Stuck Cycle, not sure where to go

TheAviator · 06/14/2021, 03:01 PM

I recently started my tank all over due to the crazy Texas ice storms we had. Tore the tank down, cleaned, all new sand, bleached the dry rock and cured it. Started from scratch. I used dr Tims to do a fishes cycle. Everything was going great, by week 2 I was already seeing a drop in ammonia. Thats where the good stopped. I can't seem to get my Nitrates to go down. Its now been 3 months since I started using Dr Tims and I see no change in Nitrites. It seemed I was getting some Nitrates, so I thought I would give it time.

After 2 months, I did almost a 80% water change to lower the Nitrite levels to a readable level. That did work, Nitrites and Nitrates lowered as expected. However, no further movement. Just seems to be stuck. I stopped dosing ammonia because there was no point at this juncture. It just made my nitrates sky rocket again with no movement. PH is 8.2, temp is 82 degrees. Ammonia is zero, Nitrites are currently around 2ppm (Test kit is difficult to read). Nitrates are around 20ppm.

What should my next step be here? I currently have a fish that's been in a frag tank for 3 months that I want to get back in his tank. But I can't do it if I can't get the levels under control.

My thought is, I do another water change, get the Nitrates down to about 5-10ppm. Add the fish and dose more bacteria with him in the tank. But I'm really not sure what to do anymore. Ive had this tank almost 2 years now and I can't seem to get anything right. Definitely getting frustrated, if I can't get this thing going, maybe these tanks are just not for me!

kfisc · 06/14/2021, 04:27 PM

Perhaps the large water changes had an unfortunate consequence in effectively starting the cycle over again? I'm guessing you're using RODI (with filters relatively clean/usable), not "feeding" or putting in food to jump start the cycle and so on.

I'd hold-off on any additive and let the tank just ride it out for at least a good month.

Anemone · 06/14/2021, 04:35 PM

If you're seeing pass through from ammonia to nitrate (you said adding ammonia made you nitrate go up), I'd look at your nitrite test. I see no reason the bacteria would pass through "some" of the nitrite to nitrate, while leaving a high residual nitrite level that never resolves. See if a local fish store can double check your nitrite readings, or just buy a new test.

Kevin

TheAviator · 06/14/2021, 05:00 PM

I thought maybe my test kid was bad as well. So I tested fresh RODI water and it was reading 0. But I could definitely bring some in tomorrow and have them test it.

TheAviator · 06/14/2021, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfisc

Perhaps the large water changes had an unfortunate consequence in effectively starting the cycle over again? I'm guessing you're using RODI (with filters relatively clean/usable), not "feeding" or putting in food to jump start the cycle and so on.

I'd hold-off on any additive and let the tank just ride it out for at least a good month.

I did the water change after about two months. In part because the PH dropped pretty low. I am using RODI and the filters are relatively new.

Sugar Magnolia · 06/15/2021, 10:25 AM

Tracking pH during cycling is pretty useless because it fluctuates quite a bit.

Sk8r · 06/15/2021, 12:14 PM

The old way to cycle a tank is simply to drop a little flake into the tank daily. If you've done this about 2 weeks and get no ammonia, the tank is probably cycled already, and bacteria are handling it. At that point, add a cleanup crew and keep feeding the tank. After another week, you could try one hardy fish. If the fish waiting in qt is not a hardy species, give it another week, and it SHOULD be ok. [The oldfashioned way with a new tank is 4 weeks of ghost feeding to expect ammonia, and if you see ammonia and it goes away by the next day you're cycled, and can start with a cleanup crew. THe benny of adding inverts before the fish is that they will consume any edibles in the tank and their own poo will feed the bacteria, leading to healthy bacteria before the first fish gets there.]

Sk8r · 06/15/2021, 12:16 PM

And ignore ph. In saltwater it bounces all over. Get a Salifert alkalinity test and track that instead. Target a dkh reading of 8.3.

TheAviator · 06/15/2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

The old way to cycle a tank is simply to drop a little flake into the tank daily. If you've done this about 2 weeks and get no ammonia, the tank is probably cycled already, and bacteria are handling it. At that point, add a cleanup crew and keep feeding the tank. After another week, you could try one hardy fish. If the fish waiting in qt is not a hardy species, give it another week, and it SHOULD be ok. [The oldfashioned way with a new tank is 4 weeks of ghost feeding to expect ammonia, and if you see ammonia and it goes away by the next day you're cycled, and can start with a cleanup crew. THe benny of adding inverts before the fish is that they will consume any edibles in the tank and their own poo will feed the bacteria, leading to healthy bacteria before the first fish gets there.]

I can add about 2ppm of ammonia. Within a day or two it’s been taken out. However, I’m just worried about nitrites. Doesn’t seem to be moving at all. Should I not worry about this? The fish I have is a chromis. He is pretty hardy has survived a lot. You think it’s time to put him and a clean up crew in?

Sk8r · 06/16/2021, 06:29 PM

Nitrates are something to work on (a good skimmer helps!) but not worrisome at 20. You're almost in range for successful coral reef, and it's not going to hurt a chromis. If your tank is eating ammonia to zilch, you're cycled. I think you could just proceed and put your fish in, but I'd start today with a cleanup crew, and don't neglect to feed them a bit.

five.five-six · 06/17/2021, 08:00 AM

The tank is constantly “cycling” even years into it, the thing is the cycles become so small that the are not noticeable.

My entire tank was killed by COVID-19 beginning of January and it is just now settling down. First nem and clowns about 2 months ago, started adding fish and coral about a month ago. Just added a CUC Monday

I think about now, 6 months later, it’s “cycled” but even a mature tank cycles …little tiny cycles.

Haunt · 06/17/2021, 04:28 PM

Time? Nature will take it's course.

Do you know what the difference is between your beautiful tank & my beautifultank is? Nothing.... It's beautiful.

TheAviator · 06/17/2021, 08:34 PM

Thanks for the tips! I will head to the LFS and grab a cleanup crew and get this thing started! Thanks again for everything.

06/14/2021, 03:01 PM	#1
TheAviator Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 25	Stuck Cycle, not sure where to go I recently started my tank all over due to the crazy Texas ice storms we had. Tore the tank down, cleaned, all new sand, bleached the dry rock and cured it. Started from scratch. I used dr Tims to do a fishes cycle. Everything was going great, by week 2 I was already seeing a drop in ammonia. Thats where the good stopped. I can't seem to get my Nitrates to go down. Its now been 3 months since I started using Dr Tims and I see no change in Nitrites. It seemed I was getting some Nitrates, so I thought I would give it time. After 2 months, I did almost a 80% water change to lower the Nitrite levels to a readable level. That did work, Nitrites and Nitrates lowered as expected. However, no further movement. Just seems to be stuck. I stopped dosing ammonia because there was no point at this juncture. It just made my nitrates sky rocket again with no movement. PH is 8.2, temp is 82 degrees. Ammonia is zero, Nitrites are currently around 2ppm (Test kit is difficult to read). Nitrates are around 20ppm. What should my next step be here? I currently have a fish that's been in a frag tank for 3 months that I want to get back in his tank. But I can't do it if I can't get the levels under control. My thought is, I do another water change, get the Nitrates down to about 5-10ppm. Add the fish and dose more bacteria with him in the tank. But I'm really not sure what to do anymore. Ive had this tank almost 2 years now and I can't seem to get anything right. Definitely getting frustrated, if I can't get this thing going, maybe these tanks are just not for me!

06/14/2021, 04:35 PM	#3
Anemone Cloning Around Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valencia, California Posts: 25,267	If you're seeing pass through from ammonia to nitrate (you said adding ammonia made you nitrate go up), I'd look at your nitrite test. I see no reason the bacteria would pass through "some" of the nitrite to nitrate, while leaving a high residual nitrite level that never resolves. See if a local fish store can double check your nitrite readings, or just buy a new test. Kevin __________________ Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks... Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s

06/15/2021, 10:25 AM	#6
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Tracking pH during cycling is pretty useless because it fluctuates quite a bit. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

06/15/2021, 12:14 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	The old way to cycle a tank is simply to drop a little flake into the tank daily. If you've done this about 2 weeks and get no ammonia, the tank is probably cycled already, and bacteria are handling it. At that point, add a cleanup crew and keep feeding the tank. After another week, you could try one hardy fish. If the fish waiting in qt is not a hardy species, give it another week, and it SHOULD be ok. [The oldfashioned way with a new tank is 4 weeks of ghost feeding to expect ammonia, and if you see ammonia and it goes away by the next day you're cycled, and can start with a cleanup crew. THe benny of adding inverts before the fish is that they will consume any edibles in the tank and their own poo will feed the bacteria, leading to healthy bacteria before the first fish gets there.] __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/15/2021, 12:16 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	And ignore ph. In saltwater it bounces all over. Get a Salifert alkalinity test and track that instead. Target a dkh reading of 8.3. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/14/2021, 04:27 PM	#2
kfisc Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,020	Perhaps the large water changes had an unfortunate consequence in effectively starting the cycle over again? I'm guessing you're using RODI (with filters relatively clean/usable), not "feeding" or putting in food to jump start the cycle and so on. I'd hold-off on any additive and let the tank just ride it out for at least a good month.

06/14/2021, 05:00 PM	#4
TheAviator Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 25	I thought maybe my test kid was bad as well. So I tested fresh RODI water and it was reading 0. But I could definitely bring some in tomorrow and have them test it.

06/16/2021, 06:29 PM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Nitrates are something to work on (a good skimmer helps!) but not worrisome at 20. You're almost in range for successful coral reef, and it's not going to hurt a chromis. If your tank is eating ammonia to zilch, you're cycled. I think you could just proceed and put your fish in, but I'd start today with a cleanup crew, and don't neglect to feed them a bit. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/17/2021, 08:00 AM	#11
five.five-six Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 7,827 Blog Entries: 6	The tank is constantly “cycling” even years into it, the thing is the cycles become so small that the are not noticeable. My entire tank was killed by COVID-19 beginning of January and it is just now settling down. First nem and clowns about 2 months ago, started adding fish and coral about a month ago. Just added a CUC Monday I think about now, 6 months later, it’s “cycled” but even a mature tank cycles …little tiny cycles. __________________ Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS

06/17/2021, 04:28 PM	#12
Haunt Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 109	Time? Nature will take it's course. Do you know what the difference is between your beautiful tank & my beautifultank is? Nothing.... It's beautiful. __________________ "Your off the edge of the map mate. Here there be monsters..."

06/17/2021, 08:34 PM	#13
TheAviator Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 25	Thanks for the tips! I will head to the LFS and grab a cleanup crew and get this thing started! Thanks again for everything.