Bubble Master Skimmers more info wanted??? - Page 10

UCanDoIt · 10/22/2006, 10:39 PM

ATi should really consider a fix on that elbow and it is a easy fix to give it extra support or just switch out the a schedule 80 PVC elbow like everyone else is using. Not an expensive fix or a difficult one.

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
I've been looking at photos of the BM skimmers always from the other angle and just noticed this one from the reverse angle. Is anyone concerned about this connection? Looks like just acrylic tube glued to acrylic body. On other aquarium products, I've seen connections like this, crack or craze overtime. I'm no expert on acrylic dynamics, maybe an acrylic person can comment. I would think that it's not hard to replace with a schedule 80 elbow so it has solid support on both sides or at least an extra layer of acrylic support for peace of mind.

Waxxiemann · 10/22/2006, 10:39 PM

thats the part we were worrying about. figures. I think that would knock it off the list for my next tank. oh well.

Waxxiemann · 10/22/2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
ATi should really consider a fix on that elbow and it is a easy fix to give it extra support or just switch out the a schedule 80 PVC elbow like everyone else is using. Not an expensive fix or a difficult one.

I don't know why they went with acrylic (or plexi) there either they totally should have used SCH 80s .

UCanDoIt · 10/22/2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Waxxiemann
thats the part we were worrying about. figures. I think that would knock it off the list for my next tank. oh well.

I don't think it should be eliminated yet, unless the skimmer doesn't perform. This is an easy adjustment for ATi, I would think. There's too much potential on this skimmer to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mchava · 10/22/2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jman77
bad news ....someone already had the return neck break on them ,,,,,, check it out ..

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/attachm...5&d=1161542382
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/attachm...4&d=1161542382

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthr...t=6552&page=15

I read the whole tread on the zeo forum and looking at the pictures I dont think the neck broke on its own but was broken by either dropping it or trying to modified. I am no acrylic expert but they only whay that tube will brake that way it by taking some kind of abuse. If the return neck failed it would be on the glued joint and in this case it was the tube it self. I dont know but I have only heard of one person having this issue. Iam still waiting to get mine so I can realy comment on it. I was alittle late to ask the person what thickness the tube was before they closed that tread becuase of a few people there.

. Oh well I hope mine comes in soon.

Waxxiemann · 10/22/2006, 11:16 PM

true, maybe it was the result of abuse.

Waxxiemann · 10/22/2006, 11:17 PM

it certainly won't break with normal use if you ask me.

Creetin · 10/23/2006, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mchava
I read the whole tread on the zeo forum and looking at the pictures I dont think the neck broke on its own but was broken by either dropping it or trying to modified. I am no acrylic expert but they only whay that tube will brake that way it by taking some kind of abuse. If the return neck failed it would be on the glued joint and in this case it was the tube it self. I dont know but I have only heard of one person having this issue. Iam still waiting to get mine so I can realy comment on it. I was alittle late to ask the person what thickness the tube was before they closed that tread becuase of a few people there.. Oh well I hope mine comes in soon.

I agree with what ya said 100%, AND WE should not let this thread go in that fashon. Untill us that did order them get them and test them, Then theres nothing i would put much thought into.

Roland Jacques · 10/23/2006, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherm71tank
You had my hopes up for second! Talk about a let down. Looking forward to seeing some of these in action myself.

Me too.

I cant believe another Bubble Master thread was closed. its got to be some kind of record is that 3 or 4 now?

That outlet tube does look like a week point. But it certainly did not break at the stress points. It looks like a leverage point break to me, pressure at the top, and the break point was pushing up against something. it looks like that outlet tube could use a extra support bracket mounted to the body. but IMO everything can be improved.

Roland Jacques · 10/23/2006, 06:55 AM

He was kind of lucky it broke were it did and not break the body. if the outlet tube was thicker acrylic, who knows. Im sure it he had a fair amount of pressure on it to break it like that.

You would think the cup removal should not be that hard but we will see. I have read it requires 2 hands so it probably a little tricky.

I just looked at the photo above, and it looks kind of clear to me. The wing nut/screw, the more you tighten that the more stress that area can have. It looks like the stress could be very consentrated. In that case it would not take that much pressure to break it. It is possable that even over tightening the screw alone could break it. (if it did not strip first)

brad23 · 10/23/2006, 07:52 AM

I wouldn't count this skimmer out just because one person broke it.

brad23 · 10/23/2006, 08:03 AM

I don't know if anyone noticed but the guy who broke his lives in Singapore where the BM has been out for a while.

Creetin · 10/23/2006, 08:25 AM

I just looked at the photo above, and it looks kind of clear to me. The wing nut/screw, the more you tighten that the more stress that area can have. It looks like the stress could be very consentrated. In that case it would not take that much pressure to break it. It is possable that even over tightening the screw alone could break it. (if it did not strip first)

Its drilled thru the pvc isnt it? If so it would put the pressure there first wouldnt it? If enough pressure to create a break on the acryllic thru the pvc it would be alot, woudnt it be?
I think the plastic wing nut assembly would fail before that could happen.JMO I hope to have mne SOON so i could look deeper at it.
Its not swaying my opinion about the skimmer. I wont hold punches either when i recieve it. If its a bad design i will post about it, But i will give credit when it is due too.
It looks to be a good design from what i can see, Maybe a detail or 2 could be worked out, But all in all it looks to be a good design.

I will repost this, But since greg at reefgeek is bringing it in that does bring my confidence up. My only concern was the old pumps problem with US voltage. Since tunze has accepted it, and its working for them is another vote of confidence.

Creetin · 10/23/2006, 08:39 AM

Opps double post

ridetheducati · 10/23/2006, 08:44 AM

I have been following the zeo thread from the beginning, too bad it is closed, a lot of good info there.

Charlie Davidson · 10/23/2006, 10:56 AM

tag

lvpd186 · 10/23/2006, 11:38 AM

I would find it hard to believe that a plastic wing-nut could break acrylic like that. You would think the wing-nut would break first, or worst case crack the acrylic, not break it off like that. IMO it looks like the person tried to pick it up by the output by force and it broke. BTW I am glad to see that the tube does have a small reinforcement on it (the small piece of acrylic that bonds it to the main body of the skimmer).

seaturtle1255 · 10/23/2006, 12:02 PM

I skimmed through the thread but did not see an answer to this. I've heard that ATI has patented their threadwheel design. Is this true? If so, can anyone point me to a patent number? I'd like to see just what they've patented and how solid the patent is, particularly in the US.

UCanDoIt · 10/23/2006, 12:25 PM

I know that in order to avoid the return pipe breaking, we probably shouldn't lift the unit up by it when doing our 6 months or annual cleaning.

I just did a first cleaning on my Deltec skimmer and it is really hard to get the skimmer out of my sump w/o picking it up with one hand on the return pipe and the other on the open skimmer body (my collection cup off). There's no grip on the outside of the skimmer body. And it's heavy as the water doesn't empty out too quickly.

I think this is good feedback for ATi to consider taking a closer look on how they can re-enforce the return pipe and connection.

CSS Reef · 10/23/2006, 01:54 PM

All it seems to need is a PVC or acrylic gusset under the elbow like the ones under the H&S pumps. This will keep it from cracking...

lvpd186 · 10/23/2006, 02:23 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't the piece of acrylic that is between the out-put and the body of the skimmer make it fairly strong and keep the joint from having pressure on it? You can see it in this pic.

tacocat · 10/23/2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lvpd186
Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't the piece of acrylic that is between the out-put and the body of the skimmer make it fairly strong and keep the joint from having pressure on it? You can see it in this pic.

I saw that, and I wouldn't worry about it. ASM skimmers are made from cooked pasta, and if they can take daily abuse, these skimmers can as well.

ridetheducati · 10/23/2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

I saw that, and I wouldn't worry about it. ASM skimmers are made from cooked pasta, and if they can take daily abuse, these skimmers can as well.

I resemble that comment.

Charlie Davidson · 10/23/2006, 03:26 PM

orientalexpress · 10/23/2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

I saw that, and I wouldn't worry about it. ASM skimmers are made from cooked pasta, and if they can take daily abuse, these skimmers can as well

Now that funny.

lapsan

10/22/2006, 10:39 PM	#227
Waxxiemann Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,364	thats the part we were worrying about. figures. I think that would knock it off the list for my next tank. oh well. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

10/22/2006, 11:16 PM	#231
Waxxiemann Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,364	true, maybe it was the result of abuse. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

10/22/2006, 11:17 PM	#232
Waxxiemann Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,364	it certainly won't break with normal use if you ask me. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

10/23/2006, 06:55 AM	#235
Roland Jacques Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,848	He was kind of lucky it broke were it did and not break the body. if the outlet tube was thicker acrylic, who knows. Im sure it he had a fair amount of pressure on it to break it like that. You would think the cup removal should not be that hard but we will see. I have read it requires 2 hands so it probably a little tricky. I just looked at the photo above, and it looks kind of clear to me. The wing nut/screw, the more you tighten that the more stress that area can have. It looks like the stress could be very consentrated. In that case it would not take that much pressure to break it. It is possable that even over tightening the screw alone could break it. (if it did not strip first) __________________ Roland Last edited by Roland Jacques; 10/23/2006 at 07:29 AM.

10/23/2006, 07:52 AM	#236
brad23 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bloomington IL Posts: 2,959	I wouldn't count this skimmer out just because one person broke it. __________________ Ye old English Current Tank Info: 75g reef

10/23/2006, 08:03 AM	#237
brad23 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bloomington IL Posts: 2,959	I don't know if anyone noticed but the guy who broke his lives in Singapore where the BM has been out for a while. __________________ Ye old English Current Tank Info: 75g reef

10/23/2006, 08:25 AM	#238
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	I just looked at the photo above, and it looks kind of clear to me. The wing nut/screw, the more you tighten that the more stress that area can have. It looks like the stress could be very consentrated. In that case it would not take that much pressure to break it. It is possable that even over tightening the screw alone could break it. (if it did not strip first) Its drilled thru the pvc isnt it? If so it would put the pressure there first wouldnt it? If enough pressure to create a break on the acryllic thru the pvc it would be alot, woudnt it be? I think the plastic wing nut assembly would fail before that could happen.JMO I hope to have mne SOON so i could look deeper at it. Its not swaying my opinion about the skimmer. I wont hold punches either when i recieve it. If its a bad design i will post about it, But i will give credit when it is due too. It looks to be a good design from what i can see, Maybe a detail or 2 could be worked out, But all in all it looks to be a good design. I will repost this, But since greg at reefgeek is bringing it in that does bring my confidence up. My only concern was the old pumps problem with US voltage. Since tunze has accepted it, and its working for them is another vote of confidence. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep Last edited by Creetin; 10/23/2006 at 08:40 AM.

10/23/2006, 08:39 AM	#239
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Opps double post __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

10/23/2006, 08:44 AM	#240
ridetheducati 20 and Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Bowie, MD Posts: 2,968	I have been following the zeo thread from the beginning, too bad it is closed, a lot of good info there. __________________ "Send more paramedics" Current Tank Info: 300g DD, SPS dominated, Apex, Tunze 6125s, ATB 1050, 400w MH, and Geo 618 Ca Reactor

10/23/2006, 10:56 AM	#241
Charlie Davidson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Deltaville , Va Posts: 10,977	tag __________________ Richmond Reef Club Current Tank Info: Doing without for a while :)

10/23/2006, 11:38 AM	#242
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	I would find it hard to believe that a plastic wing-nut could break acrylic like that. You would think the wing-nut would break first, or worst case crack the acrylic, not break it off like that. IMO it looks like the person tried to pick it up by the output by force and it broke. BTW I am glad to see that the tube does have a small reinforcement on it (the small piece of acrylic that bonds it to the main body of the skimmer). __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

10/23/2006, 12:02 PM	#243
seaturtle1255 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dallas Posts: 9	I skimmed through the thread but did not see an answer to this. I've heard that ATI has patented their threadwheel design. Is this true? If so, can anyone point me to a patent number? I'd like to see just what they've patented and how solid the patent is, particularly in the US.

10/23/2006, 12:25 PM	#244
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	I know that in order to avoid the return pipe breaking, we probably shouldn't lift the unit up by it when doing our 6 months or annual cleaning. I just did a first cleaning on my Deltec skimmer and it is really hard to get the skimmer out of my sump w/o picking it up with one hand on the return pipe and the other on the open skimmer body (my collection cup off). There's no grip on the outside of the skimmer body. And it's heavy as the water doesn't empty out too quickly. I think this is good feedback for ATi to consider taking a closer look on how they can re-enforce the return pipe and connection.

10/23/2006, 01:54 PM	#245
CSS Reef Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 595	All it seems to need is a PVC or acrylic gusset under the elbow like the ones under the H&S pumps. This will keep it from cracking...

10/23/2006, 02:23 PM	#246
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't the piece of acrylic that is between the out-put and the body of the skimmer make it fairly strong and keep the joint from having pressure on it? You can see it in this pic. __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

10/23/2006, 03:26 PM	#249
Charlie Davidson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Deltaville , Va Posts: 10,977	__________________ Richmond Reef Club Current Tank Info: Doing without for a while :)