29 Gallon tank, sump or no sump?

scmelik · 12/12/2021, 07:23 AM

A very good friend of ours is graciously giving us their 29 gallon tank/stand setup now that they have gotten their feet wet in the hobby and have upgraded to a larger tank. This will be my first reef tank and while I know I can use the KISS method and aliveate a lot of headaches for myself I also want to use this opportunity to learn (and teach my daughter) the ins and outs of the hobby.

I know that having a sump has a large array of benefits, additional water volume, filtration, etc. I am wondering though for a smaller tank like we are getting, is adding a sump worthwhile? I know a lot will depending on the size of the stand and whether or not a tank will even fit. I know that if I do add a sump that I will have a to drill the tank and build an overflow which is fine.

Timfish · 12/12/2021, 07:59 AM

Welcome to the hobby! Keeping reef systems certainly is educational!

Having a sump/refugium is always a good thing but not necessary. There are overflows that hang on the back and use a syphon to maintain water level so it's not essential to install an internal overflow. If you're comfortable building one it's a better way IMO to run a system. There are also hang on back (HOB) refugiums that are available which might work for you. The most critical thing IMO is to do water changes as that's the best way to remove the hydrophilic and refractory Dissolve ORganic Carbon (DOC) which can't be removed by other forms of filtration. These videos might be overkill but they are informative:

This is one of my systems that doesn't use any external or internal filtration
https://youtu.be/D5jHklmdfa8
https://youtu.be/OoiuSY3Vzf0

Old Sea Urchin
https://youtu.be/ShdSkNctF2k

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4

BActeria and Sponges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
https://youtu.be/dGIPveFJ_0Q

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
https://youtu.be/oadKezUYkJE

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

wzf106 · 12/23/2021, 07:22 AM

I have a 29G with a CPR HOB refugium with no sump without any issues. I do know that if you dont want to drill, they have HOB overflows

scmelik · 12/23/2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wzf106

I have a 29G with a CPR HOB refugium with no sump without any issues. I do know that if you dont want to drill, they have HOB overflows

i know it can be done and lots have done it with no issues at all, I honestly just want a cleaner look than having a bunch of stuff hanging off the back

Sugar Magnolia · 12/23/2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scmelik

i know it can be done and lots have done it with no issues at all, I honestly just want a cleaner look than having a bunch of stuff hanging off the back

I've run many tanks sumpless in the 40g and below in several variations with hang on back filters and hang on back refugiums and hang on back skimmers. If I had to choose, the HOB skimmer would be the option I would choose hands down.

billdogg · 12/26/2021, 09:58 AM

IMHO, no tank is too small to have a sump. In fact, adding a sump to a smaller tank can have a much greater effect than adding one to a larger tank.

As an example - you add a sump to your 120g tank. Most would opt for a 40g tank - it fits well inside most stands, and has sufficient volume to handle the back flow when the power is off. figuring it to be at ~ 1/2 full, you've added 20g (an increase of 1/5 total volume.

Now - for your 29. A 20g sump should fit under the stand. Again at 1/2 full, you'll be adding 10g TV, so ~ 1/3 increase. More volume = greater stability and greater ability to deal with the dilution of waste products.

That being said, I kept a 60 cube for 22 years with a HOB and a canister. Towards the end I did add a TLF reactor to help with PO4.

Floowid · 01/06/2022, 05:23 PM

I have a little of each. I have a Fluval Edge 6 gallon nano that I put a 15 gallon sump on and I have a 40 gallon breeder with just HOB filtration. It really depends on what you want.

Setting up your 29 with a sump is a good excuse to set up a sump and learn the ins and outs of how they function, but if you are using this tank like your friend did, you may not have it long enough before you are also upgrading. If you like the hobby, the urge to upgrade is almost uncontrollable.

12/12/2021, 07:23 AM	#1
scmelik Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 22	29 Gallon tank, sump or no sump? A very good friend of ours is graciously giving us their 29 gallon tank/stand setup now that they have gotten their feet wet in the hobby and have upgraded to a larger tank. This will be my first reef tank and while I know I can use the KISS method and aliveate a lot of headaches for myself I also want to use this opportunity to learn (and teach my daughter) the ins and outs of the hobby. I know that having a sump has a large array of benefits, additional water volume, filtration, etc. I am wondering though for a smaller tank like we are getting, is adding a sump worthwhile? I know a lot will depending on the size of the stand and whether or not a tank will even fit. I know that if I do add a sump that I will have a to drill the tank and build an overflow which is fine.

12/12/2021, 07:59 AM	#2
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Welcome to the hobby! Keeping reef systems certainly is educational! Having a sump/refugium is always a good thing but not necessary. There are overflows that hang on the back and use a syphon to maintain water level so it's not essential to install an internal overflow. If you're comfortable building one it's a better way IMO to run a system. There are also hang on back (HOB) refugiums that are available which might work for you. The most critical thing IMO is to do water changes as that's the best way to remove the hydrophilic and refractory Dissolve ORganic Carbon (DOC) which can't be removed by other forms of filtration. These videos might be overkill but they are informative: This is one of my systems that doesn't use any external or internal filtration https://youtu.be/D5jHklmdfa8 https://youtu.be/OoiuSY3Vzf0 Old Sea Urchin https://youtu.be/ShdSkNctF2k "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4 BActeria and Sponges https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end) https://youtu.be/dGIPveFJ_0Q Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching https://youtu.be/oadKezUYkJE Richard Ross What's up with phosphate" https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

12/26/2021, 09:58 AM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	IMHO, no tank is too small to have a sump. In fact, adding a sump to a smaller tank can have a much greater effect than adding one to a larger tank. As an example - you add a sump to your 120g tank. Most would opt for a 40g tank - it fits well inside most stands, and has sufficient volume to handle the back flow when the power is off. figuring it to be at ~ 1/2 full, you've added 20g (an increase of 1/5 total volume. Now - for your 29. A 20g sump should fit under the stand. Again at 1/2 full, you'll be adding 10g TV, so ~ 1/3 increase. More volume = greater stability and greater ability to deal with the dilution of waste products. That being said, I kept a 60 cube for 22 years with a HOB and a canister. Towards the end I did add a TLF reactor to help with PO4. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

01/06/2022, 05:23 PM	#7
Floowid Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Centerville, UT Posts: 712	I have a little of each. I have a Fluval Edge 6 gallon nano that I put a 15 gallon sump on and I have a 40 gallon breeder with just HOB filtration. It really depends on what you want. Setting up your 29 with a sump is a good excuse to set up a sump and learn the ins and outs of how they function, but if you are using this tank like your friend did, you may not have it long enough before you are also upgrading. If you like the hobby, the urge to upgrade is almost uncontrollable. __________________ 75 gallon mixed reef

12/23/2021, 07:22 AM	#3
wzf106 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Posts: 1	I have a 29G with a CPR HOB refugium with no sump without any issues. I do know that if you dont want to drill, they have HOB overflows