Melev's new 280g Starfire tank thread - Page 10

Micki · 04/27/2006, 05:41 AM

Marc, how do tiger tails reproduce? I have had 2 of them for almost a year. You mentioned split?

Stile2 · 04/27/2006, 06:23 AM

Sorry for the troubles. What do you mean by "RTNing"?

Keith

NexDog · 04/27/2006, 07:07 AM

Rapid Tissue Necrosis....

Marc, in relation to other incidents you've had in the past, do you think this latest batch of RTNs and other problems has a higher time to problem ratio? Just trying to work out if you think Prodibio is the cause as I'm sure you are....

melev · 04/27/2006, 09:12 AM

Overall, everything is fine. I mention the few things that bother me because I'd like my reef to be 100% happy all the time. Odds are every one of us have one or two corals that aren't doing well while the rest are just fine, and we put all our attention on the few in hopes of getting them to rebound.

An important facet to keep in mind is the combining of many different species in one contained water source. Running a good quality skimmer, using a DSB, filtering with lots of live rock, adding fresh carbon actively as well as running phosphate removers all help, but in nature, we just don't see the mixture of livestock that we tend to accumulate. We see it, it's pretty, we buy it, and then put it in a spot that doesn't touch its neighbor. Even under the best of circumstances, some stuff won't survive.

If I had access to natural sea water and could change out the system daily with new water, odds are I could pull off what I wish. But I don't, and running a mixed reef with softies, SPS, and anemones as well as fish can be quite taxing.

The frag I got from Zenya has looked amazing for months. Matter of fact, I posted a lovely picture of it from above about two months ago. Then one of those stupid mushrooms in my tank blossomed too close to it, so I had to move the frag. It could be the Prodibio products affected this coral, or it could be the residual sting of the mushroom, or it could be the move to a different spot (differing flow, differing lighting, differing neighbors) that caused this little guy to RTN on me. I hate that.

Regarding cucumbers, they just pull themselves in two usually. I really like Tigertail cucumbers because they are interesting looking. I've seen others that just look plain and ugly, and I won't even get them for our monthly club raffle.

I don't necessarily believe Prodibio has done anything in my tank yet, plus or minus. Today it is time to dose again, and I'm going to use Reef Booster for the first time as well.

Airman · 04/27/2006, 11:42 AM

Question about something I saw in my tank last night. About a week ago notice little baby pepperment shrimp in my live rock. I have been looking at them every night because they are cool to look at and I want to see if they are going to make it. So far so good. Last night found hundreds of tiny transluscent shrimps swimming freely in the tank. I shutoff all of the pumps to better look because the flow was tossing them around. They are clear with white specks that reflect the light. They drawn to the LED flashlight I use to look at with. My pepperment shrimp and yellow clown goby enjoy eating them. They followed the light anywhere I moved it in the tank. My question is did I have a big birth of mysis pods? There was about two to three hundred easy. I did scoop some out and put them in my refugium where flow is a little slower. As anyone had this happen to them?

thewuf · 04/27/2006, 12:39 PM

Marc -

I had a similar situation with my Euphylia's dying one head at a time. After losing several colonies I figured "What the heck" took them out and dipped them in very cool RO water, and two small nudibranch guys fell out. Replaced the corals and they are doing fine ever since. Then I read that there is such a critter that eats euphylias.

Just a thought.

Chris

cabbagehead · 04/27/2006, 07:20 PM

Marc,
Great thread!! I was listening to the podcasts on my way to work and I heard you mention you had a Phosban reactor. I was wondering what pump you are using with it? I think the only pumps I saw that were rated close to 100gph were RIOs. PLEASE keep up the good work with the podcasts. Thanks
Jack

melev · 04/28/2006, 12:48 AM

Airman - You may be looking at baby peppermint shrimp in your tank. Try looking at this video: http://www.melevsreef.com/video/lil_angels.wmv & http://www.melevsreef.com/video/angels_of.wmv

Chris - I'll try that. That would be surprising, but at least I'd know what had happened!

Jack - Thanks. Btw, we aren't allowed to have URLs in our signature lines. The pump I use is a Maxijet. Phosban Reactors come with a ballvalve, so you can control the amount of water flowing into th e reactor. A Maxijet 600 is plenty.

Airman · 04/28/2006, 08:26 AM

Yes that what I saw about two nights ago. Last night looked again but they are all gone

I still have the little shrimps inside of the LR that is about two weeks old. After you shot the video was did your little shrimp disappear the next day?

Spiffyguy · 04/28/2006, 08:57 AM

My Peppermint Shrimp larve last maybe one full day before they are blown into the over flow or the powerhead. I suspect they would run out of food before long. When mine hatch you I don't see the numbers melev does. I suspect the hatch is large but the MJ1200 in my tank takes them out fairly quick. The shrimps on your live rock may be Mysis. I have tons of those swimming around.

Airman · 04/28/2006, 02:25 PM

I think and hoping that it is pepperment shrimp inside of the live rock.

Airman · 04/28/2006, 02:26 PM

I thinking and hoping that it is pepperment shrimp inside of the live rock.

melev · 04/28/2006, 06:42 PM

Mine didn't live long. The rest of the reef ate them.

itstheantitang · 04/28/2006, 09:14 PM

Wouldn't be much of a shrimp cocktail.

melev · 04/29/2006, 12:22 AM

Here's an interesting update, but no picture unfortunately.

I saw my blood shrimp today, and I never, and I mean never, ever see it. It hides in the rockwork all the time, and even late night I just see its antennae waving until the flashlight hits its spot.

The Copperband Butterfly was hovering next to it in the cave spot (center of the tank) and the Blood Shrimp was cleaning its gills. That was pretty cool to watch. It pulled the gills out quite far, almost uncomfortably, but the Copperband seemed to enjoy it.

Konadog · 04/29/2006, 12:27 AM

Shrimp are very strange!
I just added four cleaners to my tank yesterday, and was watching three of them work my sailfin tang over tonight.

melev · 04/29/2006, 03:30 AM

Here's that hammer.

So an hour ago, I pulled it out and put it in a bowl of room temperature RO/DI water to see if I could spy some LPS eating nudibranchs. I'll tell you this, that coral stunk before I was able to submerge it. Several baby brittle starfish fell off of it, as did a collonista snail and some asterinas. But I didn't see any sign of predators. Where it was dying, it was dissolving, but I didn't see the tell-tale signs of brown jelly disease either.

So next I grabbed my shears and the dremel, and cut off the last remaining heads. These were then put in my quarantine tank, and the water felt a tad warm. Oops. It was around 86F because today I didn't run the a/c and just let the outdoor air flow through the house. We've had lots of humidity and some rain, but the temperature was in the 70s. Looks like the MH heated up the fishroom enough to cook the q-tank a tad. So if any nudibranchs survived the ro/di dip, and then the surgical procedure, I think getting a 6 degree raise in temp should have scared them out of hiding.

I don't know if the remaining polyps will survive, but I'm going to keep a positive attitude. I put some ice packs in the tank to cool the water. The temp of my reef was 80.5, so it was definitely a shocker.

The rest of the skeleton was disposed of, instead of putting it in the sump or refugium. I didn't want the dying matter to add issues to the water quality. Does anyone have any idea what to do with hammer tissue (polyps that dropped from the skeleton)? Is there a possibility of growing these out into new hammers perhaps, laying them in a tray of gravel under decent lighting perhaps?

On a nicer note, some eye candy...

Bytor Orange Zoos

A. secale - or Melev's Purple Monster.

Lavendar Frilly Mushrooms

The unknown coral again. I'm sure someone told me what it was called, but I forgot to note it anywhere.

And the Tyree frag.

NexDog · 04/29/2006, 06:01 AM

Shame about the Hammer. I want one but just can't get one. Not one online vendor in Japan has one in six moths except that monster one I posted in my thread a few months back ($1000).

gkarshens · 04/29/2006, 06:54 AM

That unknown coral looks like an Echnophylia to me, but it is hard to tell in the pic.

Lunchbucket · 04/29/2006, 09:37 AM

sorry to hear about the coral marc. just glad you didn't loose more or have a big wipe out

Lunchbucket

Electrobes · 04/29/2006, 10:36 AM

I am a bit confused when you say the polyp fell off.. do you mean the hammer tissue is stand alone from the skeleton?

I find it rare to see a hammer reattach to another skeleton or build its own. They usually die, get lost, etc before it can come back. Just being safe I would unfortunately just hope for the best in the Q tank and possibly get another hammer frag from a fellow reefer. Heck you know everyone and their mothers would give you one!

I am sorry to hear about your recent issues Marc, but as we always see in your tank it tends not to see the same issues again once they are over with.

melev · 04/29/2006, 11:43 AM

Losing any coral is aggravating. I got this hammer as a trade from another member over two years ago, and it grew nicely. At one point, I split it in half, and gave that to another member in exchange for my first sun coral that I still have now. I just checked on the remaining heads in the quarantine tank, and they look pretty good. They turned the water in the tank a bit cloudy overnight, but it already is looking more clear.

Btw, here's the same Hammer eating in February '06, at night:

The part about the polyp falling off is exactly that. I see three of four puddles of hammer coral tissue on the substrate in the reef. If there was some way to propagate from that tissue, I'd like to try it rather than wait for it to be consumed or die off. I was hoping someone might have a suggestion.

Electrobes · 04/29/2006, 12:56 PM

Man only thing I can think of is a petri dish (or larger like tupperware) with a single piece of bone/rock and netting on top of the container. You can't actually have anything tieing down the tissue... that would prob cause some infection. Best I can come up with..

melev · 04/29/2006, 01:34 PM

I was thinking a tray filled with rubble might work too.

melev · 04/29/2006, 01:41 PM

Here is what is left, the ones I fragged off. The q-tank was 83F again, so I put an icepack in there again.

04/27/2006, 05:41 AM	#226
Micki Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,163	Marc, how do tiger tails reproduce? I have had 2 of them for almost a year. You mentioned split? __________________ Micki... Western Ohio Reef Club Click the red house for my 125 progress! Current Tank Info: 125 gal. reef, 90 gal. sump, 10 gal. fuge, 40 gallon. 150 gallon fish only.

04/27/2006, 06:23 AM	#227
Stile2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yucaipa, California (some little town you've never heard of) Posts: 1,624	Sorry for the troubles. What do you mean by "RTNing"? Keith __________________ If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! Current Tank Info: 77 Gallon Custom peninsula 3 sides viewable, DIY Steel Stand, OM Squirt, 2 x 250 w MH, 2 x 95 w VHO, DIY Skimmer

04/27/2006, 07:07 AM	#228
NexDog Snail Killer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kyushu, Japan Posts: 4,804	Rapid Tissue Necrosis.... Marc, in relation to other incidents you've had in the past, do you think this latest batch of RTNs and other problems has a higher time to problem ratio? Just trying to work out if you think Prodibio is the cause as I'm sure you are.... __________________ Laurence Flynn 340g In-Wall Envision Tank and 150g Sump. Current Tank Info: Deltec 902, PFO hood with 3x400w Radium 20k and 4x96w PC's. Hammerhead closed loop - and 2 x Tunze 6105 (and Vortech still sucks).

04/27/2006, 11:42 AM	#230
Airman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 643	Question about something I saw in my tank last night. About a week ago notice little baby pepperment shrimp in my live rock. I have been looking at them every night because they are cool to look at and I want to see if they are going to make it. So far so good. Last night found hundreds of tiny transluscent shrimps swimming freely in the tank. I shutoff all of the pumps to better look because the flow was tossing them around. They are clear with white specks that reflect the light. They drawn to the LED flashlight I use to look at with. My pepperment shrimp and yellow clown goby enjoy eating them. They followed the light anywhere I moved it in the tank. My question is did I have a big birth of mysis pods? There was about two to three hundred easy. I did scoop some out and put them in my refugium where flow is a little slower. As anyone had this happen to them? __________________ What is man, that thou art mindful of him?...:) Current Tank Info: 55 Gal, DSB, protein skimmer, UV light, Sump/Refugium

04/27/2006, 12:39 PM	#231
thewuf Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rocky Mount, North Carolina Posts: 683	Marc - I had a similar situation with my Euphylia's dying one head at a time. After losing several colonies I figured "What the heck" took them out and dipped them in very cool RO water, and two small nudibranch guys fell out. Replaced the corals and they are doing fine ever since. Then I read that there is such a critter that eats euphylias. Just a thought. Chris __________________ I told her she had a sweet looking wrasse, and she SLAPPED me!! Go on, Click the little Red House! Current Tank Info: 150 Gal Reef Tank, OceansMotions 4-way, 45 Gal Sump, ASM G-4x, 3 250w MH

04/27/2006, 09:12 AM	#229
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Overall, everything is fine. I mention the few things that bother me because I'd like my reef to be 100% happy all the time. Odds are every one of us have one or two corals that aren't doing well while the rest are just fine, and we put all our attention on the few in hopes of getting them to rebound. An important facet to keep in mind is the combining of many different species in one contained water source. Running a good quality skimmer, using a DSB, filtering with lots of live rock, adding fresh carbon actively as well as running phosphate removers all help, but in nature, we just don't see the mixture of livestock that we tend to accumulate. We see it, it's pretty, we buy it, and then put it in a spot that doesn't touch its neighbor. Even under the best of circumstances, some stuff won't survive. If I had access to natural sea water and could change out the system daily with new water, odds are I could pull off what I wish. But I don't, and running a mixed reef with softies, SPS, and anemones as well as fish can be quite taxing. The frag I got from Zenya has looked amazing for months. Matter of fact, I posted a lovely picture of it from above about two months ago. Then one of those stupid mushrooms in my tank blossomed too close to it, so I had to move the frag. It could be the Prodibio products affected this coral, or it could be the residual sting of the mushroom, or it could be the move to a different spot (differing flow, differing lighting, differing neighbors) that caused this little guy to RTN on me. I hate that. Regarding cucumbers, they just pull themselves in two usually. I really like Tigertail cucumbers because they are interesting looking. I've seen others that just look plain and ugly, and I won't even get them for our monthly club raffle. I don't necessarily believe Prodibio has done anything in my tank yet, plus or minus. Today it is time to dose again, and I'm going to use Reef Booster for the first time as well.

04/27/2006, 07:20 PM	#232
cabbagehead Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Englewood Florida Posts: 326 Blog Entries: 2	Marc, Great thread!! I was listening to the podcasts on my way to work and I heard you mention you had a Phosban reactor. I was wondering what pump you are using with it? I think the only pumps I saw that were rated close to 100gph were RIOs. PLEASE keep up the good work with the podcasts. Thanks Jack

04/28/2006, 12:48 AM	#233
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Airman - You may be looking at baby peppermint shrimp in your tank. Try looking at this video: http://www.melevsreef.com/video/lil_angels.wmv & http://www.melevsreef.com/video/angels_of.wmv Chris - I'll try that. That would be surprising, but at least I'd know what had happened! Jack - Thanks. Btw, we aren't allowed to have URLs in our signature lines. The pump I use is a Maxijet. Phosban Reactors come with a ballvalve, so you can control the amount of water flowing into th e reactor. A Maxijet 600 is plenty.

04/28/2006, 08:26 AM	#234
Airman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 643	Yes that what I saw about two nights ago. Last night looked again but they are all gone I still have the little shrimps inside of the LR that is about two weeks old. After you shot the video was did your little shrimp disappear the next day? __________________ What is man, that thou art mindful of him?...:) Current Tank Info: 55 Gal, DSB, protein skimmer, UV light, Sump/Refugium

04/28/2006, 08:57 AM	#235
Spiffyguy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: St Charles, Mo Posts: 1,633	My Peppermint Shrimp larve last maybe one full day before they are blown into the over flow or the powerhead. I suspect they would run out of food before long. When mine hatch you I don't see the numbers melev does. I suspect the hatch is large but the MJ1200 in my tank takes them out fairly quick. The shrimps on your live rock may be Mysis. I have tons of those swimming around. __________________ Spiffyguy Ain't life spiffy!! Click the little red house to see my fish tank. "The cheese stands alone." Current Tank Info: 55 with in tank sump and TBS rock, Aquactinics TX5, Remora HOB oh my. 10 gallon AGA with custom overflow and Aquaclear HOB, Black sand rubble zone.

04/28/2006, 02:25 PM	#236
Airman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 643	I think and hoping that it is pepperment shrimp inside of the live rock. __________________ What is man, that thou art mindful of him?...:) Current Tank Info: 55 Gal, DSB, protein skimmer, UV light, Sump/Refugium

04/28/2006, 02:26 PM	#237
Airman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 643	I thinking and hoping that it is pepperment shrimp inside of the live rock. __________________ What is man, that thou art mindful of him?...:) Current Tank Info: 55 Gal, DSB, protein skimmer, UV light, Sump/Refugium

04/28/2006, 06:42 PM	#238
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Mine didn't live long. The rest of the reef ate them.

04/28/2006, 09:14 PM	#239
itstheantitang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 477	Wouldn't be much of a shrimp cocktail. __________________ Ignore the smoke and smile...

04/29/2006, 12:22 AM	#240
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Here's an interesting update, but no picture unfortunately. I saw my blood shrimp today, and I never, and I mean never, ever see it. It hides in the rockwork all the time, and even late night I just see its antennae waving until the flashlight hits its spot. The Copperband Butterfly was hovering next to it in the cave spot (center of the tank) and the Blood Shrimp was cleaning its gills. That was pretty cool to watch. It pulled the gills out quite far, almost uncomfortably, but the Copperband seemed to enjoy it.

04/29/2006, 12:27 AM	#241
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	Shrimp are very strange! I just added four cleaners to my tank yesterday, and was watching three of them work my sailfin tang over tonight. __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

04/29/2006, 03:30 AM	#242
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Here's that hammer. So an hour ago, I pulled it out and put it in a bowl of room temperature RO/DI water to see if I could spy some LPS eating nudibranchs. I'll tell you this, that coral stunk before I was able to submerge it. Several baby brittle starfish fell off of it, as did a collonista snail and some asterinas. But I didn't see any sign of predators. Where it was dying, it was dissolving, but I didn't see the tell-tale signs of brown jelly disease either. So next I grabbed my shears and the dremel, and cut off the last remaining heads. These were then put in my quarantine tank, and the water felt a tad warm. Oops. It was around 86F because today I didn't run the a/c and just let the outdoor air flow through the house. We've had lots of humidity and some rain, but the temperature was in the 70s. Looks like the MH heated up the fishroom enough to cook the q-tank a tad. So if any nudibranchs survived the ro/di dip, and then the surgical procedure, I think getting a 6 degree raise in temp should have scared them out of hiding. I don't know if the remaining polyps will survive, but I'm going to keep a positive attitude. I put some ice packs in the tank to cool the water. The temp of my reef was 80.5, so it was definitely a shocker. The rest of the skeleton was disposed of, instead of putting it in the sump or refugium. I didn't want the dying matter to add issues to the water quality. Does anyone have any idea what to do with hammer tissue (polyps that dropped from the skeleton)? Is there a possibility of growing these out into new hammers perhaps, laying them in a tray of gravel under decent lighting perhaps? On a nicer note, some eye candy... Bytor Orange Zoos A. secale - or Melev's Purple Monster. Lavendar Frilly Mushrooms The unknown coral again. I'm sure someone told me what it was called, but I forgot to note it anywhere. And the Tyree frag.

04/29/2006, 06:01 AM	#243
NexDog Snail Killer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kyushu, Japan Posts: 4,804	Shame about the Hammer. I want one but just can't get one. Not one online vendor in Japan has one in six moths except that monster one I posted in my thread a few months back ($1000). __________________ Laurence Flynn 340g In-Wall Envision Tank and 150g Sump. Current Tank Info: Deltec 902, PFO hood with 3x400w Radium 20k and 4x96w PC's. Hammerhead closed loop - and 2 x Tunze 6105 (and Vortech still sucks).

04/29/2006, 06:54 AM	#244
gkarshens Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 2,382	That unknown coral looks like an Echnophylia to me, but it is hard to tell in the pic. __________________ Gabriel It's about time!

04/29/2006, 09:37 AM	#245
Lunchbucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 12,924	sorry to hear about the coral marc. just glad you didn't loose more or have a big wipe out Lunchbucket __________________ Trying to lose weight by walking is like trying to bake a cake w/ a cigarette lighter - Lunchbucket - "Nancy-Boy Extraordinaire" - maxxII- Current Tank Info: 58gal Oceanic RR, 2x400w MH (20k XM and 10k XM), Deltec PF601 Ca Rx, Deltec AP701 skimmer, mag950 return, iwaki 55rlt w/ an Oceansmotions 4-way unit, Tunze 7300 and 6000 each w/ controller, fluidized po4 rx

04/29/2006, 10:36 AM	#246
Electrobes Montipora type guy Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 2,945	I am a bit confused when you say the polyp fell off.. do you mean the hammer tissue is stand alone from the skeleton? I find it rare to see a hammer reattach to another skeleton or build its own. They usually die, get lost, etc before it can come back. Just being safe I would unfortunately just hope for the best in the Q tank and possibly get another hammer frag from a fellow reefer. Heck you know everyone and their mothers would give you one! I am sorry to hear about your recent issues Marc, but as we always see in your tank it tends not to see the same issues again once they are over with. __________________ Christian Current Tank Info: 100G Half Cylinder

04/29/2006, 11:43 AM	#247
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Losing any coral is aggravating. I got this hammer as a trade from another member over two years ago, and it grew nicely. At one point, I split it in half, and gave that to another member in exchange for my first sun coral that I still have now. I just checked on the remaining heads in the quarantine tank, and they look pretty good. They turned the water in the tank a bit cloudy overnight, but it already is looking more clear. Btw, here's the same Hammer eating in February '06, at night: The part about the polyp falling off is exactly that. I see three of four puddles of hammer coral tissue on the substrate in the reef. If there was some way to propagate from that tissue, I'd like to try it rather than wait for it to be consumed or die off. I was hoping someone might have a suggestion. Last edited by melev; 04/29/2006 at 11:59 AM.

04/29/2006, 12:56 PM	#248
Electrobes Montipora type guy Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 2,945	Man only thing I can think of is a petri dish (or larger like tupperware) with a single piece of bone/rock and netting on top of the container. You can't actually have anything tieing down the tissue... that would prob cause some infection. Best I can come up with.. __________________ Christian Current Tank Info: 100G Half Cylinder

04/29/2006, 01:34 PM	#249
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I was thinking a tray filled with rubble might work too.

04/29/2006, 01:41 PM	#250
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Here is what is left, the ones I fragged off. The q-tank was 83F again, so I put an icepack in there again.