Calcium Snowstorm

waves · 07/06/2006, 12:15 PM

Several days ago, I awoke to find my crystal clear 180G looking like an intense white fog with several inches of visibility. After 60 gallons of water change and several days it has cleared up. Suprisingly all fish,anems, zoos, mushrooms, snails, shrimp survived, but it looked tough on the fish to make it. I use only kw injected with a litermeter for topoff and to maintain ph and calcium. Ph goes up as high a 8.40 during day and around 8.0 at nite(at 10PM). Recently, and I dont think it triggered this, but I had my first casualties in 2 years(ie skunk shrimp, sally, and yellow goby). I think a predator crab went nuts as I found the remains of the sally by his den(where the goby was evicted). I only bring this up as it must have caused the trates to go to 20.

I was told by someone who had a similar experience of the white fogged water that happened overnite that a high calcium level with rapid drop in ph( that perhaps could have occured with the deaths), could cause the Ca ions to precip out of solution and cause this intense white fog.

Reasonable, or am I dreaming.

bertoni · 07/06/2006, 02:43 PM

The fog could indeed be precipitation caused by high alkalinity and calcium, producing calcium carbonate. You could try collecting some of the water, and waiting to see whether the fog settles. If so, a calcium carbonate precipitate will fizz when vinegar is added.

waves · 07/06/2006, 04:35 PM

If that is what happened, how do I prevent such a near catastrophe in the future ?

Could the deaths causing elevating nitrates, further causing dropping ph, caused the precipitation to start ?

bertoni · 07/06/2006, 04:39 PM

Dropping the pH would reduce the precipitation, since calcium is more soluble at lower pH levels. The best way to prevent such problems is to measure calcium and alkalinity regularly. Once the balance between calcium and alkalinity is set, it'll stay pretty well in balance, so calcium can be test far less frequently.

Alkalinity is more touchy since there's fewer carbonate than calcium ions per unit volume.

Boomer · 07/06/2006, 06:15 PM

Have you measured your Mg++ ?

There 3 other things that can cause this fog.

1. There is a sudden drop in the CO2 above the tank. House closed up and someone opened the door, window, etc. The CO2 levels the air then the tank. Theres not enough CO2 in the water to hold the Calcium in solution = Calcium fog

2. CO2 builds up in the tank rather quickly and then escapes rather rapidly, same effect as above.

3. Bacterial explosion, caused by the death of something and the loss of a animal like a fish due to ammonia poising

That just happened to you. CHECK ammonia and nitrite NOW :

waves · 07/06/2006, 06:59 PM

1)I have not done things differently in the house that I am aware of that would change the CO2 in the ambient air which may have impacted CO2.

2) I have not measured Mg+, what is up with the Mg+?

3) I did check the ammonia and trite, when I got a trate reading of 20 as I thought the deaths of 3 small animals may have somehow caused the fog, but got 0 readings on both. Can three small animals in mass, cause a material increase in trates in 180 G of water?

bertoni · 07/06/2006, 07:03 PM

Magnesiums acts to prevent calcium precipitation by fouling the surface of crystals as they form. My mind is getting a bit leaky; I forgot about this issue.

Boomer · 07/06/2006, 08:05 PM

Then I' not sure what you problem is. It could be a Mg++ issue, or still a bacterial explosion. Not all bacterial explosions produce ammonia. And still a possibility of tank CO2 build-up then escape.

Serioussnaps · 07/06/2006, 08:21 PM

Do you use Kalkwasser?

Boomer · 07/06/2006, 08:41 PM

It says on his post he uses kalk

kw injected with a litermeter

07/06/2006, 12:15 PM	#1
waves Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: VA. Posts: 85	Calcium Snowstorm Several days ago, I awoke to find my crystal clear 180G looking like an intense white fog with several inches of visibility. After 60 gallons of water change and several days it has cleared up. Suprisingly all fish,anems, zoos, mushrooms, snails, shrimp survived, but it looked tough on the fish to make it. I use only kw injected with a litermeter for topoff and to maintain ph and calcium. Ph goes up as high a 8.40 during day and around 8.0 at nite(at 10PM). Recently, and I dont think it triggered this, but I had my first casualties in 2 years(ie skunk shrimp, sally, and yellow goby). I think a predator crab went nuts as I found the remains of the sally by his den(where the goby was evicted). I only bring this up as it must have caused the trates to go to 20. I was told by someone who had a similar experience of the white fogged water that happened overnite that a high calcium level with rapid drop in ph( that perhaps could have occured with the deaths), could cause the Ca ions to precip out of solution and cause this intense white fog. Reasonable, or am I dreaming.

07/06/2006, 02:43 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The fog could indeed be precipitation caused by high alkalinity and calcium, producing calcium carbonate. You could try collecting some of the water, and waiting to see whether the fog settles. If so, a calcium carbonate precipitate will fizz when vinegar is added. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/06/2006, 04:39 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Dropping the pH would reduce the precipitation, since calcium is more soluble at lower pH levels. The best way to prevent such problems is to measure calcium and alkalinity regularly. Once the balance between calcium and alkalinity is set, it'll stay pretty well in balance, so calcium can be test far less frequently. Alkalinity is more touchy since there's fewer carbonate than calcium ions per unit volume. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/06/2006, 07:03 PM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Magnesiums acts to prevent calcium precipitation by fouling the surface of crystals as they form. My mind is getting a bit leaky; I forgot about this issue. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/06/2006, 08:05 PM	#8
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Then I' not sure what you problem is. It could be a Mg++ issue, or still a bacterial explosion. Not all bacterial explosions produce ammonia. And still a possibility of tank CO2 build-up then escape. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

07/06/2006, 04:35 PM	#3
waves Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: VA. Posts: 85	If that is what happened, how do I prevent such a near catastrophe in the future ? Could the deaths causing elevating nitrates, further causing dropping ph, caused the precipitation to start ?

07/06/2006, 06:15 PM	#5
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Have you measured your Mg++ ? There 3 other things that can cause this fog. 1. There is a sudden drop in the CO2 above the tank. House closed up and someone opened the door, window, etc. The CO2 levels the air then the tank. Theres not enough CO2 in the water to hold the Calcium in solution = Calcium fog 2. CO2 builds up in the tank rather quickly and then escapes rather rapidly, same effect as above. 3. Bacterial explosion, caused by the death of something and the loss of a animal like a fish due to ammonia poising That just happened to you. CHECK ammonia and nitrite NOW :

07/06/2006, 06:59 PM	#6
waves Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: VA. Posts: 85	1)I have not done things differently in the house that I am aware of that would change the CO2 in the ambient air which may have impacted CO2. 2) I have not measured Mg+, what is up with the Mg+? 3) I did check the ammonia and trite, when I got a trate reading of 20 as I thought the deaths of 3 small animals may have somehow caused the fog, but got 0 readings on both. Can three small animals in mass, cause a material increase in trates in 180 G of water?

07/06/2006, 08:21 PM	#9
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Do you use Kalkwasser?

07/06/2006, 08:41 PM	#10
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	It says on his post he uses kalk kw injected with a litermeter __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.