Fowlr Tank

[reefer1187]

hey everyone, i finally decided i want to do a FOWLR tank because it is very hard for me to maintain my reef tank, can anyone give me some knowledge of what's the differences between the management routine of a FOWLR and reef

also what water parameters do i have to maintain and keep stable?

so far all i know is to keep the alkalinity up, nitrite down, and salinity at 1.015...

so please fill me with knowledge :-d

Hobby Experience: october 03- and always learning

[Avi]

Well, I'd keep the salinity at 1.025 or thereabouts. No reason, really, to change it. Some of the most beautiful fish, that you might even keep since you can without them endangering coral, are from the Red Sea, where the salinity is on the higher side.

I'd keep the tank pretty much the same as you had with the reef, but now you can add bio-balls to your wet/dry and even hook up a good quality canister like an Eheim. That will allow you to keep the tank clean without so many water changes.

By the way, if you did keep your salinity at 1.015, then that could well be the reason for yout lack of success with coral. It's too low for a successful reef, IMO. That, together with not having a protein skimmer...if you don't...are probably the single two reasons why you aren't keeping a reef any longer. Maybe you'd want to reconsider.

[Dubbin1]

reefer I used to have a FOWLR along with my reef tank and to be honest with you I think I spent just about an equal amount of time on both tanks.

[ACBlinky]

I find my FOWLR a little easier than my reef. With the reef I need to keep a closer eye on the chemistry not only because it's a smaller tank and changes happen more quickly, but there are also corals in the tank depleting the Ca, Mg, etc. faster than they're depleted in the FOWLR.

I agree with Avi, you can maintain the FOWLR just as you would a reef, with added filtration if you like. I keep my parameters the same in both my reef and FOWLR:
SG 1.025
pH 8.1-8.2
Ca ~400
8-9dKH
Mg 1250-1350
NH3, NO2 0
NO3, PO4 as close to 0 as possible

[dchao]

You can use cheaper salt mix rather than those expensive reef salt. And you don't have to to get NO3 down to the impossible zero level. Alk should be set higher at 11-12dKH, because fish produce more wastes, and the nitrification process will use up more buffer than a reef tank.

Also I see you have MH's, you don't have to run that if you aren't planning to keep SPS or clams. I love T5's, bright but very little heat, and that means less evaporation. Your PC will work too, if you do decide to keep it.

[reefer1187]

sorry i took so long to reply i had a hectic night and moring, as far as salinity my salinity had always been at 1.025 and my lfs recommended to drop it lower because the fish will be less prone to disease such as ich.

also i NEVER had a skimmer, for one because its to pricey for my pockets, im only 18, and 2nd i always wanted to achieve a beautiful tank without a skimmer, because i have seen it done b4, using the ecosystem filtration method.

so, basically if i dont get a skimmer ill just be doing water changes a little more often?

and also the ONLY supplement i have to add is buffer to keep my alkalinity up?

[Avi]

Originally posted by reefer1187
i NEVER had a skimmer, for one because its to pricey for my pockets, im only 18, and 2nd i always wanted to achieve a beautiful tank without a skimmer, because i have seen it done b4, using the ecosystem filtration method.

Good quality skimmers can be expensive. However, they do make more of a difference than can be accomplished by just doing some more water changes. They are, IMO, almost always critical to a successful reef. There are other ways to accomplish a great reef and one of them is the Ecosystem method. But that method, while simple to operate, must be operated in a specific way and the mud that it requires is essential to its effectiveness and success. So, if you aren't doing it precisely the way it's designed to work, you won't have much luck. This is informative on that method:

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/htm...iltration.html

Originally posted by reefer1187
so, basically if i dont get a skimmer ill just be doing water changes a little more often?

If you want to get the reef going without the trouble that you've had, get a skimmer, even if it's a used one. If you don't want to go the skimmer route, then do the Ecosystem method, but follow all of the instructions very closely....to purchase an Ecosystem setup to put on your reef instead of operating a skimmer, it's just as expensive...here's an example:

http://www.aquadirect.com/catalog/fi...ecosystems.htm

I recently saw a tank in a fish store with one of those on it and there's no doubt that the coral was in super-healthy condition...without a skimmer. It's very impressive. But, again, expensive, too.

Originally posted by reefer1187
and also the ONLY supplement i have to add is buffer to keep my alkalinity up?

If you're going to have a reef after all, you'd be supplementing calcium (and less frequently, magnesium) also, in addition to a supplement to maintain the alkalinity in the tank. If you change over to FOWLR, then alkalinity will be a bigger focus for you. Of course you'd still have to monitor calcium, pH, nitrates, etc.

[dchao]

A protein skimmer is a must for any FO or reef tank. It removes organic matters before they break down, and provide aeration for the water.

Coralife has just introduced a new skimmer called the needle-wheel super skimmer. The smallest 65 gallon one is only $80, most people go for the 125 gallon one, but you should give it a try. Finally, a good skimmer at an affordable price!


http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...771+2146957691

[dchao]

Originally posted by reefer1187
sorry i took so long to reply i had a hectic night and moring, as far as salinity my salinity had always been at 1.025 and my lfs recommended to drop it lower because the fish will be less prone to disease such as ich.

I would keep it at 1.024-1.025, as close to Natural Sea Water (NSW) as possible. Fish stores keep the salinity lower to save on the cost of salt. They actually use copper and UV to prevent ich which is more effective. And to kill ich with salinity, you have to maintain it exactly at 1.009, which is hard work, and IMO, bad for the fish long term.

[reefer1187]

well right now i already have the ecosystem filtration method, and i use it very well, the only thing i dont have in it is the bio balls

can i use live rock instead of bioballs?

why do i have to maintain the calcium is a FO tank?

[dchao]

well right now i already have the ecosystem filtration method, and i use it very well, the only thing i dont have in it is the bio balls

That's fine for light to medium bioload tank, keep an eye on the pH, and make sure it doesn't fall too low, you should be fine. Note: a skimmer will remove far more wastes than an eco system.

can i use live rock instead of bioballs?

Yes both are fine for FO, bioballs are far more effecient as to converting wastes to NO3, hence the name "nitrate factory". That's why when you are using LR's, you need to supppliment it with a skimmer, and to remove the wastes before they start to decompose by the LR's and livesand.

why do i have to maintain the calcium is a FO tank?

No you don't, just don't let calcium fall too low (well below 300ppm), if the calcium falls too low, it might drag down the alkalinity with it. You have to double check with Randy's alritcles on Ca/Alk.

[reefer1187]

the ph stays stable at 8.3 all the time is that good enough?

[dchao]

Yes, that's perfect! Maybe even good enough for even some rare buttterfly fish.

[reefer1187]

i never really test my ph, but when i do it always says 8.3 is it bad that i rearly test it?

[dchao]

That's fine. If you want to monitor pH, you will need a digital pH meter to monitor it continuously. Normally, pH will vary acording to the lighting period, as photosynthesis will increase the pH value.

However, pH is a very important parameter to monitor, as a sudden low pH is usually a sign of bad water quality (assuming alkalinity is kept at the same level).

[reefer1187]

so mainly in my fish only tank i just have to monitor my ph, alk, and nitrite?

[dastratt]

my opinion
test Ph, SG, nitrate
test alk, Ca occasionally unless you see them drop and are dosing. I'd expect this to happen with alk but not Ca - but your experience may vary

I've usually found undetectable nitrite except while cycling but it is worth it to have a kit for that and ammonia as well. I've pretty much given up on testing for those unless I thought something was wrong.

I would say that nitrate still needs to be monitored, because it is the end product of the filtration.

By all means go with LR in addition to or instead of bio balls. Many kinds of fish like LR to hide in. Might as well use natural decor, maybe mix LR with some base rock to save some money for that skimmer (though I ran FO and FOWLR tanks without a skimmer or a DSB for a couple of years, keeping nitrates low by keeping bioload low, doing plenty of WC, & keeping filter media clean).

[dchao]

This is what I would do.

Test Alk and Ca weekly to establish the consumption, then test Alk and Ca monthly.

Test NO3 weekly until NO3 stable, test monthly thereafter.

There is no need to test nitrite. It's not important in salt water.

I test SG during WC.

If pH is outside the normal daily pattern, test Alk, Nitrate immediately. Figure out what's wrong.

[reefer1187]

my lfs told me its the nitrites which more affects the fish then the nitrates....but he also said that it is something which dosnt changed often unless there is a heavy bioload, overfeeding, etc.... is this right?

[StupidsReef]

LR will take care of "Nitrites" turning them into "Nitrates" So dchao was correct. Thats my understanding of have LR in the tank as it is the natural filtering system.

[dchao]

Here is a quote from Randy's article on water parameters:


Nitrite

Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite!17 Until future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, nitrite is not an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.

ref: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php