My Project ★ GENESIS ★ 110G (Miracle) SPS Dream Tank - (II) Build Thread

[reefmutt]

I suppose a light infection of ich may be helped by a cleaner..
Soak your frozen food in garlic..
Also, Polyp Lab’s Medic may help slow down the ich cycle. It’s basically a dry form hydrogen peroxide. It interferes with the breeding cycle of ich..
And is reef safe

[tenurepro]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

DARN IT ( NEW Copperband Butterfly has ICH) BUT THERE IS HOPE (this time...Unlike Power Brown Tang)



Killing time while TRIM paint dries (10 minutes more).



So that new Copperband Butterfly [KITCHEN TANK] was doing well (still is), but last night I saw him running back and forth rubbing against Tank Glass.



Today he calmed down (But I see few ICH Spots. I was video taping him to observe ICH/Behavior, and there might be hope (only hope).



All Fish Are cheering him on as seen in Video.....



COPPERBAND going to Cleaner Shrimps Cleaning station and getting his ICH picked off.



See it yourself



https://youtu.be/VByjFYDia_g



I can't catch him in my Complex Reef Tank. Fish Trap won't work, since he is picky eater....... so my only hope is Cleaner Shrimp.



I did research reading and Cleaner Shrimp can save a fish with ICH.



TRUE? Or NOT True?

Ouch - sorry to hear that. Keep an eye out on the other fish. I don’t know about the effectiveness of the shrimp... it may increase the odds of recovery or give you some time to try polyp lab medic... if it spreads, consider trapping the resident fish and moving them into a separate tank for treatment with copper
Consider also running an adequately sized uv sterilizer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I suppose a light infection of ich may be helped by a cleaner..
Soak your frozen food in garlic..
Also, Polyp Lab’s Medic may help slow down the ich cycle. It’s basically a dry form hydrogen peroxide. It interferes with the breeding cycle of ich..
And is reef safe

Garlic won't work. He isn't eating food. Just eating pods, and things on rocks.

However Last time with Powder Brown, I waiting (doing nothing) with hope and then it was too late.

This time, I'm getting the Poly Lab Medic right away.
Ordered, and will be here Weds.

I have a suspicion that this Tank somehow never got rid of Ich since last time.
So if this CopperBand Dies. I'll strip the Tank of fish.
Getting warmer so can remove rocks onto Deck and put back after catching fish.
Put fish into my OLD 65 (Treat, Transfer Method), and Let Kitchen tank go fallow.

I need to break this tanks ich cycle.

Understand it may come back, but at least I'll know it's not lingering.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by tenurepro

Ouch - sorry to hear that. Keep an eye out on the other fish. I don’t know about the effectiveness of the shrimp... it may increase the odds of recovery or give you some time to try polyp lab medic... if it spreads, consider trapping the resident fish and moving them into a separate tank for treatment with copper
Consider also running an adequately sized uv sterilizer

Can I rent yours?

[Wally.B]

CAUGHT Copperband (30 Seconds. First Try) FlashLight Trick Worked

I wasn't looking forward to trying to treat the Whole Kitchen Tank.

I saw the Copperband pacing along the Glass in Darkness. (not as bad as last night).

I remember someone telling me you could STUN a FISH IN DARKNESS with a bright Light.

So I tried it. First I just shined the light, and I noticed I could distract him.
I had my biggest net ready, and I simply pointed the light and got the net up against glass where he was.

I didn't believe it (He was Caught First Attempt) , so just ran downstairs and placed in to the 65 Gal which is still running.



NOW I HAVE OPTIONS.

1) Tank Transfer Method
2) Copper
3) The Poly Lab Med (which I can also treat the Kitchen Tank since I ordered it)

HE won't die tonight so will get organized.


I need to get him some food, so maybe a rock full of Aptasia from Tank.

[Wally.B]

I guess I did the First Step in the Tank Transfer Method
https://www.r 2 r.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655


•Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
•Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
•Day 7 - Repeat.
•Day 10 - Repeat.
•Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

Will Prepare OLD 10Gal QT...Make NEW Water...To get Ready for Day 4 (3 days from now [or less than 72 hours] )

[Rakie]

Nice catch. Don't worry it was a good choice to catch him anyways -- It may not physically be on him right now, but he's still sick.

Feed him a lot. For me, the best bet for solid recovery is a large variety of healthy foods. And lots of it.

I like Selcon, and AquaForest FishV as additives -- They have lipids and vitamins. FishV smells like vitamins people take, I noticed a big difference in health from adding FishV, and selcon for that matter. My fish also like selco boost -- I don't care for it, but it's the first thing to entice a finicky fish so it has a spot in my fridge.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Nice catch. Don't worry it was a good choice to catch him anyways -- It may not physically be on him right now, but he's still sick.

Feed him a lot. For me, the best bet for solid recovery is a large variety of healthy foods. And lots of it.

I like Selcon, and AquaForest FishV as additives -- They have lipids and vitamins. FishV smells like vitamins people take, I noticed a big difference in health from adding FishV, and selcon for that matter. My fish also like selco boost -- I don't care for it, but it's the first thing to entice a finicky fish so it has a spot in my fridge.

I just looked really close. He still has some ich on tail.

Food is an issue. He wasn't eating anything I throw in Tank YET.
I do have a batch of Baby Brine Shrimp I made a few days ago (for Anthias)
Been Feeding them Reef Nutrition PhytoFeast (so they are not just hollow brine).

This tank has 50 Bristle Star Worms hiding somewhere, so maybe adding a rock for them to attach to might provide some food.

Should I add a rock with Aptasia?

But will try the Reef Nutrition Artipod I got for Anthias. Still have a unused bottle.

Whatever Happens.....Happens....But this is the Best Luck I've had in a long time.

[sensei]

Wally,
Copperbands are difficult fish, I have tried 3 times and have not been able to make them eat frozen. They eat live, so you could try the big live myses that they sell in LFS. was the copper eating in LFS, did you see fish eat?

you only need 4 transffers of 3 days to cure fish from ich, not 5 as you stated above.

I have never placed rocks when treating fish, ichs cysts could enquist in rock and you would not be able to use it anymore until after it is 72 days in fishless tank. and if rock is in an untreated tank, it could bring diseases in.

you can also try placing and open frozen clam in tank, to see if fish picks.

are you treating only fish that show ich symptoms or all new fish?

at the same time that I treat ich in TTM I do praziquantel in 2nd and 4th transffer, so at the end of TTM you treat flukes and ich.

do you have a hospital cycled tank to observe fish after TTM?

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by sensei

Wally,
Copperbands are difficult fish, I have tried 3 times and have not been able to make them eat frozen. They eat live, so you could try the big live myses that they sell in LFS. was the copper eating in LFS, did you see fish eat?

you only need 4 transffers of 3 days to cure fish from ich, not 5 as you stated above.

I have never placed rocks when treating fish, ichs cysts could enquist in rock and you would not be able to use it anymore until after it is 72 days in fishless tank. and if rock is in an untreated tank, it could bring diseases in.

you can also try placing and open frozen clam in tank, to see if fish picks.

are you treating only fish that show ich symptoms or all new fish?

at the same time that I treat ich in TTM I do praziquantel in 2nd and 4th transffer, so at the end of TTM you treat flukes and ich.

do you have a hospital cycled tank to observe fish after TTM?

Hi Sensei,

I know copperbands are tough, but I had one for 4 years. Same situation, I had Aptasia. He ate them, then learned to eat Frozen Brine Shrimp.
THIS ONE IS EATTING (stuff on rocks...Nothing floating)

I was thinking about you since you are my QT expert.

I know brining in rocks isn't ideal since they will get contaminated, but I am thinking of sacrificing a few SMALL JUICY rock full of Life, PODS, and Aptasia since THAT IS WHAT HE WAS EATING FROM in Kitchen Tank. I can kill a rock after each transfer.
BUT I am going to Local Grocery Store and Fish Section to get an OPEN CLAM.


I am treating only the Copperband since the fish in Kitchen Tank never get ICH. I will watch, but like last time with Powder Brown, I can't get fish out without tearing apart the tank.
But I will treat my Kitchen Tank with the Polyp Lab Medic since I already bought it.

Thanks for the 4 NOT 5 Transfers TIP. Less is better.

I will look into praziquantel for the 2nd transfer.
I need to make it to next transfer right now.

I have 3 TANKS to do this treatment.
-> The 65 Gal Tank he is in now
-> Two more EMPTY 10 Gallon Tanks.

I am only treating the NEW fish in Kitchen Tank.
The OTHER two new Fish (Wrasse, BlackCap) in Separate QT are doing fine and have never been in contact with anything else.

[Wally.B]

What about doing a FRESH WATER DIP.
Never done one, but this might be a chance to learn.

Or even a difffent DIP like Peroxide Dip.

Tank Transfer is best, for safety.

[reefmutt]

Freshwater dip is unbelievably stressful on the fish..
I don’t do it anymore but I used to.. so hard to tell what the fish can tolerate. I’ve seen tangs die after a few minutes but I had niger trigger go for over 15 minutes without much problem.. really varies. I’d suspect a copper band would not last long.

[Rakie]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Freshwater dip is unbelievably stressful on the fish..
I don’t do it anymore but I used to.. so hard to tell what the fish can tolerate. I’ve seen tangs die after a few minutes but I had niger trigger go for over 15 minutes without much problem.. really varies. I’d suspect a copper band would not last long.

Interesting, I've always been told the opposite. I've done freshwater dips with no issue.

I think it comes down to a few things; The water being at proper temperature, pH, and well oxygenated. It should also be done before the fish has been acclimated to high Salinity, otherwise you're going from one stress to another, and as we all know Stress x Stress = Bad

[Wally.B]

SOME More LUCK (Copperband eating in Old 65GAL)

The OLD 65 Must have tons of LIFE since it was DT for years, and I left all the Dust, shells at bottom.

Here I caught him picking at Substrate. So he is eating PODS or something.

https://youtu.be/QbkZfasnbwY (24 second video)

If I flush this tank for TRANSFER, then all this life will be gone.

Tough choices. I have The Treatment PolyLAB Medic coming tomorrow.

Maybe do transfer to 10Gal, and Keep this Tank in case things go well.

I can do more transfers if needed.

A Copperband eating is most important.

[Wally.B]

Just the BREAK I REALLY NEED (Wrasse and Blackcap Eatting Ferociously in FRAG TANK QT) FRozen Brine Shrimp

I have a lot on my hands right now and at least I don't have this to worry about.

The new fish in FRAG TANK QT are eating HUGE chunks of Frozen Brine Shrimp Food.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Freshwater dip is unbelievably stressful on the fish..
I don’t do it anymore but I used to.. so hard to tell what the fish can tolerate. I’ve seen tangs die after a few minutes but I had niger trigger go for over 15 minutes without much problem.. really varies. I’d suspect a copper band would not last long.

I understand, and TTM is better.
But if I am to do Fresh Water Dip, isn't it better to do while fish is Healthy and Strong.
JUST THINKING OUT LOUD.

I watched this Video Showing Fresh Water DIp process. Looks scary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po_dvEr5DL0

CLOCK is ticking. I need to make some decisions, in next two days.

I am leaning toward TTM and Poly Lab Medic Combined.

[Rakie]

Another good food to try is Mastik -- It's a powder which you turn into a paste, which is perfect for fish that pick at foods like shells and such, you can mix anything with it, a lil RODI water, and smear it on a clam shell. Fish that are extremely finicky eaters (like butterflys) typically pick at food in the wild. Some don't fully understand food in the water column, because it's not how they do it in the wild.

You gotta train him how to eat Wally

[JonezNReef]

I had a Ich outbreak once. I removed all fish and let the tank they were in sit fallow for 72 day and put all my fish through TTM. If you do the TTM correctly it is totally worth the effort because you won't have to worry about Ich anymore. But just make sure that any tank thats had infected fish sits fallow for atleast 72 days to make sure the parasites are all dead and there life cycle has completed without a host fish to continue the cycle. I now TTM all new arrivals and haven't seen Ich since.

[Wally.B]

WOW!!!!! (The Wall Color Matching Trim) LOOKS AMAZING!!!

Just taped up Painted Trim to have a peek. Such a transformation. I didn't expect this.

It's Exactly what I wanted. Looks Crisp, Clean and SLICK!! (With a Certain Touch of Invisible Seam)

Just like the original Design (4 Months ago), but a Tiny bit better.

About to assemble and glue on.....

PHOTO COMING SOON.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Another good food to try is Mastik -- It's a powder which you turn into a paste, which is perfect for fish that pick at foods like shells and such, you can mix anything with it, a lil RODI water, and smear it on a clam shell. Fish that are extremely finicky eaters (like butterflys) typically pick at food in the wild. Some don't fully understand food in the water column, because it's not how they do it in the wild.

You gotta train him how to eat Wally

Funny you should mention MASTIK.
Tunurepro got some and it just worked for him for a Finiky new fish.
I have a bit in freezer. He gave me a sample.

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by JonezNReef

I had a Ich outbreak once. I removed all fish and let the tank they were in sit fallow for 72 day and put all my fish through TTM. If you do the TTM correctly it is totally worth the effort because you won't have to worry about Ich anymore. But just make sure that any tank thats had infected fish sits fallow for atleast 72 days to make sure the parasites are all dead and there life cycle has completed without a host fish to continue the cycle. I now TTM all new arrivals and haven't seen Ich since.

Yes, I actually did 72 Days of Fallow in my Kitchen tank years ago, after Velvet Wiped out every fish.

Can't do that again, since tank way to complex to rip apart to catch all fish.
Maybe I can try with a fish trap over a period of time.

[Wally.B]

CHIA-FIN (DIY Food Dispenser) Limited MASTIK Food

So I lost that ball of MATIK Food, and Tenurpro was nice enough to give me another.

Will order more if this works. For Copperband and Future Finky fish.

PICTURE Explains it all.

Got his idea from the Chia-Pet product, and how you smear pasted seeds on a porous figure.



I made the Acrylic Magnetic Plates for my DIY water Changer Level Sesnors (to adjust water change Levels).. Just a few holes needed....

The Copperband Butterfly is Hovering around it, but he is way to busy eating something else in this Mature Tank.

This may work for next TRANSFER QT Tank.

[Rakie]

Honestly, I'd put the Mastik on a shell. That's more their style

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by Rakie

Honestly, I'd put the Mastik on a shell. That's more their style

I would have but till I order some (takes a week to arrive), I have one tiny Ball, so it need to not be wasted.
It floats away after a while stuck on.

[sensei]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

Hi Sensei,

I know copperbands are tough, but I had one for 4 years. Same situation, I had Aptasia. He ate them, then learned to eat Frozen Brine Shrimp.
THIS ONE IS EATTING (stuff on rocks...Nothing floating)

I was thinking about you since you are my QT expert.

I know brining in rocks isn't ideal since they will get contaminated, but I am thinking of sacrificing a few SMALL JUICY rock full of Life, PODS, and Aptasia since THAT IS WHAT HE WAS EATING FROM in Kitchen Tank. I can kill a rock after each transfer.
BUT I am going to Local Grocery Store and Fish Section to get an OPEN CLAM.


I am treating only the Copperband since the fish in Kitchen Tank never get ICH. I will watch, but like last time with Powder Brown, I can't get fish out without tearing apart the tank.
But I will treat my Kitchen Tank with the Polyp Lab Medic since I already bought it.

Thanks for the 4 NOT 5 Transfers TIP. Less is better.

I will look into praziquantel for the 2nd transfer.
I need to make it to next transfer right now.

I have 3 TANKS to do this treatment.
-> The 65 Gal Tank he is in now
-> Two more EMPTY 10 Gallon Tanks.

I am only treating the NEW fish in Kitchen Tank.
The OTHER two new Fish (Wrasse, BlackCap) in Separate QT are doing fine and have never been in contact with anything else.

I am not sure if understand correctly:
you are treating all new fish or only the ones that show symptoms like the copper??

I ask because you can do several fish at same time in same tank with TTM , specially if they are small. You can also add "prime" or any other amonia detox product in the 2nd and 3rd day for peace of mind in case you feel the load is big for the TTTank.

I am sure you know this, but velvet could manifest at the 6 or 7th week after the new fish arrive because low copper concentration water where they are kept in LFS inhibits the disease for some time, so it is risky to introduce new fish even after you do TTM and prazi. Ideally you need to observe after TTM in a cycled hospital tank to be sure.

either you treat new arrivals for velvet also or you wait and observe after TTM.

best regards