Garbage cans safe to store water in??

Wet Dreamer · 10/26/2011, 10:45 AM

I was wondering which garbage cans are safe for storing water in? I heard rubbermaid cans are safe, is that all of them or only specific ones?

I am using it for storing RO/DI water if that matters at all?

BrklynArch · 10/26/2011, 10:52 AM

the rubbermaid FDA approved ones are, make sure its labeled as food grade they come in white, grey, yellow and blue i think. 10g all the way up to 55g

bellis31 · 10/26/2011, 11:04 AM

Lowe's carries these, they say safe for food on the bottom... I have one for water storage..

http://www.lowes.com/pd_46994-1097-F...lon&facetInfo=

Wet Dreamer · 10/26/2011, 11:12 AM

Awesome, thanks guys! So I guess that's the key, if they are safe for food they are good for water storage, got it!

eskymick · 10/26/2011, 11:44 AM

I learned the hard way that the Brute containers leach phosphate into RO/DI water. There doesn't appear to be leaching into mixed salt water, however. I now store my RO/DI water only in glass containers.

BeanAnimal · 10/26/2011, 11:51 AM

I too have found measurable (and significant) phosphate leaching from the Rubbermaid Brute line of products and the findings coincide with several other reports from the reefing community.

I have moved to polypropylene (and polyethylene) storage containers.

The Brutes are popular, but I will never use them again and would even (honestly) be concerned about the Rubbermaid stock tanks (though I have no evidence to support my feelings).

BeanAnimal · 10/26/2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet Dreamer

Awesome, thanks guys! So I guess that's the key, if they are safe for food they are good for water storage, got it!

This is a big misconception in our hobby. While the logic may pan out much of the time, it is certainly not something to count on. There are numerous "FDA approved" substances that are deadly to our captive reefs. Easy to find examples are items made of copper, zinc, brass, etc.

aandfsoccr04 · 10/26/2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

I too have found measurable (and significant) phosphate leaching from the Rubbermaid Brute line of products and the findings coincide with several other reports from the reefing community.

I have moved to polypropylene (and polyethylene) storage containers.

The Brutes are popular, but I will never use them again and would even (honestly) be concerned about the Rubbermaid stock tanks (though I have no evidence to support my feelings).

Wouldn't this be something that should be common knowledge in the reefing community? I read for several months before I set up my tank (several hours each day) and have had my tank set up since July...

So let's say I spent an average of 2 hours reading on this forum a day for the past 6 months and I have never seen this come up once. I am very confident that you know what you are talking about it based on researching your posts and am 100% confident that you are correct.

BeanAnimal · 10/26/2011, 01:08 PM

I can not say for sure that ALL rubbermaid products (or Brutes) for that matter will exhibit the issue. It appears that many of the product are made of recycled plastics (and the type used can be gleaned from a code on the propuct according to the manufacturer) and some may (or may not) be a contributing factor.

Why do some thing get passed along and others ignored? Who knows... In perspective, I am sure you have "learned" plenty of things that are oft repated endlessly on te internet (we all have) that are simply and patently false.

I know Brutes are VERY popular and one would think that if the issue was inherent to all of them, then there would be more reports. That said, there have been a few lengthy threads here and at a few other popular forums regarding the subject.

In my case, I was able to measure significantly elevated phosphates in RO/DI or MIXED saltwater that was kept for extended periods in my RM Brute. This was confirmed by testing the water when placed in then a few days or weeks later (several times).

So my advice is only from personal experience (non scientific) and matching anecdotal information found browsing forums.

Wet Dreamer · 10/26/2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

I can not say for sure that ALL rubbermaid products (or Brutes) for that matter will exhibit the issue. It appears that many of the product are made of recycled plastics (and the type used can be gleaned from a code on the propuct according to the manufacturer) and some may (or may not) be a contributing factor.

Why do some thing get passed along and others ignored? Who knows... In perspective, I am sure you have "learned" plenty of things that are oft repated endlessly on te internet (we all have) that are simply and patently false.

I know Brutes are VERY popular and one would think that if the issue was inherent to all of them, then there would be more reports. That said, there have been a few lengthy threads here and at a few other popular forums regarding the subject.

In my case, I was able to measure significantly elevated phosphates in RO/DI or MIXED saltwater that was kept for extended periods in my RM Brute. This was confirmed by testing the water when placed in then a few days or weeks later (several times).

So my advice is only from personal experience (non scientific) and matching anecdotal information found browsing forums.

Thanks for the info. I definitely don't want phosphates leaching into the water. That being said, I was hoping not to use glass as it is a bunch more money for the volume I am looking for, as well as the fact that I would like to drill and install a valve in the bottom to drain the water, and I don't have the hole saws to drill glass.

This being said, is there a safer/simpler alternative other than a rubbermaid garbage can or glass container possibly? I know lots of people are storing RO/DI water, so there must be certain ones that will be totally safe?

BeanAnimal · 10/26/2011, 01:43 PM

I resorted to using polyethylene (or polypropylene) tanks. They can be found all over the internet.

billwill · 10/26/2011, 03:49 PM

I've been storing my RO water in a 40G Rubbermaid Brute container for 7 years. While I've not measured the phosphates, my tank paramaters are zero for phosphates. I'm going to measure tonight though, but I can't imagine it's that out of line that I'd go drop hundreds of dollars to change it to something more pure. Has anyone entertained the idea that water simply sitting for periods of time leach things out of the air in addition to the storage device itself?

bellis31 · 10/26/2011, 04:00 PM

The Brute 2632-32 gallon I listed is polyethylene.. these cans come in many models. I use the Brute 2632 NSF grade polyethylene can and lid...

It would be interesting to know exactly what models have been tested as having leached phosphates...

BeanAnimal · 10/26/2011, 04:15 PM

Bellis, I would imagine that the NSF grade PE is much more suited than the grey trash Brutes, especially if it is true virgin PE and not a recycled PE blend.

As I mentioned above, my assumption is that the phosphate issue may be tied to some of the Brute containers that use recycled plastics from various sources.

Bill:
That discussion has taken place in a few of the threads. As I mentioned, my observations were not scientific but I did put some controls in place to try and avoid the possibility of outside contamination. With all things being the same other than replacing the Brute with a PE tank, I can no longer measure phosphate being contributed from water that sits for long periods in the tank.

Besides, the new rectangular tank fits my fishroom much better.

bellis31 · 10/26/2011, 04:20 PM

Good to know BeanAnimal, I researched as much as I could even reading all the brute can threads. I think this model is safe, I will test for phosphates at some point, as for now I'm not really "storing" water in it I'm just using it to mix saltwater.

SnowRaven · 10/15/2013, 08:42 PM

This may be the answer
http://www.amazon.com/waterBOB-Emerg.../dp/B001AXLUX2

Use a liner

jdamon · 10/15/2013, 09:52 PM

Bean animal,

Are the polypropylene tanks you are using from plastic mart? The ones that say FDA grade? Seems you could potentially have the same problem as the rubber made as they both claim the FDA approval? Thanks for your help!

Jeff

BeanAnimal · 10/15/2013, 10:37 PM

Jeff,

It is not so much the FDA and/or NSF approval, but rather the type of plastic and its source (new or recycled). The "grey" Brute trash cans come in numerous model numbers and ratings and can be made of any number or plastics depending on manufacture date, etc. The "new" models appear to be LLDPE...

The containers I chose to use were built from virgin HDPE sheet, heat welded to form a container. I am confident that I do not have a leaching issue with them. As for the brute containers, I observed (without question) elevated phosphates in any water I let sit in the container for any period of time. From a scientific standpoint this means nothing but it was enough for me to seek a new water mixing and storage tank.

Hope that helps

jdamon · 10/16/2013, 08:14 AM

Thanks Bean,

What company did you order yours from? I am not seeing on the plastic mart website whether it is recycled or virgin plastic...

Jeff

BeanAnimal · 10/16/2013, 08:57 AM

One of my customers is a car detailing supplier and I got the tank through him... I have no idea what or if I paid for the tank or the shipping. It may have been a free favor, or I could have paid retail + shipping. I don't remember and can't find the invoice.

They come from http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ and are pretty spending to say the least. The rectangular polyethylene tank I purchased (24x12x30) with lid retails for around $200 + shipping (maybe $50) and is in the "plating" catalog.

bader · 10/16/2013, 08:28 PM

So is there a less expensive alternative that would be aware or do we just test our luck and hope the dont have problems

jdamon · 10/16/2013, 08:30 PM

They are pricey at ronco! And the polypropylene ones are double or triple depending on size, crazy! Is there an advantage to using the polypropylene? Their website does say virgin plastic, so that is a plus. Who would have thought recycling could be bad...

ArthurKinst · 03/24/2016, 06:29 AM

I think they are safe as long as they are clean. Make sure that those cans are properly taken care of.

ménage

Vinny Kreyling · 03/24/2016, 08:09 AM

Many including me have used seconds from a local company called
Chemtainer, also not cheap but may be an option since they have multiple outlets across the us.
Chemtainer.com

10/26/2011, 10:45 AM	#1
Wet Dreamer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Gibbons, Ab, Canada Posts: 62	Garbage cans safe to store water in?? I was wondering which garbage cans are safe for storing water in? I heard rubbermaid cans are safe, is that all of them or only specific ones? I am using it for storing RO/DI water if that matters at all? __________________ 90 Gallon Mixed Reef w/ 110Lbs L/R and 30 Gallon Sump Yellow Tang, Six Line+Yellow Coris Wrasse, Lamarck's Angel, Diamond Watchman Goby, 3 Lyretail Anthias and 2 Percula Clownfish. Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon Reef mixed Reef

10/26/2011, 11:04 AM	#3
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	Lowe's carries these, they say safe for food on the bottom... I have one for water storage.. http://www.lowes.com/pd_46994-1097-F...lon&facetInfo= __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

10/26/2011, 11:12 AM	#4
Wet Dreamer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Gibbons, Ab, Canada Posts: 62	Awesome, thanks guys! So I guess that's the key, if they are safe for food they are good for water storage, got it! __________________ 90 Gallon Mixed Reef w/ 110Lbs L/R and 30 Gallon Sump Yellow Tang, Six Line+Yellow Coris Wrasse, Lamarck's Angel, Diamond Watchman Goby, 3 Lyretail Anthias and 2 Percula Clownfish. Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon Reef mixed Reef

10/26/2011, 11:44 AM	#5
eskymick Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pulaski, WI Posts: 1,368	I learned the hard way that the Brute containers leach phosphate into RO/DI water. There doesn't appear to be leaching into mixed salt water, however. I now store my RO/DI water only in glass containers. __________________ SG - 1.025 pH - 8.1 NH4/NH3 - 0 mg/L NO2 - .003 mg/L NO3 - .2 mg/L Calc. - 420 dKH - 8.0 Flow ~ 80x Current Tank Info: 24" cube SPS Reef, 15 gal sump, 1- LumenBright Pendant with 250w 20K Phoenix lamp, 1 - Vortech MP40, ATB 840 v1.5 skimmer.

10/26/2011, 04:00 PM	#13
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	The Brute 2632-32 gallon I listed is polyethylene.. these cans come in many models. I use the Brute 2632 NSF grade polyethylene can and lid... It would be interesting to know exactly what models have been tested as having leached phosphates... __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

10/26/2011, 10:52 AM	#2
BrklynArch Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: brooklyn NY Posts: 529	the rubbermaid FDA approved ones are, make sure its labeled as food grade they come in white, grey, yellow and blue i think. 10g all the way up to 55g

10/26/2011, 11:51 AM	#6
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I too have found measurable (and significant) phosphate leaching from the Rubbermaid Brute line of products and the findings coincide with several other reports from the reefing community. I have moved to polypropylene (and polyethylene) storage containers. The Brutes are popular, but I will never use them again and would even (honestly) be concerned about the Rubbermaid stock tanks (though I have no evidence to support my feelings).

10/26/2011, 01:08 PM	#9
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I can not say for sure that ALL rubbermaid products (or Brutes) for that matter will exhibit the issue. It appears that many of the product are made of recycled plastics (and the type used can be gleaned from a code on the propuct according to the manufacturer) and some may (or may not) be a contributing factor. Why do some thing get passed along and others ignored? Who knows... In perspective, I am sure you have "learned" plenty of things that are oft repated endlessly on te internet (we all have) that are simply and patently false. I know Brutes are VERY popular and one would think that if the issue was inherent to all of them, then there would be more reports. That said, there have been a few lengthy threads here and at a few other popular forums regarding the subject. In my case, I was able to measure significantly elevated phosphates in RO/DI or MIXED saltwater that was kept for extended periods in my RM Brute. This was confirmed by testing the water when placed in then a few days or weeks later (several times). So my advice is only from personal experience (non scientific) and matching anecdotal information found browsing forums.

10/26/2011, 01:43 PM	#11
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I resorted to using polyethylene (or polypropylene) tanks. They can be found all over the internet.

10/26/2011, 03:49 PM	#12
billwill Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 244	I've been storing my RO water in a 40G Rubbermaid Brute container for 7 years. While I've not measured the phosphates, my tank paramaters are zero for phosphates. I'm going to measure tonight though, but I can't imagine it's that out of line that I'd go drop hundreds of dollars to change it to something more pure. Has anyone entertained the idea that water simply sitting for periods of time leach things out of the air in addition to the storage device itself?

10/26/2011, 04:15 PM	#14
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Bellis, I would imagine that the NSF grade PE is much more suited than the grey trash Brutes, especially if it is true virgin PE and not a recycled PE blend. As I mentioned above, my assumption is that the phosphate issue may be tied to some of the Brute containers that use recycled plastics from various sources. Bill: That discussion has taken place in a few of the threads. As I mentioned, my observations were not scientific but I did put some controls in place to try and avoid the possibility of outside contamination. With all things being the same other than replacing the Brute with a PE tank, I can no longer measure phosphate being contributed from water that sits for long periods in the tank. Besides, the new rectangular tank fits my fishroom much better.

10/26/2011, 04:20 PM	#15
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	Good to know BeanAnimal, I researched as much as I could even reading all the brute can threads. I think this model is safe, I will test for phosphates at some point, as for now I'm not really "storing" water in it I'm just using it to mix saltwater. __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

10/15/2013, 08:42 PM	#16
SnowRaven Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 28	This may be the answer http://www.amazon.com/waterBOB-Emerg.../dp/B001AXLUX2 Use a liner __________________ Jeff - North of Jackson Member - http://www.wireefsociety.com https://www.facebook.com/groups/WIReefSociety/ 37 Gal System / 29 Gal Berlin Sump - Building Plumbing Stage

10/15/2013, 09:52 PM	#17
jdamon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 244	Bean animal, Are the polypropylene tanks you are using from plastic mart? The ones that say FDA grade? Seems you could potentially have the same problem as the rubber made as they both claim the FDA approval? Thanks for your help! Jeff __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef (SPS focus) 40g sump, LED T5 combo lighting, Kalk and carbon dosing

10/15/2013, 10:37 PM	#18
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Jeff, It is not so much the FDA and/or NSF approval, but rather the type of plastic and its source (new or recycled). The "grey" Brute trash cans come in numerous model numbers and ratings and can be made of any number or plastics depending on manufacture date, etc. The "new" models appear to be LLDPE... The containers I chose to use were built from virgin HDPE sheet, heat welded to form a container. I am confident that I do not have a leaching issue with them. As for the brute containers, I observed (without question) elevated phosphates in any water I let sit in the container for any period of time. From a scientific standpoint this means nothing but it was enough for me to seek a new water mixing and storage tank. Hope that helps

10/16/2013, 08:14 AM	#19
jdamon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 244	Thanks Bean, What company did you order yours from? I am not seeing on the plastic mart website whether it is recycled or virgin plastic... Jeff __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef (SPS focus) 40g sump, LED T5 combo lighting, Kalk and carbon dosing

10/16/2013, 08:57 AM	#20
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	One of my customers is a car detailing supplier and I got the tank through him... I have no idea what or if I paid for the tank or the shipping. It may have been a free favor, or I could have paid retail + shipping. I don't remember and can't find the invoice. They come from http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ and are pretty spending to say the least. The rectangular polyethylene tank I purchased (24x12x30) with lid retails for around $200 + shipping (maybe $50) and is in the "plating" catalog.

10/16/2013, 08:28 PM	#21
bader Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: st johns michigan Posts: 72	So is there a less expensive alternative that would be aware or do we just test our luck and hope the dont have problems

10/16/2013, 08:30 PM	#22
jdamon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 244	They are pricey at ronco! And the polypropylene ones are double or triple depending on size, crazy! Is there an advantage to using the polypropylene? Their website does say virgin plastic, so that is a plus. Who would have thought recycling could be bad... __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef (SPS focus) 40g sump, LED T5 combo lighting, Kalk and carbon dosing

03/24/2016, 06:29 AM	#23
ArthurKinst Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 2	I think they are safe as long as they are clean. Make sure that those cans are properly taken care of. ménage Last edited by Misled; 03/24/2016 at 06:15 PM.

03/24/2016, 08:09 AM	#24
Vinny Kreyling Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 7,206	Many including me have used seconds from a local company called Chemtainer, also not cheap but may be an option since they have multiple outlets across the us. Chemtainer.com __________________ 250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps.

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