2 noise issues (cavitation + vibration) ...Wife not happy

Bluetooth · 06/24/2006, 07:37 PM

I sure hope I explain this properly, as I have been searching this forum for hours, and am not sure I have found my answer. I will try to keep this as short as possible
I have just set up a 150 gal system, corner overflows, sump. I purchased an external pump of fairly low flow (~4x per hour through sump) to keep noise to a minimum (remaining flow will be in system).

I plumbed the intake from sump with flex tube to keep noise down (see the pattern..low noise).
I got everything going today, and ..you guessed it....ALOT of noise.

Noise #1 - seems like cavitation from pump. Noise stops if I turn throttle down outlet, but again not a bunch of flow to start with, hate to turn down.

Noise #2- vibration type noise coming from sump. Stops when I grab the flex tube. Basically resonating in sump. Pump is on rubber padding.

Sooooo... with all of my planning and resarching, I have failed to keep this system quiet.

The only change I can think to make is to go with oversized plumbing from sump to pump. (3/4 intake on pump, with some barbed fittings for flex hose currently) Sump has 1" bulkhead.
If I can't fix this, there will be a great deal on a brand new 150 gallon setup in the very near future. Thanks for any help, sorry so long.

crustin · 06/24/2006, 08:28 PM

try putting some sponge or something that will absorb the vibration

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 08:30 PM

Is the input to the pump restricted in any way? What is the diameter of the input tubing?

What kind of pump is this?

jerehmy · 06/24/2006, 08:52 PM

it all makes noise thats the thing to deal with when you have a sump.

I know that noise really blows but nothing and I mean nothing is quiet.

Good luck

Bluetooth · 06/24/2006, 09:19 PM

Thank you all for your help.

Jerehmy, I realize that there will be some noise, my issue is abnormally loud noise. I have been around many systems that are very quiet.

Bertoni- There are no restrictions on input unless you count barbed fittings, etc to run the flex pipe. No valves or unions. The input tubing is 3/4" inner diameter. The pump is a Blueline 40 HD external. Only 790gph.

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 09:29 PM

Hmm, sounds like a fine setup. Does the cavitation go away if the input water is deeper? Putting a pump deeper in the water often reduces cavitation, I think. Also, I don't know how much the barbs might reduce the flow compared to other types of plumbing, although I'm skeptical that the barbs are an issue.

I don't know anything about that brand of pump. Have you seen another 40 HD in action that is quieter?

Also, lengthening the input tubing might help decouple the pump from the rest of the plumbing. Could you swap in a coil briefly to see how that works?

Bluetooth · 06/24/2006, 09:54 PM

My LFS has this pump running a few of their systems very nicely, that is how I came to purchase this type.

I have not noticed any change in the cavitation when the sump water changes depth. I don't have anymore RO water made to put in to try. Maybe put in the skimmer to raise the water level? I haven't even taken it out of the box yet.

I am sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by a coil. Just lengthen the input line?

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 10:01 PM

Yes, I just mean a coil of tubing between the pump and the connector to the sump, to make that as flexible as possible, just as an experiment.

I don't know that a deeper input would help, but perhaps you could run the experiment to see. Maybe the LFS could swap your pump into their system for a minute or two to see whether the pump itself has a problem?

Bluetooth · 06/24/2006, 10:54 PM

I will try the longer coil to see what happens. Any chance these pumps are just not that good, and I made an expensive mistake? If so, what would be your reccomendation for a replacement. Would submersable be quieter?

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 11:00 PM

I use an Eheim pump for a return, and it seems reasonably quiet. Some aquarists think the submersibles are more failure-prone than external pumps, though.

Bluetooth · 06/24/2006, 11:18 PM

I have done some research...turns out Blueline pumps are also known as Pan-World pumps. Should be decent????????

I have heard Eheims are the best though, so I will keep that in mind.

Thank you very much for taking the time to try to help me. (My wife thanks you also) I'll let you know how it goes.

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 11:26 PM

I don't know much about pumps in general, so I'm out of info. Good luck with the noise. I hope you don't have to buy a new pump.

crumbletop · 06/25/2006, 06:16 AM

My thoughts:

1) A barb in a 3/4" inner diameter tube reduces the ID to less than 3/4".
2) A longer run of tubing with coils, etc, will isolate pump vibration but will increase resistantce.

I'll bet that the pump is having the input restricted. I'd try this first:
1) I believe you can get a 3/4" NPT to 1" barb for the pump side that doesn't reduce the inner diameter at all. I've purchased these from Lowe's. You'd then need to go with 1" tubing to the tank. I'd make this fairly short and see what happens.

2) If the above didn't fix things (but perhaps improved things), I'd get some even larger ID tubing and run that over the top of the sump to the pump and reduce right at the pump. This is to see if even larger diameter tubing will help your problem without having to drill for a larger bulkhead. If that works then you'd need to go with a larger bulkhead/tubing.

Jack

Bluetooth · 06/25/2006, 05:09 PM

You know what, I saw that in my late night stupor, I posted the wrong specifications about my plumbing. It is actually set up as Jack describes in #1 of fixes. I have 1" id tubing running off the barbed fittings, not 3/4'. Not sure how must bigger I could go.

Is it possible that having the barbed fittings unclamped could be causing my cavitation with the introduction of bubbles? I see no bubbles, but just thought of this.

06/24/2006, 08:30 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Is the input to the pump restricted in any way? What is the diameter of the input tubing? What kind of pump is this? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/24/2006, 08:52 PM	#4
jerehmy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: san diego Posts: 511	it all makes noise thats the thing to deal with when you have a sump. I know that noise really blows but nothing and I mean nothing is quiet. Good luck __________________ Fish are the best medecine for body and mind Current Tank Info: 55g, 40g, 29gx2, 60g, 10g African Cichlids (Breeders) 40g SW Reef with a 20g sump/refugium 75lbs prime LR Mag 9.5 SCWD and Remora skimmer, 2x96w PC's

06/24/2006, 09:29 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Hmm, sounds like a fine setup. Does the cavitation go away if the input water is deeper? Putting a pump deeper in the water often reduces cavitation, I think. Also, I don't know how much the barbs might reduce the flow compared to other types of plumbing, although I'm skeptical that the barbs are an issue. I don't know anything about that brand of pump. Have you seen another 40 HD in action that is quieter? Also, lengthening the input tubing might help decouple the pump from the rest of the plumbing. Could you swap in a coil briefly to see how that works? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/24/2006, 10:01 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Yes, I just mean a coil of tubing between the pump and the connector to the sump, to make that as flexible as possible, just as an experiment. I don't know that a deeper input would help, but perhaps you could run the experiment to see. Maybe the LFS could swap your pump into their system for a minute or two to see whether the pump itself has a problem? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/24/2006, 11:00 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I use an Eheim pump for a return, and it seems reasonably quiet. Some aquarists think the submersibles are more failure-prone than external pumps, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/24/2006, 07:37 PM	#1
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	2 noise issues (cavitation + vibration) ...Wife not happy I sure hope I explain this properly, as I have been searching this forum for hours, and am not sure I have found my answer. I will try to keep this as short as possible I have just set up a 150 gal system, corner overflows, sump. I purchased an external pump of fairly low flow (~4x per hour through sump) to keep noise to a minimum (remaining flow will be in system). I plumbed the intake from sump with flex tube to keep noise down (see the pattern..low noise). I got everything going today, and ..you guessed it....ALOT of noise. Noise #1 - seems like cavitation from pump. Noise stops if I turn throttle down outlet, but again not a bunch of flow to start with, hate to turn down. Noise #2- vibration type noise coming from sump. Stops when I grab the flex tube. Basically resonating in sump. Pump is on rubber padding. Sooooo... with all of my planning and resarching, I have failed to keep this system quiet. The only change I can think to make is to go with oversized plumbing from sump to pump. (3/4 intake on pump, with some barbed fittings for flex hose currently) Sump has 1" bulkhead. If I can't fix this, there will be a great deal on a brand new 150 gallon setup in the very near future. Thanks for any help, sorry so long.

06/24/2006, 08:28 PM	#2
crustin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ga. Posts: 470	try putting some sponge or something that will absorb the vibration __________________ never give up Current Tank Info: 90g semi- reef

06/24/2006, 09:19 PM	#5
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	Thank you all for your help. Jerehmy, I realize that there will be some noise, my issue is abnormally loud noise. I have been around many systems that are very quiet. Bertoni- There are no restrictions on input unless you count barbed fittings, etc to run the flex pipe. No valves or unions. The input tubing is 3/4" inner diameter. The pump is a Blueline 40 HD external. Only 790gph.

06/24/2006, 09:54 PM	#7
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	My LFS has this pump running a few of their systems very nicely, that is how I came to purchase this type. I have not noticed any change in the cavitation when the sump water changes depth. I don't have anymore RO water made to put in to try. Maybe put in the skimmer to raise the water level? I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. I am sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by a coil. Just lengthen the input line?

06/24/2006, 10:54 PM	#9
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	I will try the longer coil to see what happens. Any chance these pumps are just not that good, and I made an expensive mistake? If so, what would be your reccomendation for a replacement. Would submersable be quieter?

06/24/2006, 11:18 PM	#11
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	I have done some research...turns out Blueline pumps are also known as Pan-World pumps. Should be decent???????? I have heard Eheims are the best though, so I will keep that in mind. Thank you very much for taking the time to try to help me. (My wife thanks you also) I'll let you know how it goes.

06/24/2006, 11:26 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I don't know much about pumps in general, so I'm out of info. Good luck with the noise. I hope you don't have to buy a new pump. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/25/2006, 06:16 AM	#13
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	My thoughts: 1) A barb in a 3/4" inner diameter tube reduces the ID to less than 3/4". 2) A longer run of tubing with coils, etc, will isolate pump vibration but will increase resistantce. I'll bet that the pump is having the input restricted. I'd try this first: 1) I believe you can get a 3/4" NPT to 1" barb for the pump side that doesn't reduce the inner diameter at all. I've purchased these from Lowe's. You'd then need to go with 1" tubing to the tank. I'd make this fairly short and see what happens. 2) If the above didn't fix things (but perhaps improved things), I'd get some even larger ID tubing and run that over the top of the sump to the pump and reduce right at the pump. This is to see if even larger diameter tubing will help your problem without having to drill for a larger bulkhead. If that works then you'd need to go with a larger bulkhead/tubing. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/25/2006, 05:09 PM	#14
Bluetooth Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 105	You know what, I saw that in my late night stupor, I posted the wrong specifications about my plumbing. It is actually set up as Jack describes in #1 of fixes. I have 1" id tubing running off the barbed fittings, not 3/4'. Not sure how must bigger I could go. Is it possible that having the barbed fittings unclamped could be causing my cavitation with the introduction of bubbles? I see no bubbles, but just thought of this.