Calcium Reactor question

[ReefWorld03]

I feel like a dumb arse asking this but it driving me crazy. I'm having a huge balancing issue with my tanks PH and my Calcium level. If the PH is lowered in my Calc Reactor to maintain the calc level over 400 then I pay the price with very low PH in my tank and I mean low 7.5 and I never reach 7.8. If I increase the PH coming from my reactor to maintain the proper level of PH in my tank 7.8 to 8.0 then my calc level drops way below 300. Any Ideas?

[gil716]

- Where is the effluent entering your tank? Perhaps you're not "blowing off" the excess co2. Most recommend dripping it into a cup and letting it flow over into your sump. I've seen some people pipe their effluent into their skimmers.

- Another thing to consider is adding a 2nd chamber to absorb the excess co2.

- Dripping kalk would be another method of solving your problem, tho this would defeat the purpose of a set it and forget it device.

Newbie disclaimer: I've only owned a CRx for about a month, so I'm just regurgitating what I've read.

[Nanook]

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

[ReefWorld03]

gil716

I do drip the effluent it into a pipe which then overflows into my sump return area.

[drock59]

what has worked for me.....dripping efflent into a vase with an airstone submerged in it. This significantly raises the pH of the effluent, hence raisng the pH of the tank.

[ReefWorld03]

Thanks drock59,

I'll give it try,

[Mogrash]

What was your pH before adding the reactor?

What was your calcium level and alk before adding the reactor?
If your pH was low to begin with your parameters were likely out of whack to start with. A caclium reactor may not be able to increase your calcium demands and alk quick enough...they are better at maintaining. Look in the Reef Chem Forum to find out how to increase your levels to 'normal' settings and then use the calcium reactor to keep them there.

If you take a cup of your aquarium water that measures at pH 7.5 and aerate it outside with an airstone does the pH increase?

If it increases you have an excessive CO2 problem which can be caused among other things by your calcium reactor, poor aeration in your tank, too tight of a lid on your tank (no gas exchange)...

Increasing your pH on the reactor means you likely are dissolving next to nothing. The pH has to be below a certain level to in the reactor to dissolve the media...

Many people seem to drip Kalkwasser or get a kalkwasser stirrer/nielsen reactor to help balance out the pH lowering of a calcium reactor... (kalkwasser should give 11-12pH effluent that helps balance out the low 6.5 pH from a calcium reactor). Make sure you read up on the use if you are unfamiliar...

[drock59]

If your pH was low to begin with your parameters were likely out of whack to start with. A caclium reactor may not be able to increase your calcium demands and alk quick enough...

low pH doesnt necessarily mean params are out of whack. My params are perfect and my pH rarely gets above 8.09.

Calcium reactors are not meant for increase alk/calc, rather maintaining what you have.

Reefworld, have you tried the airstone? Adding a second chamber is super easy and cheap. It would cost somewhere around 40-50 bucks.

[Mogrash]

Um, pH is a parameter. If it is low then it is 'out of whack'.

If your pH is not within the optimal range then your parameters are 'out of whack'. Does it mean your corals will die? Not necessarily...they can and do (well some species at least) survive fine within a decent range.

Calcium reactors naturally drive the pH of the tank lower because you are dripping a low pH effluent into the tank.... CO2 that hasn't been blown off can make that problem worse.

Regardless my question was asking him if his pH was low before the calcium reactor addition. Because if it was then he has either a CO2 problem because of inefficient oxygenation of the water or his parameters are out of whack....

Checking your waters pH after vigorous oxygenation would cost 0 bucks and tell you if its an excess CO2 problem....at which point you can get the airstone and blow the excess CO2 off...

[drock59]

Um, pH is a parameter. If it is low then it is 'out of whack'.

This comment is just rediculous. If its within the normal range 7.8-8.4 then I dont think it is out of whack. However, it can be "low" at 7.8 and still within a good range.

[Mogrash]

It wasn't ridiculous . He said 7.5 to 7.8. Sorry but 7.5 is not in the acceptable range and no where damn close as far as most would be concerned. Or are you going to tell him 7.5 is fine?

Please don't suggest my comments are ridiculous. I think about 99.9% of people would agree with me that 7.5 (on his low scale) is not acceptable pH. It is improper to try and defend your point of view by suggesting someone else is 'rediculous' when you can't even spell the word you are trying to insult me with...

On the other hand, maybe you didn't realize he has a problem of a low pH in the range of 7.5 not exceeding 7.8. Did you even read his problem? Not that your solution won't help...but there are easier and quicker and cheaper means of testing what the actual problem is rather than just assuming the problem is X and treating with solution Y. But hey, whatever floats your boat...

Back to the topic at hand... I would suggest Reefworld also check that his method of testing his pH be double checked or at least make sure the pH meter has been recently calibrated...

[dougchambers]

Mogrash - Dude relax...

Reefworld,

What is your Alk level during the swings. The pH, Alk, and Ca levels all interact. I typically refer to them as the three headed dragon. If you play with one and ignore one or more of the others, they will turn on you.

I would also agree with Mogrash and check your pH meter/test method.

Don't give up. It is possible to run a Ca reactor and maintain high pH levels. We consistently run a pH of 8.29-8.33 with a Ca of 450 and stable Alk levels. If your Alk and Ca aren't balanced, you could be chasing the wrong problem.

-Doug

[skylar]

above idea's are good might also considering starting over... I mean un hook the Ca reactor make sure your water perameters are good then hook it up again to "maintain" them. A Ca reactor really is not designed to Ph or Alk problems....

If it is a single chamber reactor I would agree too much Co2 enteriing the system...Good Luck..you find in the long run a CA reactor is worth it's weight in gold.

[ReefWorld03]

If the reactor is off or when I raise the ph coming from the reactor I can maintain 8.0 to 8.3 no problem. The issue is maintaining the proper calc and alk and ph levels once the reactor is running. I have a 75 gallon maxed out of room for SPS, which is why I am moving into a larger 210 tank this summer. I get my parameters to around the following before starting the reactor. Ca: aprox. 400 Alk: 10 dKH with a Ph as mentioned above. If I don't start the reactor I have trouble maintaining these levels if I start the reactor the PH drops to 7.5 to 7.8 in the tank.

[drock59]

Have you thought of lowering the pH in the reactor while restricting the effluent flow? This will increase the kalk/calc coming out of the reactor while reducing the net amount of CO2. Especially if you put an airstone into a container that you drip effluent into.

[ReefWorld03]

Drock59, I have not tried this but at this point I'm willing to try anything.

[drock59]

YOu mean you havnt tried the air stone or lowering the pH in the reactor or both?

[lvreefer]

Just out of curiosity what type of media are you using? Also with a fully load SPS tank like yours you might just need a second chamber to keep up with the tank demands and use any excess Co2. I agree with the others it sounds like it isn’t dialed in correctly. Are you able to monitor the pH in the reactor?

[lvreefer]

Something else. You mentioned that your calcium drops to 300 and your pH rises. What is your calcium/alk/pH with out the reactor? Remember Calcium Reactors are not used for raising levels they are only used to maintain them.

[ReefWorld03]

Drock59,

I have not tried both together. "lowering the pH in the reactor while restricting the effluent flow"

Lvreefer,
I use ARM for my media and it was just changed maybe 2 months ago. Yes I can monitor the ph coming from tyhe reactor and levels when not using the reactor have already been posted.

[drock59]

Give the combination a try, then look into a second chamber.

[Mogrash]

1)Your daily needs for your aquarium is outpacing the capacity of your reactor.

or as others have stated:

2)Your reactor is not dialed in correctly.

You could actually calculate your daily cal/alk needs if you turn off the reactor, raise them to the levels you want then wait 48hrs and measure again. The difference divided by 2 is your daily demand.


It should then be a matter of maximizing the calcium/alk in your effluent and keeping the effluent slow (add small concentrated amounts slowly rather than unconcentrated amounts often), which is what Drock is trying to get you to do.

Basically Randy Holmes the resident chemist has made a page for this....check out the 'Adjust the Reactor' part, even includes how to measure your alk from the effluent (dilution):

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/reactor.html

It might get you closer to where you have less to tweak...

[ReefWorld03]

This is why I love this forum, great information from so many people. I purchased a MRC CR-5 reactor that should be able to handle way more than my tank, 475 gallons according to MRC. so this is why I figured it would be able to keep up with my system.

[Ewan]

I also had a low pH issue with my reactor. A couple of questions:

1. Does opening a window help? Seriously, my system pH goes from 7.9 to 8.15 by opening a nearby window 1/2".

2. How are you measuring pH, and if it is a meter, when is the last time you've calibrated it? --7.5 is very low. I ended up replacing my probe for my pinpoint meter when I was at the end of my rope. My old probe (which was 2 years old) would stay calibrated for an afternoon. After that, it dipped lower and lower.

Justa couple of points... I think the fresh air comment was already made.

-E.

[ReefWorld03]

Not sure about the opening the window thing, but I have two ph meters and calibrated them monthly, two different brands, actually it was done as recently has last weekend.