Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

[netsequent]

The same relationship between oxygen and alkalinity is true.
Holmes-Farley, R. (2004). Low pH: Causes and Cures. In Reef Alchemy: Reefkeeping Magazine. Retrieved from http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by netsequent

These tests seem to lack any accounting for oxygen? There are relationships between dissolved oxygen and Ph. Shouldn't DO be held constant across these tests?

Measuring O2, CO2, and pH must be at point of collection within minutes. After that the gasses and pH in a sample will not be as that when it was collected. Also because pH is so dependent on the levels of CO2 which is outside the control of the salt mix makes it virtually a useless tool for comparison.


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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by netsequent

The same relationship between oxygen and alkalinity is true.
Holmes-Farley, R. (2004). Low pH: Causes and Cures. In Reef Alchemy: Reefkeeping Magazine. Retrieved from http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

It's CO2 driven. Alkalinity (loose term) will help buffer the pH levels and if a source that will increase the alkalinity level will temporarily increase the pH until pH is driven back down by CO2.

O doesn't directly influence pH.

[bertoni]

Originally Posted by netsequent

These tests seem to lack any accounting for oxygen? There are relationships between dissolved oxygen and Ph. Shouldn't DO be held constant across these tests?

There isn't any practical correlation between DO and pH in our tanks. Most tanks (and water samples) will be at full saturation after a bit of aeration, in any case.

[netsequent]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Most tanks (and water samples) will be at full saturation after a bit of aeration, in any case.

My concern here is that when we're starting to use these tests to compare vendor salt mix, the RO/DI water mix is not at full saturation, nor has it been run through a protein skimmer for days. But, certainly a useful test as intended. I personally still hold the opinion DO, Salinity, and temperature would need to be held constant for a fair comparison.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by netsequent

My concern here is that when we're starting to use these tests to compare vendor salt mix, the RO/DI water mix is not at full saturation, nor has it been run through a protein skimmer for days. But, certainly a useful test as intended. I personally still hold the opinion DO, Salinity, and temperature would need to be held constant for a fair comparison.

But if it's in your system with a skimmer, carbon, life, organics, etc. Then it's not new saltmix. This thread is about getting a general idea of what to expect when mixing up a new saltmix and before it's added to the tank.

[bertoni]

Well, DO does not affect the pH level in our systems. I'm more concerned about carbon dioxide equilibration, which definitely can make a difference.

[NY_Caveman]

Not to hijack but since everyone here seems experienced with salts I have a quick related question. My experience seems to show the average reefer keeps alkalinity around 8.3 dkh (natural sea water level) but some of the widely used salt brands have alkalinity as high as 11 dkh with few salt mixes around 8-8.5 dkh. Am I missing something? This seems askew to me.

[bertoni]

To Reef Central

The parameters in our salt products give people trouble in various ways. There are some lower-alkalinity products, and it's possible to reduce the alkalinity in a salt mix by dosing a mineral acid. Also, backing off on the alkalinity supplementation after a water change will keep the alkalinity from rising.

[homer1475]

Over the course of 5 200G boxes of regular IO I average these numbers:

Alk 9.9 - pretty much dead on this number every batch.
Cal 400
Mag 1250

Calibrated refractomter(35ppt solution) @ 1.026
78 F
All tests done with salifert.

[James404]

Started my new tank with Fritz RPM after hearing some good things on here. Just tested alk and it came back at 10 via Red Sea Titration.

Disappointed since I was hoping it to be 8-8.5 or less. I'll double check with Salifert when I get a new kit, but probably will switch to TMPR after the box is done.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by James404

Started my new tank with Fritz RPM after hearing some good things on here. Just tested alk and it came back at 10 via Red Sea Titration.

Disappointed since I was hoping it to be 8-8.5 or less. I'll double check with Salifert when I get a new kit, but probably will switch to TMPR after the box is done.

This is becoming very common with Fritz. Their parameters are all over the place.

[mav3rick478]

Had anyone gotten their hands on the Live Aquaria salt?

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[Psyops]

The parameters in our salt products give people trouble in various ways. There are some lower-alkalinity products, and it's possible to reduce the alkalinity in a salt mix by dosing a mineral acid. Also, backing off on the alkalinity supplementation after a water change will keep the alkalinity from rising.[/QUOTE]

Just retired from active duty and getting back into this great hobby. Can you give me a link or maybe elaborate on the mineral acid dosing? Reason I ask this is that my 5 year old put a soap bar in my sump. So I started to do large water changes witch spiked my alk from 8.3 or so to near 11. Killed a couple of montis. Do you recommend mineral acid dosing when you have to alter alk with large water changes in emergency situations? Sorry don't want to deter from the main topic.

Alex

[bertoni]

Dosing water for changes with a mineral acid is fine if you watch the pH and aerate the water sufficiently before adding it to the tank. The pH should bounce back up fairly quickly, but if you are making large water changes, I think it's worth making sure that the pH is acceptable when the change is done.

[MuShu]

Switched to a new box of Fritz RPM, and my alk is now testing at 6.1! It used to be spot on 8.3. I'll be switching back to IO.

[bertoni]

Salt products seem to go through bad batches. Have you tried mixing up the dry salt? Sometimes, they settle badly during shipment.

[MuShu]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Salt products seem to go through bad batches. Have you tried mixing up the dry salt? Sometimes, they settle badly during shipment.

That's my plan when I mix up my next batch of water. I just discovered the alk issue Monday. I only test once every month or two since my parameters have always been spot on.

[bertoni]

Well, I hope your salt does better with some mixing. Sigh!

[MuShu]

If not, well, that's the whole reason why I had supplements to dose despite my perfect parameters. Always be prepared in this hobby!

[DesertReefT4r]

Only salt mixes I liked and mixed up consistantly during the time I used them are TMPR, HW Marine and Reefer, DDH2ocean and Coralife. I used all these as well IO, RC, Kent, RSCP, Red Sea Marine, Brightwells NeoMarine, Oceanic, and all had one type of iusse or another that I did not like. Well Oceanic was ok just always too much cal.

[Phixman]

Instant ocean reef crystals, used Salifer for all 3 tests.

430 ppm- Calc
10.9 dkh- Alk
1095 ppm- Mag

[droog]

I've been having problems with my salt mix recently, so came back to this super useful thread.

If the OP has the latest version of the data as an excel or .csv file, that would be a very useful resource, I would certainly like to download.

Also, for salts that have multiple readings, I think it would be good to list the mean and std for the Alk/Ca/Mg parameters. I'm beginning to think that the salt with the lowest standard deviation in results is likely to be better in the long run than the particular values of the parameters themselves. Happy to add these columns if the data is available.

-droog

[bertoni]

I don't think anyone has made a CSV file of the data.

[lickweed]

has anyone tried using revoreef marine salts?