AI Vega Color/Blue Owners Thread!

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by advancebc29

That graph is very misleading. You are not seeing an actual real spectrum output but just a mashup of all the spectrum outputs of the LEDs from specsheets. From what I read the osram oslon deep blue specs have a range of 449 to 453. If they do have anything in the 420 it is so little it is not worth it.

how much 420? LOTS as it is a major spectrum for photosynthesis. look at a spectrum output of any good halide bulb or good t5 bulb combination.

the DIY LED crowd have been using 420 for a while now with good results. My anger is not towards anyone on here but to the light companies that keep ignoring everything that is known about lighting reef tanks successfully that have been proven in both halide and t5 light tech

Yep, the dominant wavelength in OSRAM's datasheet is in between 450-460. It is technically just another type of Royal Blue.

The failure of AI to include 420nm again, to not even use newer generation Crees, and to fail to compensate blue/white power which is now going to colored leds less useful for growth and more for aesthetics really makes you wonder if they truly know what they are doing. Based on the previous AI Sol Blue, I don't believe they do.

Actually, they do know what they are doing. They'll gladly charge you again for a puck with a good mix of colors which should have been there in the first place. Vertex is guilty of the same thing with their "UV and Red" pads.

[advancebc29]

^ I like this person

This is the best specs I have come up with and also the lowest spectrum deep blue out of any osram deep blues. The peak is still around 455 with the range of 439 to 461.

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogu...t=showBookmark

At this point I would like to call out AI for their spectrum graph.

[Dseg]

Originally Posted by bhazard451

Yep, the dominant wavelength in OSRAM's datasheet is in between 450-460. It is technically just another type of Royal Blue.

The failure of AI to include 420nm again, to not even use newer generation Crees, and to fail to compensate blue/white power which is now going to colored leds less useful for growth and more for aesthetics really makes you wonder if they truly know what they are doing. Based on the previous AI Sol Blue, I don't believe they do.

Actually, they do know what they are doing. They'll gladly charge you again for a puck with a good mix of colors which should have been there in the first place. Vertex is guilty of the same thing with their "UV and Red" pads.

Well put. This thread made me hold off on my order for new LEDs...

[SteveWong]

I see now that the new controller requires continuous communication with the lights, thus, I see why it needs a power connection. This makes technical sense but differs from the advertisement/website.

I'd strongly advise the company to change its website: it clearly shows the unit with an active screen but NOTHING plugged into its power port -- this is deceitful and false advertising -- clearly a photoshopped mockup with an active screen. Its no wonder we're disappointed.

This would have been solved if the Vega units themselves had an onboard setting memory and firmware that would operate independently, but just needs the external controller to update their settings. Then, the controller could be the wireless/battery operated device depicted on the site.

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by bhazard451

Yep, the dominant wavelength in OSRAM's datasheet is in between 450-460. It is technically just another type of Royal Blue.

The failure of AI to include 420nm again, to not even use newer generation Crees, and to fail to compensate blue/white power which is now going to colored leds less useful for growth and more for aesthetics really makes you wonder if they truly know what they are doing. Based on the previous AI Sol Blue, I don't believe they do.

Actually, they do know what they are doing. They'll gladly charge you again for a puck with a good mix of colors which should have been there in the first place. Vertex is guilty of the same thing with their "UV and Red" pads.

They know exactly what they are doing, they are propping up the cash flow, at reefers expense. I have such high hopes for LED fixtures, but so far the only that truly interests me is the ReefTech Poseidon, it does have HPL UV's but as of yet I have not found out exactly what spectrum they cover. http://www.reeftech-marine.com/products.html

I have spoken with the owner several months back and his goal was to create the ultimate fixture, complete iPad control of lights and enough power to handle any typical tank setting. Unfortunately I have not been able to see one of these fixtures in person, but those who have seem very happy with the color rendition. Time will tell but it appears someone is trying to do it right. AI doesn't seem to be that company. I know their products will grow corals but the majority of people leaving LED's and going back to traditional lighting have left AI.

[Skipponator]

So much good input here since I last posted. I won't beat a dead horse but hopefully AI listens and makes due refinements and does not charge it's buyers for them.

[cclough_AI]

Here's the spectral data.

RC will not allow the raw data uploaded due to size.

Taken last month, using OceanOptics USB4000.

[Saltwatercoral2]

Originally Posted by Skipponator

So much good input here since I last posted. I won't beat a dead horse but hopefully AI listens and makes due refinements and does not charge it's buyers for them.

Thats asking an awful lot from AI. But I do agree

[Skipponator]

I have to say, after the first full day, I have visually noticed a better looking leather. Its body is more defined and all the polyps are out around the clock, even with the 1% moon. With MH/VHO it'd retract and turn into the chubby thing that it does for defense as well as not being so defined for a body. The frag below it seems to be doing better as well. Zoas are very colorful and not closing up, and Xenia is doing its regular thing.


I did make a hanger for $4 per unit. Since I have a large canopy, I don't need something elegant, just functional:


I currently have it attached into the floor joists above my false ceiling. Next week I will actually have it mounted to the canopy with a support going across the top of the canopy. This will hide all my chain and cable work from both my lights and give me a clean false ceiling.

Parts(per each fixture):

2: 10-32 stainless screws, mine are 3/4" I believe. $.37/ea
4: Stainless finishing washers to take up leftover gap from the brackets. $.12/ea
1: Pack of small brass L-brackets, a pack comes with four, so you obviously only need two for each light. $2.99
1: 3' decorative chain, found in clearance for $1.10 at Menards garden supply, otherwise, their normal household chain in the lighting department is $2.99 for a 3' section. Once I hook it up to the canopy, one 3' chain should suffice for two lights.

Chain is not as fine tunable as the manufactured hanging kit, but, with physical tweaking of links it can be. $8 with tax vs $70+shipping.....

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by Dseg

Well put. This thread made me hold off on my order for new LEDs...

Its not that I don't like leds, I love them, but what a majority of main players in aquatic led lighting are doing is downright deceitful. If you pay the premium expected for these lights, they better offer premium performance with it that you would expect from other forms of lighting. It is stifling an otherwise awesome new industry.

I don't blame people for sticking with MH when things like this are going on.

[Dseg]

Originally Posted by bhazard451

Its not that I don't like leds, I love them, but what a majority of main players in aquatic led lighting are doing is downright deceitful. If you pay the premium expected for these lights, they better offer premium performance with it that you would expect from other forms of lighting. It is stifling an otherwise awesome new industry.

I don't blame people for sticking with MH when things like this are going on.

Well I was going to upgrade to the Vegas but now I think I might just add retro fitted T5s. But then I think I would need a canopy. I am looking for a way around this. I am thinking I would only need two bulbs.

[qfrisco]

Originally Posted by cclough_AI

Here's the spectral data.

RC will not allow the raw data uploaded due to size.

Taken last month, using OceanOptics USB4000.

Hi Chris!

Nice to see you here, and thanks for posting the spectral data! I don't know much about how spectrometers work, but I assume the data in this graph was collected with all LEDs on at the same time and is not a composite of each individual LED's spectral output as has been implied in this thread?

The Vegas are my first experience with LEDs (as the main lighting for my tank) so I kept two T5s in my canopy in the event I find I need to supplement, and seeing the actual spectral data is awesome.

Thanks!

[mcjlance]

Judging by the increasing negative tone of this thread, it sounds like this system is not worth the money spent.
Is this the case? or is everyone just saying they are unhappy with the misleading advertising?

[gbreynol]

My impressions so far....Sorry my DSLR shots came out horrible...

Controller
-I do not have any controller sensitivity issues(firmware 1.0.34). I have 2 of them and both work okay. Some buttons you do have to hold down for a few seconds as a safety feature. I have one controlling my nano and it is powered off the normal comm cable. I feel it is a huge upgrade over the knob controller.
-Finding the lights works great, but assigning them to the proper order has been a nightmare. The controller does not give the proper available positions of lights.
-Lighting and weather works for me.

Lights
Pros
-Improved color.
-They seem as bright as my Sols.
-Light Spread covers my entire frag tank(need fewer units?).
-Less wires, less weight, smaller.
Cons
-Reds and Greens can cast shadows.
-My MP40 is going to need to be moved because the ripples on the surface are causing a disco effect under one of the lights.


I will definitely be buying the Director link when it comes out. I hope it supports Macs.
I had 7 Sols, but I think I can get away with 5 Vegas. What do do with the extras.......







A bit of red shadow.

[gbreynol]

Originally Posted by mcjlance

Judging by the increasing negative tone of this thread, it sounds like this system is not worth the money spent.
Is this the case? or is everyone just saying they are unhappy with the misleading advertising?

It is more of an evolution over the Sols, than a monster upgrade. It's like the iPhone 4S compared to the iPhone 5...... But for me I had the iPhone 4S, and ordered my 5 this morning......




mcjlance I'm in Newport, RI too. I thought I was the only reefer here.

[Bugger]

What size tank is that last picture

[qfrisco]

Originally Posted by mcjlance

Judging by the increasing negative tone of this thread, it sounds like this system is not worth the money spent.
Is this the case? or is everyone just saying they are unhappy with the misleading advertising?

I think if you read the entire thread, the summary would be:

- all owners are happy with the lights and the build, but unhappy with the controller (not worth the cost)
- you could argue that the advertising is misleading
- some LED DIYers are unhappy with the lack of dedicated 420nm LEDs. Chris (President of AI) posted the actual spectrometer plots.
- jury is still out on PAR, but there's plenty of info out there pointing to PAR not being an accurate measurement of LED's light output

Personally, I consider the money I spent very well spent for the lights, so so for the controller. :-)

[zerreissen]

Originally Posted by qfrisco

I think if you read the entire thread, the summary would be:

- all owners are happy with the lights and the build, but unhappy with the controller (not worth the cost)
- you could argue that the advertising is misleading
- some LED DIYers are unhappy with the lack of dedicated 420nm LEDs. Chris (President of AI) posted the actual spectrometer plots.
- jury is still out on PAR, but there's plenty of info out there pointing to PAR not being an accurate measurement of LED's light output

Personally, I consider the money I spent very well spent for the lights, so so for the controller. :-)

I agree with these statements.

[MBSL55]

Originally Posted by qfrisco

I think if you read the entire thread, the summary would be:

- all owners are happy with the lights and the build, but unhappy with the controller (not worth the cost)
- you could argue that the advertising is misleading
- some LED DIYers are unhappy with the lack of dedicated 420nm LEDs. Chris (President of AI) posted the actual spectrometer plots.
- jury is still out on PAR, but there's plenty of info out there pointing to PAR not being an accurate measurement of LED's light output

Personally, I consider the money I spent very well spent for the lights, so so for the controller. :-)

Agree for the most part. I like these a LOT more than my Sols given the extra control, color, and options.

Now that my controller works, I'm happy with that too considering it was only $80 and offers all the basics I'll need for now. Although I have a Apex VDM for my Sols, I never really messed with it much as I am not as much of a techie as others. My WXM module has been sitting in a box for about 3 months now too. One day I might actually set it up to run my Vortechs. I'll probably just stick with the AI controller this time around.

I'll be taking my own PAR measurements this weekend and see how they compare to my existing setup with AI Sols and 70 degree optics.

[qfrisco]

@mbsl55 - you mentioned a few posts back that you would also play with moving pucks around. Do you think you can take pics along the way? I'm curious how the light comes apart and how the pucks are mounted in place, etc.

[Skipponator]

Originally Posted by zerreissen

I agree with these statements.

I also agree.

I think the big thing is, that this is the absolute most recent upgrade of an LED fixture available to the day, and many expect more. This is my first time going to LEDs(and I just got T5s for the other side of the tank this week) so the LED hop is all new to me. I feel I will be happy with the lights, the controller, as most everyone else will say needs work, especially for the misleading info out there that others have clearly addressed(The picture of the controller operating without a cord cracks me up).

I personally wonder if I should have gotten a blue instead. I will be honest, I am not all familiar with the lingo for LEDs, so what is a puck? Is it a seperate LED and housing that can be exchanged? Like, if I want to ditch a red I could get a different color and change it out?

If that is the case, I would love to see consumers offered the option to exchange like a red or green for a 420nm option, at a discount/straight exchange, instead of having to shell out loads of money, especially for those that have pre-ordered.

Sure, I own one Vega, but I will need another if I like it, those that invested for multiple units will surely feel the buyer's remorse moreso than someone who buys one or two, but we are all the same, as a consumer.

I also feel this thread can be a great tool for AI so they can make the adjustments necessary and be on the cutting edge, or darn close to it!


On another note, I will ask again, what does OFF % mean? If I have 89% on, and 34% off on the same color, the math doesn't make sense, especially when I don't know what it means.

[mcjlance]

Originally Posted by qfrisco

I think if you read the entire thread, the summary would be:

- all owners are happy with the lights and the build, but unhappy with the controller (not worth the cost)
- you could argue that the advertising is misleading
- some LED DIYers are unhappy with the lack of dedicated 420nm LEDs. Chris (President of AI) posted the actual spectrometer plots.
- jury is still out on PAR, but there's plenty of info out there pointing to PAR not being an accurate measurement of LED's light output

Personally, I consider the money I spent very well spent for the lights, so so for the controller. :-)

I did read the entire thread (all 10 pages). That being said, often human beings give their opinions in part but don't necessarily summarize. So I may write a negative piece about a car but overall I'm happy with the car, and I would buy it again. If there are complaints about spectrum or a controller, I don't want the dissatisfaction of that to lead me to believe the individual regrets their purchase. That is why I asked point blank of the individuals who purchased the units, "was it money well spent". I feel this is an appropriate question, and had not been asked yet. Now it has.

[mcjlance]

Originally Posted by gbreynol

It is more of an evolution over the Sols, than a monster upgrade. It's like the iPhone 4S compared to the iPhone 5...... But for me I had the iPhone 4S, and ordered my 5 this morning......




mcjlance I'm in Newport, RI too. I thought I was the only reefer here.

Excellent! I know not too many reefers around, especially with all the LFS's closing. Where in Newport do you live?

[qfrisco]

Originally Posted by mcjlance

I did read the entire thread (all 10 pages). That being said, often human beings give their opinions in part but don't necessarily summarize. So I may write a negative piece about a car but overall I'm happy with the car, and I would buy it again. If there are complaints about spectrum or a controller, I don't want the dissatisfaction of that to lead me to believe the individual regrets their purchase. That is why I asked point blank of the individuals who purchased the units, "was it money well spent". I feel this is an appropriate question, and had not been asked yet. Now it has.

Sorry - I did not intend to sound like a smart ***. If I did, apologies. :-)

[qfrisco]

Originally Posted by Skipponator

I personally wonder if I should have gotten a blue instead. I will be honest, I am not all familiar with the lingo for LEDs, so what is a puck? Is it a seperate LED and housing that can be exchanged? Like, if I want to ditch a red I could get a different color and change it out?

The pucks (I think AI actually calls them pods) are the individual sets of LEDs. On the Vegas, for example, there are four pucks or pods.

Originally Posted by Skipponator

On another note, I will ask again, what does OFF % mean? If I have 89% on, and 34% off on the same color, the math doesn't make sense, especially when I don't know what it means.

The OFF % is the intensity you want that particular LED to light up when the lights are off, i.e., after sunset and before sunrise. This is how you would setup moonlights, for example.