amonia levels

beazer · 07/04/2006, 09:22 PM

goes witout saying since I am in the new to hobby forum, but I have just started a saltwater tank. I recieved my first shipment of the package from TBS on Sat July, 1st. I have a 25 gal tank. as of today July 4 the amonia levels are really high. Have been changing the water about twice aday, but it stays around 1 ppm. is this normal, do I need to change the water more, change more of the water or what. as always any help would be appreciated

Beazer

Bebo77 · 07/04/2006, 09:28 PM

To Reef Central

1.. thats not high.. i take it you are cycling your tank....

beazer · 07/04/2006, 09:41 PM

I guess that is what I am doing, what does that mean? the instructions that came with it said I need to get it below .25 before I can get the second shipment.

Beazer

serpentman · 07/04/2006, 09:49 PM

Cycling is simply the term used to describe your tanks progression through the nitrogen cycle. Basically, the bacteria convert Ammonia to less toxic Nitrite another group of bacteria converts Nitrite to even less toxic Nitrate. As this population catches up with the bio-load, ammonia levels decrease followed by a spike in Nitrite. Then those bacteria catch up and so on....

I highly recommend reading up on this as it is foundation on which biological filtration is based. Understanding what is going on with you water chemistry will help you diagnose the majority of issues you will have down the road. Not really fun reading but necessary.

Also a word of caution: by doing water changes too frequently during this process, you will prolong the length of the cycle.

beazer · 07/04/2006, 09:56 PM

so if the 1ppm is ok do I need to leave it along for a while and let the cyle start to work? I read all that but like you said not fun reading. I kinda understand it but can't really say I totally do

Beazer

Bebo77 · 07/04/2006, 10:04 PM

leave the tank for 2 weeks.. doa water change and test water... if you still get high levels of ammonia nitrates or nitrites repeat.. do this until your levels read 0

1 is not " high" but if you are cycling dont even think of adding livestock...

beazer · 07/04/2006, 10:06 PM

bebo are you saying I don't need to change the water or anythign for 2 weeks? kind goes against everthing I have been told to do

Beazer

Bebo77 · 07/04/2006, 10:15 PM

you can do it sooner.. 1 week or so.. but the point is to let the rock decay settle/ stop before you put in livestock...

your tank is 25 gallons so large water changes wont kill you.. i have a 300 and it is cost prohibitive to do large water changes all the time... thats why i said 2 weeks...

how often are you doing water changes now.?

beazer · 07/04/2006, 10:23 PM

am doing about 2 a day because the leve was getting above 1ppm and I was told to change it is it got that high. how high is to high?

Beazer

Bebo77 · 07/04/2006, 10:25 PM

2 water changes a day... thats too much.. let the tank sit for a week and run it course.. do a large water change and test 2 days later...

beazer · 07/04/2006, 10:28 PM

ok that sounds good to me. less work that way. I have been killing myself.

Bebo77 · 07/04/2006, 10:32 PM

yeah i dont know who told you to do all those water changes thats crazy...

good luck with your new tank...

once everything reads 0 you can start stocking very slowly.. try to not put more than 6" worth of fish in the tank...

lawmary · 07/05/2006, 05:13 AM

When I started my tank last year, I let it cycle for three months with no water changes. I only adjusted the alkalinity during that time. When I put fish and corals in, I started doing weekly water changes and adding calcium.
While your tank is cycling, reread your books and read the posts on this forum, you'll learn a lot!

MJAnderson · 07/05/2006, 07:13 AM

On the front page are links that exlain, in detail, what is going on. Here is one:

http://www.reefcentral.com/FAQ/general/index.php

I would suggest reading them all.

beazer · 07/05/2006, 08:23 AM

The intrustions I got from TBS said to change the water when the ammonia levels got above 1ppm. I figure he know what to do. I have heard nothign but great stuff about that company. so is he wrong?

MJAnderson · 07/05/2006, 08:46 AM

It's a matter of opinion. In those startup articles (especially Waterkeepers) he mentions that other people suggest frequent water changes. Others think there is no need and you're just wasting salt.

I would suggest going with the TBS instructions so that if you have a problem you can blame them. =)

WaterKeeper · 07/05/2006, 10:07 AM

I'd go with the water changes. One wishes to keep as much living material on the LR as possible. All that rotting sponge, etc is creating toxic conditions in the water column. Replacing that nasty water with uncontaminated water will pay off in better quality rock at the end of the cure. Here is the full story The New Tank Thread.

I'm wondering why they said to wait on the other rock however. You really want to get the cure over and done with and ordering rock in batches just creates and never ending cycle.

liverock · 07/05/2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
I'd go with the water changes. One wishes to keep as much living material on the LR as possible. All that rotting sponge, etc is creating toxic conditions in the water column. Replacing that nasty water with uncontaminated water will pay off in better quality rock at the end of the cure. Here is the full story The New Tank Thread.

I'm wondering why they said to wait on the other rock however. You really want to get the cure over and done with and ordering rock in batches just creates and never ending cycle.

This is the correct answer!
Richard
TBS

WaterKeeper · 07/06/2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by liverock
This is the correct answer!
Richard
TBS

Wow Richard, What did I win?

07/04/2006, 09:22 PM	#1
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	amonia levels goes witout saying since I am in the new to hobby forum, but I have just started a saltwater tank. I recieved my first shipment of the package from TBS on Sat July, 1st. I have a 25 gal tank. as of today July 4 the amonia levels are really high. Have been changing the water about twice aday, but it stays around 1 ppm. is this normal, do I need to change the water more, change more of the water or what. as always any help would be appreciated Beazer

07/04/2006, 09:28 PM	#2
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	*To Reef Central* 1.. thats not high.. i take it you are cycling your tank.... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/04/2006, 09:49 PM	#4
serpentman part time superhero Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Snowbelt (NE OHIO) Posts: 5,698	Cycling is simply the term used to describe your tanks progression through the nitrogen cycle. Basically, the bacteria convert Ammonia to less toxic Nitrite another group of bacteria converts Nitrite to even less toxic Nitrate. As this population catches up with the bio-load, ammonia levels decrease followed by a spike in Nitrite. Then those bacteria catch up and so on.... I highly recommend reading up on this as it is foundation on which biological filtration is based. Understanding what is going on with you water chemistry will help you diagnose the majority of issues you will have down the road. Not really fun reading but necessary. Also a word of caution: by doing water changes too frequently during this process, you will prolong the length of the cycle. __________________ BS in Marine Bio ('96), First SW tank in 1992. Current Tank(s) 300g SPS with 90g frag tank and 40 anemone tank - decommissioned 46g LPS/Softy Cube 300g FOWLR under construction - decommissioned

07/04/2006, 10:04 PM	#6
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	leave the tank for 2 weeks.. doa water change and test water... if you still get high levels of ammonia nitrates or nitrites repeat.. do this until your levels read 0 1 is not " high" but if you are cycling dont even think of adding livestock... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/04/2006, 10:15 PM	#8
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	you can do it sooner.. 1 week or so.. but the point is to let the rock decay settle/ stop before you put in livestock... your tank is 25 gallons so large water changes wont kill you.. i have a 300 and it is cost prohibitive to do large water changes all the time... thats why i said 2 weeks... how often are you doing water changes now.? __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/04/2006, 09:41 PM	#3
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	I guess that is what I am doing, what does that mean? the instructions that came with it said I need to get it below .25 before I can get the second shipment. Beazer

07/04/2006, 09:56 PM	#5
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	so if the 1ppm is ok do I need to leave it along for a while and let the cyle start to work? I read all that but like you said not fun reading. I kinda understand it but can't really say I totally do Beazer

07/04/2006, 10:06 PM	#7
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	bebo are you saying I don't need to change the water or anythign for 2 weeks? kind goes against everthing I have been told to do Beazer

07/04/2006, 10:23 PM	#9
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	am doing about 2 a day because the leve was getting above 1ppm and I was told to change it is it got that high. how high is to high? Beazer

07/04/2006, 10:25 PM	#10
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	2 water changes a day... thats too much.. let the tank sit for a week and run it course.. do a large water change and test 2 days later... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/04/2006, 10:28 PM	#11
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	ok that sounds good to me. less work that way. I have been killing myself.

07/04/2006, 10:32 PM	#12
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	yeah i dont know who told you to do all those water changes thats crazy... good luck with your new tank... once everything reads 0 you can start stocking very slowly.. try to not put more than 6" worth of fish in the tank... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/05/2006, 05:13 AM	#13
lawmary 180 gl. reef tank Join Date: May 2005 Location: Orwigsburg, PA Posts: 291	When I started my tank last year, I let it cycle for three months with no water changes. I only adjusted the alkalinity during that time. When I put fish and corals in, I started doing weekly water changes and adding calcium. While your tank is cycling, reread your books and read the posts on this forum, you'll learn a lot! __________________ Mary T. 180 gallon reef tank Current Tank Info: Multibar angel pair, Bellus angel, Clowns, lyretail anthias, cardinals, blenny, leopard wrasse, softies, LPS, SPS

07/05/2006, 07:13 AM	#14
MJAnderson Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Bay, CA Posts: 2,633	On the front page are links that exlain, in detail, what is going on. Here is one: http://www.reefcentral.com/FAQ/general/index.php I would suggest reading them all.

07/05/2006, 08:23 AM	#15
beazer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 79	The intrustions I got from TBS said to change the water when the ammonia levels got above 1ppm. I figure he know what to do. I have heard nothign but great stuff about that company. so is he wrong?

07/05/2006, 08:46 AM	#16
MJAnderson Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Bay, CA Posts: 2,633	It's a matter of opinion. In those startup articles (especially Waterkeepers) he mentions that other people suggest frequent water changes. Others think there is no need and you're just wasting salt. I would suggest going with the TBS instructions so that if you have a problem you can blame them. =)

07/05/2006, 10:07 AM	#17
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	I'd go with the water changes. One wishes to keep as much living material on the LR as possible. All that rotting sponge, etc is creating toxic conditions in the water column. Replacing that nasty water with uncontaminated water will pay off in better quality rock at the end of the cure. Here is the full story The New Tank Thread. I'm wondering why they said to wait on the other rock however. You really want to get the cure over and done with and ordering rock in batches just creates and never ending cycle. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29