at 2400 gph in my sump. SG is 1.025. I tested this morning for alk, but I couldn't get a reading; I am using salifert tests and used the entire syringe of regent without a change in color. I had just added a lot of strong salt solution to raise the SG, so figured I should wait until tomorrow to run my tests. Is it normal for the tank to be cloudy at this point? Will carbon cancel out the B-Ionic and Reef Solution doses? __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 12:54 PM	#3
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	I used according to LFS direction--I have a 120g with about 130 lbs live rock and 116 lbs of aragonite/fine sand mix. I have a 50g sump. He told me to put a full dosing cap of each in the sump every day, along with three caps of Reef Solution daily to kick-start the coraline growth. __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 01:07 PM	#5
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	no what? __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 01:16 PM	#6
catdoc Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 1,449	When I add the 2-part, it is cloudy directly in the stream where the additive is added but that only lasts about 5 to 10 seconds. It's never enough to make the whole tank cloudy. And I do run carbon all the time. I don't know what Reef Solution is though, can't speak for that. I've not had problems getting coralline going, that stuff grows like mad in my tanks without adding anything to boost it! __________________ Christy Animals are such agreeable friends - they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms. -George Eliot Current Tank Info: 55 gallon w/spawning onyx percs, bangaii pair & pink spotted goby w/ gbta, softies

03/12/2006, 01:25 PM	#8
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	I added the Ionic to the sump as per LFS direction--would that cloud the entire tank? They told me to never, ever put an additive directly into the tank. It was clear until this morning. __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 12:47 PM	#2
NCreefwannabe Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 953	no unless you dosed way to much. it should be gone easily within an 10-20 after dosing. and thats even a long time lol.

03/12/2006, 01:03 PM	#4
DMK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: central NJ Posts: 2,494	no

03/12/2006, 01:24 PM	#7
cw150 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: nw suburbs chicago Posts: 330	Carbon won't 'take out' alkalinity or calcium added by a 2-part supplement. I'd look for a different LFS that understands the hobby better.

03/12/2006, 01:29 PM	#10
mikeatjac Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 2,433	..... and a water change. __________________ Red Sea Reefer 525 - BK 160- G5 Blue - GHL

03/12/2006, 01:32 PM	#12
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	catdoc, how much B-Ionic do you dose? As I said, I put in a full dosing cap of each. Was that too much? Your tank is slightly bigger than mine. __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 01:36 PM	#13
CeeGee Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 3,272	you need to check your levels using a good test kit immediately and keep checking them (at least weekly) so that you know if you are adding the correct amount of the 2 part or not. Not trying to sound like a jerk but the instructions are right there on the bottle, follow them. I would find myself another store to deal with. This website is invaluable. Get your answers here if there is no other store around and don't listen to another thing those people tell you. You can always order stuff from the internet and hopefully there are people near you to get frags from. I started out adding less than 5 cc's per day and my tank is half the size of yours. The size of the tank really has no meaning here. IF you don't have corals absorbing the alk and calcium then it wouldn't go down. You add this stuff according to how much your corals are using not how big your tank is. You could have easily killed everything in your tank with the advice they gave you. __________________ My algae WAS special. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon display, 40 gallon breeder sump, RLSS R6i, ATI Powermodule, Apex, Ecotech MP40's

03/12/2006, 01:44 PM	#14
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	"I had just added a lot of strong salt solution to raise the SG" What specificly does this mean? I have a feeling it is the source of your problem. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

03/12/2006, 01:57 PM	#15
catdoc Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 1,449	I'm actually using the recipe from Randy for 3-part additive. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php I'm not dosing kalk right now, but for B-ionic I'd probably be dosing at least 2 dosing cups per day. I am currently adding 3 dosing cups (are they 30cc each, I forget) of Randy's on the alk and calcium. I've got a pretty big sump, my total water volume is around 230 gal. I need to get a calcium or kalk reactor, just haven't gotten to it yet. __________________ Christy Animals are such agreeable friends - they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms. -George Eliot Current Tank Info: 55 gallon w/spawning onyx percs, bangaii pair & pink spotted goby w/ gbta, softies

03/12/2006, 02:15 PM	#16
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	CeeGee, Thanks for the advice. I did read the instructions--the LFS gave me advice based on the fact that I have nothing in the tank yet and had asked about coraline growth. The water volume doesn't matter? I don't know anyone else with a reef tank and my town is very small--no sw clubs within 60 miles. Craig, my SG was way low, so I mixed this morning to get it up to 1.025. catdoc, yes, the dosing cups are 30 cc. If you are dosing 2/day, I don't understand why one would have clouded my tank--except that I have nothing to use it. I guess I need a calc reactor as well. I'll check out Randy's thread. I had hoped to get nitrites to 0 before doing a water change, but guess I will do one today. Nitrites are just above 1 and nitrates are 50. __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 02:26 PM	#17
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	I think the salt may have clouded your tank. You should let salt and RODI water mix overnight at the very minimum before adding it to the tank. ( A couple of days is better). What type of salt mix are you using? And what are you using to measure SG? If you followed the salt mix directions, your SG may have been a bit low, but but not lower than 1.022-23. (A refractometer is a great investment). When you raised SG this morning, how did you go about it? __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

03/12/2006, 02:37 PM	#18
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	I usually let my salt/ro water mix for at least 3 days before adding to my 80g during water changes. I was just trying to get the SG up in the 120. I have a refractometer. This morning I just mixed a very strong solution in a bucket until dissolved and added it to my sump a little at a time. I mixed heavy to bring up what was in the tank (1.020) to 1.025. So, if it is the salt mix, the cloudiness will go away? I just checked PH, which is 8.4. Is there a gizmo like a refractometer for alk and calc? I hate the test kits. __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/12/2006, 02:41 PM	#19
yogisfriend Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern CA Posts: 141	BTW, I am using Oceanic salt __________________ Never to be squandered, this miracle of a human being. "To educate a man in the mind and not the morals is to educate a menace to society" T. Roosevelt

03/15/2006, 11:28 PM	#20
CeeGee Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 3,272	The coraline will come on its own. No need to use any tricks. The only trick is to give it time to grow. __________________ My algae WAS special. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon display, 40 gallon breeder sump, RLSS R6i, ATI Powermodule, Apex, Ecotech MP40's

03/15/2006, 11:33 PM	#21
21Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago/NW IN Posts: 403	Did you remove the "cocktail" shrimp??? Just curious. __________________ "The significant problems that we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein

03/15/2006, 11:39 PM	#22
Chordstriker Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 24	Agreed, with the tank being a week old and adding all the fresh salt and new sand in the tank, there ought to be enough calcium to get everything started without any help. If you try to jumpstart it too much it'll make your first diatom break out a doozy. __________________ C'mon, darnit. GROW. Current Tank Info: 120g, All Glass #4 sump, Some Skimmin, 3x150 MH, 4x96 Actinic, 4 moons and a bunch of coral. 60g 2 empty magnum350s, a mound of rock and some fish. Skimmin,' too. 4x96 PC fl/ac.

03/15/2006, 11:42 PM	#23
21Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago/NW IN Posts: 403	Q: What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic? A: Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a Dog Craig, I love that!!!

03/16/2006, 12:05 AM	#25
Fmellish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,111	Just remember, if you do it too much, you'll go blind.