Another ALK thread (sorry)

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 05:07 AM

Been reading up on fixing my ALK levels (currently sitting around 4 dkh). I do not have any corals yet but I am trying to get things stable so I can start adding some with a stable environment already in place. I have about 45 g of water total (50g main DT with a 19g sump... should be more but it didn't even take all 10 5g jugs of water to fill up the system entirely). Not exactly sure why I am already seeing low ALK levels. When I last had a reef setup, I was in a different state with different water and it wasn't an issue but I am thinking maybe my water first going through a water softener could be the reason?

Either way, I am seeing I should be going no more than 1 dkh per day but not exactly sure how much to add at once to acheive this goal. The BRS calculator says to add apprx 4.8 tsp of Baking Soda into RO/DI and dissolve and add gradually and test every few minutes but given I do not have any corals to hurt at this time, I would rather just jump up 1.0 dkh at once per day until I get to where I need to be and then focus on what to dose to stay stable.

Thank you for any help.

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 05:18 AM

Something is not right IMO..
What salt mix are you using? And have you measured the alk of it when freshly mixed?
Do you have a lot of coralline algae? and if so how often do you do water changes?

Have you checked your mag levels?
How about calcium?

before you do anything I would verify accuracy of your test first.. Something smells fishy IMO..

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 05:28 AM

I have no real coraline algae to speak of. I started with dry rock to avoid hitchhikers. I was given a couple very small pieces of live rock from my LFS a week ago to seed some coraline but we are talking about about 4 pieces the size of astrea snails.

My ALK was at 7.0 the last time I did a water change and tested. I replace 10g every 2 weeks. Up until a week ago, I was using water from my LFS I still had from setup (was easier than making up my own and it made it cheaper to borrow some of their water jugs) so up until the last water change, I was using their premixed water. I have been topping off with my own RO/DI water since tank became a working system in the beginning of September.

I have not checked mag or calc, I do not even have test kits for those yet. Given I have no corals and use reef salt, it was something I did not think Ineeded to focus on quite yet.

I use Red Sea kits. The only difference this time is that instead of using 10ml of water and each drop being 1 dkh, I used 5 mg so that each drop was .5 dkh.

Will test again doing it the way I did to begin with and if something is different, I will immediately update.

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 05:41 AM

Okay... so re-did it and we are different. This time I went back to using 10ml of DT water and it took 15 drops to get to green (though it took 2 drops to get to blue so something I have not thought about before, do those 2 drops count or do you not start counting until you get to the color blue where it puts as start point?).

Came out at 7.5 dkh this time which is much more in line with where I have been (other tests have highest at 8.0 and lowest at 7.0).

That being said, I still want to get my way towards the middle and not the low end. I ready a thread I would have sworn I subscribed to that said to dissolve a certain amount of baking soda in heated tank water and put back in tank to raise approx 1 dkh and not to do so more than once a day... but it appears I did not subscribe to it as I cannot find it.

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 06:58 AM

IMO There is no valid reason to start dosing or adjusting your alk at this time.. You have no corals.. you have no coralline algae.. you have little to no consumption so why raise it and have to start dosing and keeping up with it..

Your level is really completely acceptable as is..
The typical ocean alk level is 7dKH...

But yes in general when you actually have corals and your current water change schedule is not sufficient to maintain stable levels and then decide that dosing may be somethign you do then its best to not adjust more the 1dKH at a time to avoid stressing them..

You should also not dose before you check your mag levels.. Incorrect mag levels can cause both alk and cal levels to be unstable.. But I'm sure they are fine too as again you likely have no need to dose..

If you decide you want to start making your own saltwater (either making your own RO/DI water or just purchasing that from your local store and adding your own salt) you can pick one with a higher default alk level which also will increase the level in your tank on its own and will help to maintain it automatically at that level..

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 07:28 AM

I am making my own saltwater now using IO Reef Crystals with my RO/DI system I've had since I was in Cali. I didn't want to use LFS water to start with but I didn't have any 5g jugs and had no desire to buy 10 of them so my LFS was willing to lend me jugs if I bought water. I figured 50g SC Aquariums tank with 19g sump would use all 50g but I ended up with 2 5g jugs left. Didn't do any water changes while I was cycling and cycle just finished about a month ago so I finally did a water change and am now using my mixed salt.

I do appreciate your response and have another question along the same lines. How does my water softener effect my system? It goes through the RO/DI so the only effect might be it's easier on the filters but does that have any effect after it has been filtered?

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 10:08 AM

First..
If you are using Reef Crystals your alk is going to go up from where it is now for sure so you certainly don't need to do any manual dosing.. So again.. no manual dosing.. The default higher ALK of RC salt WILL raise your alk level in the tank over time (the more water you change the faster its going to increase)

second.. having a water softener before the RO/DI system is beneficial and will prolong the life of the filtration system.. RO membrane are much happier treating soft vs hard water..
It has no impact on water post filtration.. All good there..

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 10:32 AM

Awesome, thank you for all answers. I'm gonna assume the LFS is using a cheaper salt without some additives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

First..
If you are using Reef Crystals your alk is going to go up from where it is now for sure so you certainly don't need to do any manual dosing.. So again.. no manual dosing.. The default higher ALK of RC salt WILL raise your alk level in the tank over time (the more water you change the faster its going to increase)

second.. having a water softener before the RO/DI system is beneficial and will prolong the life of the filtration system.. RO membrane are much happier treating soft vs hard water..
It has no impact on water post filtration.. All good there..

mcgyvr · 11/16/2017, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog999

Awesome, thank you for all answers. I'm gonna assume the LFS is using a cheaper salt without some additives.

Not necessarily cheaper nor missing some additives..
Just different...
RC does have some organics in it that other salts (even like regular IO) do not have..

But you can get many brands of salt mixes each with their own default parameters..

I was using RC for the longest time but its parameters (specifically alk) are just way too high for me now..
I'm running an alk of 8 now on average.. The 13-14 of RC was just too far from that.. I'm using regular IO now but even thats higher than I want.. I will likely switch to another salt with lower numbers when I run out of the IO..

devildog999 · 11/16/2017, 10:46 AM

Gotcha, makes sense.

11/16/2017, 05:07 AM	#1
devildog999 That Guy Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 457	Another ALK thread (sorry) Been reading up on fixing my ALK levels (currently sitting around 4 dkh). I do not have any corals yet but I am trying to get things stable so I can start adding some with a stable environment already in place. I have about 45 g of water total (50g main DT with a 19g sump... should be more but it didn't even take all 10 5g jugs of water to fill up the system entirely). Not exactly sure why I am already seeing low ALK levels. When I last had a reef setup, I was in a different state with different water and it wasn't an issue but I am thinking maybe my water first going through a water softener could be the reason? Either way, I am seeing I should be going no more than 1 dkh per day but not exactly sure how much to add at once to acheive this goal. The BRS calculator says to add apprx 4.8 tsp of Baking Soda into RO/DI and dissolve and add gradually and test every few minutes but given I do not have any corals to hurt at this time, I would rather just jump up 1.0 dkh at once per day until I get to where I need to be and then focus on what to dose to stay stable. Thank you for any help.

11/16/2017, 05:18 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Something is not right IMO.. What salt mix are you using? And have you measured the alk of it when freshly mixed? Do you have a lot of coralline algae? and if so how often do you do water changes? Have you checked your mag levels? How about calcium? before you do anything I would verify accuracy of your test first.. Something smells fishy IMO.. __________________ Who me?

11/16/2017, 05:41 AM	#4
devildog999 That Guy Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 457	Okay... so re-did it and we are different. This time I went back to using 10ml of DT water and it took 15 drops to get to green (though it took 2 drops to get to blue so something I have not thought about before, do those 2 drops count or do you not start counting until you get to the color blue where it puts as start point?). Came out at 7.5 dkh this time which is much more in line with where I have been (other tests have highest at 8.0 and lowest at 7.0). That being said, I still want to get my way towards the middle and not the low end. I ready a thread I would have sworn I subscribed to that said to dissolve a certain amount of baking soda in heated tank water and put back in tank to raise approx 1 dkh and not to do so more than once a day... but it appears I did not subscribe to it as I cannot find it. Last edited by devildog999; 11/16/2017 at 06:11 AM.

11/16/2017, 06:58 AM	#5
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	IMO There is no valid reason to start dosing or adjusting your alk at this time.. You have no corals.. you have no coralline algae.. you have little to no consumption so why raise it and have to start dosing and keeping up with it.. Your level is really completely acceptable as is.. The typical ocean alk level is 7dKH... But yes in general when you actually have corals and your current water change schedule is not sufficient to maintain stable levels and then decide that dosing may be somethign you do then its best to not adjust more the 1dKH at a time to avoid stressing them.. You should also not dose before you check your mag levels.. Incorrect mag levels can cause both alk and cal levels to be unstable.. But I'm sure they are fine too as again you likely have no need to dose.. If you decide you want to start making your own saltwater (either making your own RO/DI water or just purchasing that from your local store and adding your own salt) you can pick one with a higher default alk level which also will increase the level in your tank on its own and will help to maintain it automatically at that level.. __________________ Who me?

11/16/2017, 10:08 AM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	First.. If you are using Reef Crystals your alk is going to go up from where it is now for sure so you certainly don't need to do any manual dosing.. So again.. no manual dosing.. The default higher ALK of RC salt WILL raise your alk level in the tank over time (the more water you change the faster its going to increase) second.. having a water softener before the RO/DI system is beneficial and will prolong the life of the filtration system.. RO membrane are much happier treating soft vs hard water.. It has no impact on water post filtration.. All good there.. __________________ Who me?

11/16/2017, 05:28 AM	#3
devildog999 That Guy Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 457	I have no real coraline algae to speak of. I started with dry rock to avoid hitchhikers. I was given a couple very small pieces of live rock from my LFS a week ago to seed some coraline but we are talking about about 4 pieces the size of astrea snails. My ALK was at 7.0 the last time I did a water change and tested. I replace 10g every 2 weeks. Up until a week ago, I was using water from my LFS I still had from setup (was easier than making up my own and it made it cheaper to borrow some of their water jugs) so up until the last water change, I was using their premixed water. I have been topping off with my own RO/DI water since tank became a working system in the beginning of September. I have not checked mag or calc, I do not even have test kits for those yet. Given I have no corals and use reef salt, it was something I did not think Ineeded to focus on quite yet. I use Red Sea kits. The only difference this time is that instead of using 10ml of water and each drop being 1 dkh, I used 5 mg so that each drop was .5 dkh. Will test again doing it the way I did to begin with and if something is different, I will immediately update.

11/16/2017, 07:28 AM	#6
devildog999 That Guy Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 457	I am making my own saltwater now using IO Reef Crystals with my RO/DI system I've had since I was in Cali. I didn't want to use LFS water to start with but I didn't have any 5g jugs and had no desire to buy 10 of them so my LFS was willing to lend me jugs if I bought water. I figured 50g SC Aquariums tank with 19g sump would use all 50g but I ended up with 2 5g jugs left. Didn't do any water changes while I was cycling and cycle just finished about a month ago so I finally did a water change and am now using my mixed salt. I do appreciate your response and have another question along the same lines. How does my water softener effect my system? It goes through the RO/DI so the only effect might be it's easier on the filters but does that have any effect after it has been filtered?

11/16/2017, 10:46 AM	#10
devildog999 That Guy Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 457	Gotcha, makes sense.