Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by pskelton

An unplanned experiment...

While attempting to get the dishes done, the kids in bed, and the algae screen scraped, I made a mistake. I forgot to plug the scrubber pump back in after cleaning and I baked my screen good and dry under the lights for about 24 hours. Now for the experiment, I have never been able to grow green algae on my screen. The tank had sky high nitrate when I first started the scrubber and even after nitrate finally went to 0 ppm the algae was still the thick black stuff. It will be interesting to see if the algae on the screen changes while the screen restarts....

ouch! Not the first time I've heard of this happening if it helps. I have a fish get stuck on the intake pump and cut off 95% of the flow and lost 1/2 the screen 3 months ago. It took 3 months for the 'dead' part of the screen to really come back to full strength, because the surviving part of the screen basically did the majority of the filtering (and grew dark) and prevented the rest of the screen from coming back as fast. At least that's what I figured out.

If you have always had dark/black algae, even with low nutrients, you may have to up your lighting. Keep us posted.

[scolley]

I've kept quite on this thread for a while, so will provide a brief update...

Started my little LED driven ATO 4 to 5 months ago. Its covered with nice green hair algae that I remove 1/2 of each week. I don't even bother to check NO3 or PO4. There's only so many times you can get Salifert to say "Zero" before you decide you are wasting tests.

Though I scrape a ton of algae off my mat each weekend, my skimmer still pulls stinky grundu out of the water at about the same rate as before I set up my ATO. So my opinion remains that believing ATOs eliminate the need for a skimmer is a bunch of hokum.

There was never much algae in my tank before my little ATO. Pretty much a wee bit to be scrubbed off the glass each week. Now I go weeks without scraping glass, and then all I scrape off is coraline dust.

I'm really a planted tank guy, and know enough to know that the algae I clean off my matt every week is composed of CO2 from the ambient air, potassium in the water, and nitrates and phosphates in the same. And I'm thrilled to be pulling that N and P from my water column. I'm building a replacement tank now, and the ATS is definitely coming with it, and I'm retiring my DSB.

My only regret is that it is NOISY. Not right after cleaning, then it is quiet. But within a day or two the PVC begins to clog with algae, and flow is impared in some areas, and the flow increases in other spots and it gets loud. But I plan on installing a light shield that will keep light off the area where water exits the PVC. I'm pretty sure that will eliminate that problem.

IMO this is a spectacular addition to my filtration. Many thanks to all supporting this thread, and wonderful, natural filtration method!

Happy to provide pics for any doubting Thomas's.

[mrbncal]

^^^^

My name is not Thomas but I'd love to see some pics . . .

[scolley]

Originally Posted by mrbncal

^^^^

My name is not Thomas but I'd love to see some pics . . .

Sure - Whatever the name. I'll snap a few when I clean it this weekend. I've got a really crowded sump, where it's installed, so I'll have to take the mat and splash guard out so you can see them better. But it's easy to explain now...

The whole thing sits it my sump. The mat is about 6" wide, and I only have water running down one side, because I only have room to light one side. And its powered by my return, so I don't want to waste flow. The water that could be flowing down an unlit side is better used returning to my tank. The mar is shoved up into your traditional piece of PVC tubing with a slit carved out. But the mat is permanently attached to the PVC to keep the water coming only out of one side. The unlit side has a bead of silicone adhering the mat to the PVC, preventing water from coming out that side. The PVC is attached to a union that I can unscrew to remove the mat/pvc combo for cleaning.

I light the mat with a 9 star mount LEDs on a heatsink, primarily 3 watt Crees, with a couple of reds mixed in. That light is hung on the back of a stand door. So with the door closed it points toward the back of the stand, that it would illuminate if the mat weren't 5" or so in front of it. And to protect the LEDs from splashing of the ATO, I've created a simple, clear acrylic splash guard that hangs from hooks at the top of my stand, and is between the mat and the LEDs.

Pics will make it more clear. I'll do an FTS also, just so you can see, that while my tank is pretty humble at the moment, it is - at least - free of even a spec of nuisance algae.

[calvin415]

Haven't post any updates in a few months, but that's because I haven't touched my tank in over 2 months. I did a water change the other day, cleaned off the coraline and figured I'd take a few pics... For a testimony of how well the ATS is working for me, I went 2 months without touching my tank including cleaning the glass, I had more pink than green/brown on my glass! As for my skimmer, after not cleaning it for 2 months I only had about a cup of tea colored water, that's about it. ATS took care of the rest!







If anyone is not familiar with my ATS Setup, I use a 7x7 screen lit from one side 24/7 on my 18g ADA 60-P. Here are a couple setup shots:





Typical results:

[Floyd R Turbo]

Calvin, great setup, thanks for sharing the success story! I do miss your super long tank though.

I was going to say that you shouldn't run the scrubber light 24/7, but hey, it works for you. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else - still need down time. Have you tried running it 18 on / 6 off?

[calvin415]

I haven't, only because I didn't have another extension cord and timer, and after 6 months, I figure if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[1Sik1500]

Thats a good setup. It looks very simple which i like. How do you feel about the excess light showing in your stand? that is a concern of mine. I would like to cut down on the amount of excess stand light.

[calvin415]

It is in my basement so I don't really see it. As it is, you can only see the light spill through the cracks at night. If I was really concerned, I would consider turning the light onto a light cycle that has it off when it bugs me, or I could work on sealing the doors better.

[SPotter]

I can only dream of growth like that. I'm 2.5 months in and not getting anything like that. My nitrates are 0 and phosphates have been steady at .0125 so I shouldnt complain but I would still love to see some growth like that. I am not totally convinced LED's is the way to go anymore.

[redneckgearhead]

Originally Posted by SPotter

I can only dream of growth like that. I'm 2.5 months in and not getting anything like that. My nitrates are 0 and phosphates have been steady at .0125 so I shouldnt complain but I would still love to see some growth like that. I am not totally convinced LED's is the way to go anymore.

Don't blame your LED's yet. I have the CFL's and am struggling to get growth even close to that.

[JohnnyB in SD]

I had good success with CFL's but too much heat. Am struggling to get my T5s to produce in the new unit I built a month ago. Went from green growth almost like Calvins with the CFls to black snotty goop and detectable nitrates. Kinda freakin out.
Moved the T5s as close to screen as possible and upgraded the ballasts per Floyd's suggestion. Early indications are his advice is the correction I needed.
Here are pics of ATS v2.0 before I modded the lights.

[sharkman121]

Hey guys, i got a whole lot of info from this thread so i got a few stuff in preparation to begin my own ATS.



i really roughed up that screen, so much so that it tore a couple times in the process.

i have 4 x 26 watt cfls 2700k cool temp bulbs

the screen is a 13" x 11" and the tank is 130 gallons


Here's a quick photo of the sump area its supposed to go in. I decided not to attempt any clean up at all for the photo since its usually this untidy 75% of the time



i have a maxi jet 600 which i plan to use for flow.

im not totally sure how i plan to do the design as yes, i actually have two screens so i have the option for going with a double screen if the wattage would suffice.

Any input from you guys would be appreciated.

[sharkman121]

Pic of tank that has become grown with algae from high nitrates and phosphates. I guess this can serve somewhat as a "before" pic as im confident that the ATS would correct my parameters.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You want warm white lamps, 2700-3000K preferably. Cool white will work, but not as well

[SPotter]

So I am kicking around two different filtration system ideas for my 280 build that I will be starting very soon. One idea is to use rubbermaid stock tanks and the other is to have a custom acrylic system made. With this I would create a compartment for the scrubber and wanted to get everyone's feed back to see what problems you think I might run into.

sump.jpg

If I go this route, I would more than likely go back to using clip on cfl's for my lighting and I would build an acrylic box similar to Floyd's box with two bulkheads that would drain into the scrubber area.

Thanks and I am looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

[Nammy]

Done, that was allot of reading!

[JohnnyB in SD]

Originally Posted by sharkman121

Hey guys, i got a whole lot of info from this thread so i got a few stuff in preparation to begin my own ATS.

i have 4 x 26 watt cfls 2700k cool temp bulbs

the screen is a 13" x 11" and the tank is 130 gallons

i have a maxi jet 600 which i plan to use for flow.

im not totally sure how i plan to do the design as yes, i actually have two screens so i have the option for going with a double screen if the wattage would suffice.

Any input from you guys would be appreciated.

13" needs 455gph.
You could use a Maxi 600 to get started but you'll probably find it won't be enough flow for the long term by the time you factor in head pressure.
No way to feed your screen with overflow / gravity and not have to use a pump?

[Floyd R Turbo]

SPotter, it would probably be a lot simpler to make baffles from front to back and make everything flow from one side to the other (much easier to build = less labor = less $/time). Otherwise it becomes a complicated build. Also I don't really see much of a reason to separated the ATS from the main sump compartment. Why not make the first compartment the fuge, second compartment the filter sock/probe/scrubber compartment, then up/downs, then the return? Also if you are running external pumps the return section can be pretty small.

Just some food for thought.

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

SPotter, it would probably be a lot simpler to make baffles from front to back and make everything flow from one side to the other (much easier to build = less labor = less $/time). Otherwise it becomes a complicated build. Also I don't really see much of a reason to separated the ATS from the main sump compartment. Why not make the first compartment the fuge, second compartment the filter sock/probe/scrubber compartment, then up/downs, then the return? Also if you are running external pumps the return section can be pretty small.

Just some food for thought.

Excellent suggestions....let me play around with that. I would not be the one building this so ease, time and labor is not so much of a concern however $$$ is. I already got a quote for the layout I posted and its about twice as much as using stock tanks.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yep, acrylic is nice because you can custom build just about anything, but taking a stock tank and buying glass at True Value and siliconing it in place is way cheaper. I guess I should say it's a lot cheaper than something acrylic built correctly.

[SPotter]

correctly being the operative word and thats what is weighing on me with this decision. While I have gotten better with DIY projects, I also know my limitations and given the size of this project there becomes a time when you need to step aside and let the people who know what they are doing do what they do best.

[JohnnyB in SD]

Originally Posted by SPotter

So I am kicking around two different filtration system ideas for my 280 build that I will be starting very soon. One idea is to use rubbermaid stock tanks and the other is to have a custom acrylic system made. With this I would create a compartment for the scrubber and wanted to get everyone's feed back to see what problems you think I might run into.

Attachment 164679

If I go this route, I would more than likely go back to using clip on cfl's for my lighting and I would build an acrylic box similar to Floyd's box with two bulkheads that would drain into the scrubber area.

Thanks and I am looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

How you going to feed water to the screen either way you go? Always a good idea to use overflow when feasible instead of adding a pump.

How are you draining your current box? I'm having issues trying to get my 1" bulkheads to be quiet in a box like Floyds, and they're only handling 300gph or so each into a tank 5" below them. It's not easy trying to make silent drains in the limited space of an ATS screen chamber. I'm considering an open bottom with screen hanging directly into the fuge to help support a pod population.

Don't think the LEDs are going to work out well long term? Adaptable light mounting is a feature I will incorporate so I can use whichever method is most favorable. So far CFLs have been the most effective but the jury's still out on T5s. I was hoping you'd have LEDs all figured out by the time I get around to next build.
I think Floyds central box with more or less open sides would be a good design if you don't have to be too concerned with light scatter. And light from the ATS over a fuge could be a good thing.
Is your filtration system going into a basement or garage instead of in a stand under tank? Makes it easier to go higher with the ATS over the fuge instead of taking up ground floor real estate.

Just some thoughts I've been thinking since I'm going to be doing a larger build too.

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB in SD

How you going to feed water to the screen either way you go? Always a good idea to use overflow when feasible instead of adding a pump.

How are you draining your current box? I'm having issues trying to get my 1" bulkheads to be quiet in a box like Floyds, and they're only handling 300gph or so each into a tank 5" below them. It's not easy trying to make silent drains in the limited space of an ATS screen chamber. I'm considering an open bottom with screen hanging directly into the fuge to help support a pod population.

Don't think the LEDs are going to work out well long term? Adaptable light mounting is a feature I will incorporate so I can use whichever method is most favorable. So far CFLs have been the most effective but the jury's still out on T5s. I was hoping you'd have LEDs all figured out by the time I get around to next build.
I think Floyds central box with more or less open sides would be a good design if you don't have to be too concerned with light scatter. And light from the ATS over a fuge could be a good thing.
Is your filtration system going into a basement or garage instead of in a stand under tank? Makes it easier to go higher with the ATS over the fuge instead of taking up ground floor real estate.

Just some thoughts I've been thinking since I'm going to be doing a larger build too.

I will feed the screen from one of the overflow lines. The new tank will have two external overflow boxes and each box will have 2 1.5" drains in it. I am hoping that one drain line will give me the flow I need for the screen.

My current box is open under the screen so the water just drops right into the fuge. This does cause a lot of micro bubles that flow into the return section.

The new tank will be in the basement and everything will be located directly behind the tank on the other side of the wall where the basement is unfinished so light spill wont be an issue. I think LED's will work fine but I am thinking that it will take a lot of them to produce the same growth that cfl's and t5's are producing. Given what this project is going to cost me, I am leaning towards two cfl's on each side of the screen but who knows. I usually end up saying..."I've spent this much already what's another $$$$ at this point" which becomes very dangerous. Hopefully Floyd will have some data on his led project by the time I am ready to add ATS lights. Right now I probably wont have the tank running until late january as the contract that is remodeling my basement has run into some delays on his current job.

[JohnnyB in SD]

You should check out BeanAnimals with Calfo overflows if you haven't gone too far with the corners.

My current box is open under the screen so the water just drops right into the fuge. This does cause a lot of micro bubles that flow into the return section.

Bubble trap after the fuge before it hits the return section will get rid of the micro bubbles. I wouldn't have a problem with bubbles in my fuge, even big ones.
Any other downsides?

Given what this project is going to cost me, I am leaning towards two cfl's on each side of the screen but who knows. I usually end up saying..."I've spent this much already what's another $$$$ at this point" which becomes very dangerous.

Yeah, I hear ya on the "what's another $$$$ at this point" .
But electric costs are a significant long term consideration for a large ATS, at least in my part of the country. $0.33 / kwh for top tier rate, which is what I consider the tank cause it isn't a necessity. That's before California throws on their BS fees to push it closer to $.40. Factor in bulb replacement costs and LEDs become a no brainer - if they are effective.
But that's why I'm saying set it up to be flexible with the lighting option. You/I might start with CFLs, but down the road LEDs will be to the point where they'd be a better & inexpensive option. Don't want to reinvent the whole ATS to switch lighting or you're back to "another $$$$ at this point".
I wish there were something we could do to help Floyd, last I heard he was buried in normal life activities.

I probably wont have the tank running until late january

I'm projecting March for my tank & I don't have any contractors involved. We're probably both over optimistic
What's the saying - only bad things happen fast with a reef tank?