Octopus Skimmer Mods - Page 11

JCTewks · 03/28/2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua1023
Just a coulple of questions as this is something I think I could do. It also makes sense to get more air from a larger volute as per Pimp my Pump from Hahnmeister.

Did you get any sense that your volute cover could possibly be hollow inside? Mine is almost 3/8" thick. If its not hollow there is alot of room to play with.

Did you do anything to increase the inside diameter of your volute? If so, what exactly?

What did you use to grind down the volute cover? How well did that tool work for you?

on the OTP1000 pump, I was only able tp remove about 1/16" from the cover. I removed the lip on the inside of the volute...around the outer edge...making it about 1/4" bigger overal diameter. I used a sanding drum on a Dremel...worked great...about 10 minutes to do. the camera isn't working right now or I'd give you pictures.

To Everyone asking about max air!! .....my DNW 110 with an 18" neck extension will pull 20+ SCFH but it is dialed back to 17-18SCFH to perform best and not overflow the cup constantly.

Rich Conley has a NW 200 modded to pull 60SCFH and has it dialed back to 45 SCFH max air intake. I am not sure what the max air on a 150 would be...i'd say split the 110, and 200...about 31SCFH.

humbugy · 03/28/2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by humbugy
i had to mod the paddle wheel, anybody know the diameter of the needle wheel off hand? (or wanna look )

i have the external 200, with the otp 3000

hahnmeister · 03/28/2007, 11:53 PM

"Rich Conley has a NW 200 modded to pull 60SCFH and has it dialed back to 45 SCFH max air intake."

Has this been verified? I mean, just because sometimes your meter 'pegs' a certain number on the meter doesnt mean its drawing that much if its bobbing up and down in the process. Also, what is the wattage on the pump at 45scfh? It may be too much to sustain safely.

Sorry to be skeptic, but you know how rumors can fly around here like mad and get taken as truth just because enough people repeat it.

JCTewks · 03/29/2007, 01:53 AM

i will see if I can find the post...it is somewhere in this thread...

JCTewks · 03/29/2007, 02:11 AM

Hahnmeister: try these links

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&pagenumber=25

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&pagenumber=28

i can only take his word for without pictures...it would be nice to know if he ever got a larger air meter and what the actual numbers are, as well as the wattage.

but that is where i got my info.

Joshua1023 · 03/29/2007, 11:51 AM

I agree Hahn. I wonder how many people are taking the highest number that their meter bounces up to and calling it the highest number. I know I've seen much less bouncing since I meshed the impeller, but it does still bounce slightly. I take the middle ground when I am calling a number. 15-20scfh bouncing=17scfh when I report the numbers.

JCTewks · 03/29/2007, 01:09 PM

i know in most threads i have read people are using the "middle" of the bounce as their actual reading...that's how i do it.

hounddog01 · 03/29/2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joshua1023
I agree Hahn. I wonder how many people are taking the highest number that their meter bounces up to and calling it the highest number. I know I've seen much less bouncing since I meshed the impeller, but it does still bounce slightly. I take the middle ground when I am calling a number. 15-20scfh bouncing=17scfh when I report the numbers.

On the meter I have it bounces between 20 and the top of the meter. It is over the 20SCFH all the time. Another person just got one that goes up to 100. I am going to use it to see what it is pulling. I will see if I can get a pic for the disbelivers.

Joshua1023 · 03/29/2007, 01:46 PM

Me too. I bet we have the same meter. Only difference is my pump is 200gph or so slower than yours. I find 25 or even 40 scfh on the Octopus3000 totally believable.

hounddog01 · 03/29/2007, 03:23 PM

Probably if I did other mods. I have the pipe I constructed almost all the way to the bottom and have very nice skimate. I am not sure it would handle 30 without lengthing the neck of the skimmer.

jdoenumber2 · 03/30/2007, 09:35 PM

Ok i just got my NW200. What mods do i do and which should i avoid? I just dont want to hack it up with out being sure that i wont mess it up.

JCTewks · 03/30/2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdoenumber2
Ok i just got my NW200. What mods do i do and which should i avoid? I just dont want to hack it up with out being sure that i wont mess it up.

1.mesh mod!!!!!
2. new venturi 1/4"ID air feed, ported out venturi
3.enlarge all the input plumging you can. don't go too crazy or
you'll mill through the sides of the pipes.
4. make the volute bigger...wider and deeper
5. increase input/output sizes.
6. build a bigger skimmer for all of the air this thing will put out

do them in this order if you want to tak it that far...i would get an air meter to check and see how well your improvement is to help further the flow of information on this forum.
I would definitely get an air meter and kill-a-watt meter if you go any further than step 3. '

it really just depends on how addicted to DIYing you really are....when you walk through a jewelry store with your wife and start thinking how you could make pretty nice sump if all those diamonds weren't there you know you are hooked to DIY

jdoenumber2 · 03/30/2007, 10:05 PM

OK Why does watts matter? Where do i get a kilowatt and air flow meter. Is it possible to over draw air? Is there a flow valve that i can use incase i make too much flow and need to turn it down? Am i supposed to have 3 layers of needles? I only have two.

JCTewks · 03/30/2007, 10:14 PM

watts matter only when you get into some severe modding really...you want to keep the watts at or below the pumps rating so you don't have overheating. if you start making impellers that are too heavy or too much resistance (which will not happen if you just do a simple mesh mod) it can make the watts go up too high.

i got my kill-a-watt at harborfreight, and my air meter from Dwyer...just google them and you'll find it.

you should be able to find a needle valve pretty easily if you need to cut back airflow...some people say that the needle valve actually improves performance...i'm still up in the air on that one personally.

i'm not sure about the 3 vs 2 NW on the impeller...if you are going to do the meshmod it doesn't really matter...you only need one NW on there to attach the mesh to anyway.

hahnmeister · 03/31/2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdoenumber2
OK Why does watts matter? Where do i get a kilowatt and air flow meter. Is it possible to over draw air? Is there a flow valve that i can use incase i make too much flow and need to turn it down? Am i supposed to have 3 layers of needles? I only have two.

I found that as Im getting my Aquaclear 802 needlewheel mods up to the 20scfh range (pretty good for a 20 watt pump, eh?) the wattage gets lower. AS you lower the water throughput, and raise the air throughput, the pump doesnt have to work as much (which kinda makes sense... air is less dense). As I have gone from 15scfh to 18, the wattage went down from 15 watts to 13 watts. So it really depends on HOW you raise the air throughput in relation to the water throughput. The more you can raise the air throughput while keeping the water throughput the same or lower, the lower the wattage will be.

As far as 'overdrawing' air, yes. This is when the Dwyer meter bobs up and down rather than giving a costant, stable reading. What happens is a process by which the pump draws in air, but its too much, so it chokes... as it chokes, the suction drops. The pump then clears the excess air and regains suction... sucking in too much air again and the air intake keeps 'pulsing'. This is not a good thing, as the average air intake will be less than what it would be if it was stable. Even without an air meter, you can hear a pulsing noise on the air intake hose if you listen to it. A valve on the air inlet works, among a few other things.

ppurcell · 04/03/2007, 06:27 AM

hahnmeister, excellent explanation on the bouncing flowmeter.

I modded my OTP-3000 last night by drilling at an angle from the original venturi tube and installed a threaded 1/4 JG fitting that goes directly into the volute. This did not yield any improvement in the air volume which started at 5 lpm and was still 5 lpm after the mod.

So I put a wiretied a layer of enkamat to the top and bottom of my impeller (without breaking any of the arms or needles off first) and reinstalled it and fired it back up. If there was any change, the air draw decreased somewhat.

I'm somewhat surprised, because I thought these were pretty straightforward mods and I'm not getting any improvements at all. Can anyone offer some suggestions as to what I might do to make them work? I'll post some pics later if it will help.

192clark · 04/03/2007, 07:25 AM

1 layer of mesh is not enough, I have not seen anyone try it with one layer. My only suggestion is do what the others here have done. If you deviate from what others have done you will not get the same results. I am not sure why you would be surprised. Most use at least 3 layers of mesh and take off one row of needles to make room for the mesh.

ppurcell · 04/03/2007, 08:37 AM

192clark, actually there are two layers of mesh. One on the top and one on the bottom. Combined with the needle wheel and the enlarged venturi opening, this should resulted in a increase in performance. I didn't expect it to jump up to 25 lpm, but it doesn't seem to make sense that it had no impact or even a slight decrease in air volume.

I wanted to try a simple mod that wouldn't destroy my impeller before I started on the mods that can only be repaired by purchasing new parts. I meshmodded a standard impeller on my sedra 5000 on my old G3 and saw the lpm go from 5-6 lpm to 9-10 lpm. I'm still trying to find the right combination to get it into the 15+ range.

I'm a little chicken about jumping into the irreversable mods.

192clark · 04/03/2007, 09:35 AM

understood, I saw a layer of mesh, just did not see top and bottom. Sorry! From what I have read the venturi seems to do better if you drill it out so that RO tubing goes in where the tip use to be. Mine came with a couple of different ends for pump, maybe you could try that on the longer one if you in tend to use the shorter one. Then you would have a back up. It is weird that even after the RO tubing mod it seems to do better with the line restricted. Good luck. I bought an additional impeller just incase I screwed up the first one. I know it is kind of hard to take a new product and " destroy it ". I have had my moments where I thought okay here goes nothing! Good luck!

JCTewks · 04/03/2007, 07:35 PM

the flow prob went down due to increased weight of the impeller or material rubbing on the volute. you can pop the NW off pretty easily with a little knife...if you don't like the performance just put a little dab of superglue and stick the NW back on. just leave one NW on and attach your mesh to that, there won't be the weight issue or as big a risk for dragging.

Blazer88 · 04/05/2007, 02:24 PM

I'm glad I came across this thread! I have read most of it and just ordered a recirc 110 (limited space) and plan to mod it. I have the Enkamat on order right now and also want to do the o-ring and venturi mod. My question is, which venturi mod is best for the external skimmers? It seems that some people drilled straight through and installed a JG fitting. Is that the best option?

JCTewks · 04/05/2007, 09:21 PM

i drilled through and installed a 1/4" ID barb adapter...after boring out the elbow. I think the people using the JG adapters are not boring out the elbow...?

ppurcell · 04/06/2007, 12:35 PM

It looks like the enkamat that was on the bottom side of the impeller was dragging a bit, so I moved both layers to the top side of the impeller to try and increase the air suction. It didn't help and I now I don't think the problem is impellor weight or drag because if I plug or submerge the airline the pump the water volume and flow will jump up and the watt power draw will go up to 110 on my kill-a-watt meter (it reads between 30-50 watts when it is drawing air).

I tried to remove one layer of the needlewheel before I put the enkamat back on but it is glued on pretty well so I think I'm going to have to just break off the arms when I get the nerve to try that. It doesn't appear to be rubbing anywhere so I think it is ok.

Next I tried just putting the pump into a tub of saltwater to see how much air it would draw with no head pressure and I can get it up to about 8 lpm if it isn't connected to my skimmer body (an ASM G4+).

I also tried putting an V shaped piece of airline hose on the inside of the JG fitting in the volute to see if that would increase the suction, but it reduced the flow instead.

I am thinking that maybe I should try to grind out the inside of the volute.

Also, I have the output of the OTP-3000 setup with the 20mm to male hose adaptor going into a nylon female hose adaptor to 3/4" MPT. That connect to a 3/4" to 1" bushing. Might I be better off staying with a 3/4" tubing?

impur · 04/06/2007, 01:03 PM

Somethings not right ppurcell. I added the 2 layers of mesh to the top of my needlewheel, i did not remove any of the needles, and i saw an immediate improvement.

How deep is your pump in your sump? How many inches of water are above it? Its harder to pull air thru the airline the deeper it has to go.

Just a thought.

ppurcell · 04/06/2007, 01:06 PM

impur, I agree something isn't right but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

I put the pump into a bucket to test so that there wouldn't be any head pressure. The pump only draws 7-8 lpm when it is running disconnected from the skimmer in 5" of water with no head pressure at all.

03/29/2007, 11:51 AM	#256
Joshua1023 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Reading PA Posts: 1,526	I agree Hahn. I wonder how many people are taking the highest number that their meter bounces up to and calling it the highest number. I know I've seen much less bouncing since I meshed the impeller, but it does still bounce slightly. I take the middle ground when I am calling a number. 15-20scfh bouncing=17scfh when I report the numbers. __________________ Only bad things happen fast. Only bad thing happen fast. Only bad things happen fast. Man,I'm friggen hard-headed!!! Current Tank Info: 90 gl tank,Coralife 14K MH lights,2 Current dual daylight/actinic 40 watt fixtures, tidepool sump,Coralife SS 220 protein skimmer,six inch sand bed w/ plenum, Current Prime Tower 1/3 hp Chiller,RedSea ozonizer w/ orp

03/29/2007, 01:46 PM	#259
Joshua1023 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Reading PA Posts: 1,526	Me too. I bet we have the same meter. Only difference is my pump is 200gph or so slower than yours. I find 25 or even 40 scfh on the Octopus3000 totally believable. __________________ Only bad things happen fast. Only bad thing happen fast. Only bad things happen fast. Man,I'm friggen hard-headed!!! Current Tank Info: 90 gl tank,Coralife 14K MH lights,2 Current dual daylight/actinic 40 watt fixtures, tidepool sump,Coralife SS 220 protein skimmer,six inch sand bed w/ plenum, Current Prime Tower 1/3 hp Chiller,RedSea ozonizer w/ orp

03/29/2007, 03:23 PM	#260
hounddog01 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 1,045	Probably if I did other mods. I have the pipe I constructed almost all the way to the bottom and have very nice skimate. I am not sure it would handle 30 without lengthing the neck of the skimmer. __________________ Brad "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates Current Tank Info: 180 gallon Acrylic, 65 gallon custom sump, Octopus Extreme 250, 150 LBS Marco Rock, 2-250 W Phoenix with 4 110 VHO supplement

04/06/2007, 12:35 PM	#273
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	It looks like the enkamat that was on the bottom side of the impeller was dragging a bit, so I moved both layers to the top side of the impeller to try and increase the air suction. It didn't help and I now I don't think the problem is impellor weight or drag because if I plug or submerge the airline the pump the water volume and flow will jump up and the watt power draw will go up to 110 on my kill-a-watt meter (it reads between 30-50 watts when it is drawing air). I tried to remove one layer of the needlewheel before I put the enkamat back on but it is glued on pretty well so I think I'm going to have to just break off the arms when I get the nerve to try that. It doesn't appear to be rubbing anywhere so I think it is ok. Next I tried just putting the pump into a tub of saltwater to see how much air it would draw with no head pressure and I can get it up to about 8 lpm if it isn't connected to my skimmer body (an ASM G4+). I also tried putting an V shaped piece of airline hose on the inside of the JG fitting in the volute to see if that would increase the suction, but it reduced the flow instead. I am thinking that maybe I should try to grind out the inside of the volute. Also, I have the output of the OTP-3000 setup with the 20mm to male hose adaptor going into a nylon female hose adaptor to 3/4" MPT. That connect to a 3/4" to 1" bushing. Might I be better off staying with a 3/4" tubing? Last edited by ppurcell; 04/06/2007 at 12:45 PM.

04/06/2007, 01:03 PM	#274
impur Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 4,262	Somethings not right ppurcell. I added the 2 layers of mesh to the top of my needlewheel, i did not remove any of the needles, and i saw an immediate improvement. How deep is your pump in your sump? How many inches of water are above it? Its harder to pull air thru the airline the deeper it has to go. Just a thought. __________________ Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds. Current Tank Info: 75gal, 20gal sump, 6-54w T5 TEK

03/28/2007, 11:53 PM	#253
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	"Rich Conley has a NW 200 modded to pull 60SCFH and has it dialed back to 45 SCFH max air intake." Has this been verified? I mean, just because sometimes your meter 'pegs' a certain number on the meter doesnt mean its drawing that much if its bobbing up and down in the process. Also, what is the wattage on the pump at 45scfh? It may be too much to sustain safely. Sorry to be skeptic, but you know how rumors can fly around here like mad and get taken as truth just because enough people repeat it.

03/29/2007, 01:53 AM	#254
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	i will see if I can find the post...it is somewhere in this thread...

03/29/2007, 02:11 AM	#255
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	Hahnmeister: try these links http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&pagenumber=25 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&pagenumber=28 i can only take his word for without pictures...it would be nice to know if he ever got a larger air meter and what the actual numbers are, as well as the wattage. but that is where i got my info.

03/29/2007, 01:09 PM	#257
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	i know in most threads i have read people are using the "middle" of the bounce as their actual reading...that's how i do it.

03/30/2007, 09:35 PM	#261
jdoenumber2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Fairport, NY Posts: 2,093	Ok i just got my NW200. What mods do i do and which should i avoid? I just dont want to hack it up with out being sure that i wont mess it up.

03/30/2007, 10:05 PM	#263
jdoenumber2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Fairport, NY Posts: 2,093	OK Why does watts matter? Where do i get a kilowatt and air flow meter. Is it possible to over draw air? Is there a flow valve that i can use incase i make too much flow and need to turn it down? Am i supposed to have 3 layers of needles? I only have two.

03/30/2007, 10:14 PM	#264
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	watts matter only when you get into some severe modding really...you want to keep the watts at or below the pumps rating so you don't have overheating. if you start making impellers that are too heavy or too much resistance (which will not happen if you just do a simple mesh mod) it can make the watts go up too high. i got my kill-a-watt at harborfreight, and my air meter from Dwyer...just google them and you'll find it. you should be able to find a needle valve pretty easily if you need to cut back airflow...some people say that the needle valve actually improves performance...i'm still up in the air on that one personally. i'm not sure about the 3 vs 2 NW on the impeller...if you are going to do the meshmod it doesn't really matter...you only need one NW on there to attach the mesh to anyway.

04/03/2007, 06:27 AM	#266
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	hahnmeister, excellent explanation on the bouncing flowmeter. I modded my OTP-3000 last night by drilling at an angle from the original venturi tube and installed a threaded 1/4 JG fitting that goes directly into the volute. This did not yield any improvement in the air volume which started at 5 lpm and was still 5 lpm after the mod. So I put a wiretied a layer of enkamat to the top and bottom of my impeller (without breaking any of the arms or needles off first) and reinstalled it and fired it back up. If there was any change, the air draw decreased somewhat. I'm somewhat surprised, because I thought these were pretty straightforward mods and I'm not getting any improvements at all. Can anyone offer some suggestions as to what I might do to make them work? I'll post some pics later if it will help.

04/03/2007, 07:25 AM	#267
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	1 layer of mesh is not enough, I have not seen anyone try it with one layer. My only suggestion is do what the others here have done. If you deviate from what others have done you will not get the same results. I am not sure why you would be surprised. Most use at least 3 layers of mesh and take off one row of needles to make room for the mesh.

04/03/2007, 08:37 AM	#268
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	192clark, actually there are two layers of mesh. One on the top and one on the bottom. Combined with the needle wheel and the enlarged venturi opening, this should resulted in a increase in performance. I didn't expect it to jump up to 25 lpm, but it doesn't seem to make sense that it had no impact or even a slight decrease in air volume. I wanted to try a simple mod that wouldn't destroy my impeller before I started on the mods that can only be repaired by purchasing new parts. I meshmodded a standard impeller on my sedra 5000 on my old G3 and saw the lpm go from 5-6 lpm to 9-10 lpm. I'm still trying to find the right combination to get it into the 15+ range. I'm a little chicken about jumping into the irreversable mods.

04/03/2007, 09:35 AM	#269
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	understood, I saw a layer of mesh, just did not see top and bottom. Sorry! From what I have read the venturi seems to do better if you drill it out so that RO tubing goes in where the tip use to be. Mine came with a couple of different ends for pump, maybe you could try that on the longer one if you in tend to use the shorter one. Then you would have a back up. It is weird that even after the RO tubing mod it seems to do better with the line restricted. Good luck. I bought an additional impeller just incase I screwed up the first one. I know it is kind of hard to take a new product and " destroy it ". I have had my moments where I thought okay here goes nothing! Good luck!

04/03/2007, 07:35 PM	#270
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	the flow prob went down due to increased weight of the impeller or material rubbing on the volute. you can pop the NW off pretty easily with a little knife...if you don't like the performance just put a little dab of superglue and stick the NW back on. just leave one NW on and attach your mesh to that, there won't be the weight issue or as big a risk for dragging.

04/05/2007, 02:24 PM	#271
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	I'm glad I came across this thread! I have read most of it and just ordered a recirc 110 (limited space) and plan to mod it. I have the Enkamat on order right now and also want to do the o-ring and venturi mod. My question is, which venturi mod is best for the external skimmers? It seems that some people drilled straight through and installed a JG fitting. Is that the best option?

04/05/2007, 09:21 PM	#272
JCTewks Moved On Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wilmington, Ohio Posts: 3,040	i drilled through and installed a 1/4" ID barb adapter...after boring out the elbow. I think the people using the JG adapters are not boring out the elbow...?

04/06/2007, 01:06 PM	#275
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	impur, I agree something isn't right but I'll be damned if I know what it is. I put the pump into a bucket to test so that there wouldn't be any head pressure. The pump only draws 7-8 lpm when it is running disconnected from the skimmer in 5" of water with no head pressure at all.