N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[daveonbass]

it's worth a shot, I'll run all these ideas by SWC and see what they recommend. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if their next idea is to dose MB7.

[Moser]

Originally Posted by jlinzmaier

Before you jump on the Brightwell bandwagon here's a link to Randy's comments on Brightwell products.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1762160&highlight=brightwell

Randy doesn't provide just an opinion, but rather completely shows how Chris is incorrect in the marketing claims of his products and how incorrect Chris is on the information he posts as facts. Good marketing and talking in scientific terms doesn't mean anything if what you're stating is wrong.

Just an FYI for those of us who get caught up in marketing hype (myself included). Good marketing is a bad thing for reefers!

Jeremy

Wow!,

He isn't popular with them is he?

Mo

[Moser]

Originally Posted by tntneon

hi Moser ,

do you mean you have added zeo stones to your reactor , or do you use the whole list of zeo products in combination with BP's ?

greetingzz tntneon

Hi,

I haven't used the basic zeo 4 as the pellets take care of that.

I have been slowly introducing the rest of the additives though.

Mo

[TheFishMan65]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daveonbass is following what SWC recommends. Do you know better than them? If and when they give up aI am sure Dave will be willing to try some of your suggestions.

Sorry, but I think you all are being a little hard on Dave.

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

I think some of you are missing the point. Daveonbass is following what SWC recommends. Do you know better than them? If and when they give up aI am sure Dave will be willing to try some of your suggestions.

Sorry, but I think you all are being a little hard on Dave.

Have you read from the beginning? SWC isn't the first brand of pellets he has tried. He has been knocking them from the beginning, but I do understand some of his frustration, but before the SWC, he flat out refused to try anything other just adding the pellets, would not try and feed the bacteria to spur growth, he felt they should just work no matter what, which isn't real world. I give him credit for sticking with it though and I think he finally understands that it isn't a perfect solution and that it is a product with no clinical testing or R&D and no one as of yet has the answer why it works in some tanks and not others. I am not hard on him, I actually want to figure out why they don't work for him because it will help someone else down the road.

[TheFishMan65]

I have read this thread and several others. And I admiy that I am at a loss to understand his problem. Perhaps ealrier he should have tried something else. And he did rice. Now he is stritly following the manufactureers personal direction and it seems people are the harshest on him now. At this pont IMHO he is doing the right thing - exactly what the manufacturers says (at least as he understands it).

I should hope they have a better chance of solving hs problems then we do. If not I have to wonder if they really understand their products.

[sirreal63]

You do realize that SWC is not the manufacturer of this product, just a distributor and they are as clueless as the rest of us are? They are using him for discovery, the only difference is we are hobbyists and they seek a profit.

[daveonbass]

woah! Have YOU read from the beginning?.

SWC is the "second of two" brands that I've tried and not once have I WANTED to knock them from the beginning. I actually bought them, that's proof right there that I want them to work. What is wrong with you guy...can you not see that I of all people want them to work more than anything? I hate that I have an aquarium investment that has no use...its just not working, therefore not useful in my tank. The only timeive refused to try anything is either NOW, that I'm usingsomeone elses pelets and want to do as they tell me, or BEFORE, when I did try stuff that was possible for me to try. If it involved spending any more money then I just can't do it...right now I have no spare money. If someone wants to send me a whole bottle od bacteria then I'd be happy to use it...but I can't afford to order more stuff right now, and no one local even sells marine stuff.

my tank is stable and dandy, I'm not worried about it anymore, and yes...doing large WC's has helped to maintain that stability. My corals are no longer dying and growth is better than ever in the tank...BUT...the BP still do nothing to combat my N levels. As far as not having any other proof of my P levels...again, sorry I can't afford another expensive gadget for my tank. Al I have is what's available.

I HAVE followed this thread for a long time now...over a year. So don't put the wrong words in my mouth please...

...by the way...still no change.

[TheFishMan65]

No I did not realize that so thank you for pointing that out. However, I would like to hope that a distributor has a direct line of contact with the manufacturer and would not be supplying false information. I would also hope that a distributor has at least as much knowledge as we do. If not I would wonder why they are still in business. Perhaps there mofive is profit, but if they can't solve the problem do you really think they will gain a profit. I would think their irinterest in a success for Dave is much larger than ours.

[daveonbass]

Originally Posted by sirreal63

You do realize that SWC is not the manufacturer of this product, just a distributor and they are as clueless as the rest of us are? They are using him for discovery, the only difference is we are hobbyists and they seek a profit.

correct. They are a distributor of an american made polymer. They are playing the guessing game with us all. BUT there is no monitary value in it for them. They were gracious enough to send me some pellets in the hopes that their product would work...so far no dice. So no one is gaining anything but info from this endevor...(unless they work, then I gain something finally )

[TheFishMan65]

I am confused who what is SWC just to clarify please. I have one saying it is a distributor and Dave (if I understand) saying it is a brand (which I read a s manufacturer or redistributor, but someone that shold be knowlegable).

I realize (or at least as I understand) all these pellets where made for another use and we (the salt water folks) just found them.

[EDIT]
Posted (or tried) before Dave's last one). I think the question (at least for me) is are they the repackager (in which case they should be knowledgable) or just a store.

[sirreal63]

Dave, I have tried to help you in this quest for a while, and will continue to do so, even if you frustrate me at times. And yes SWC does have a monetary stake in the product, don't think that little amount they sent you hurt them in the least. It was just testing to see if their product was really any different than the BP one. I know you are smarter than to think there was no monetary value for them, they don't distribute products at their cost, they are a business.

I am just hopeful that when they cut you lose you will drop a little sugar or vinegar in the tank, things you should have in the kitchen already, to try and get the right bacteria primed and munching on those pellets.

[daveonbass]

SWC is SaltWaterConnection. It is a dot com business that decided to buy and resell their own form of pellets. It's both a distrubuter and a brand per say.

the true "manufacturer" of the pellets that they sell is just a regular plastics maker in the states. They could care less what we do with them, much less what happens in my tank. :/

[bertoni]

I don't understand why bacteria or vinegar should help the situation, personally. Bacteria tend to come for free, and the pellets have been in the tank long enough that I suspect there's some growth on them. What would be the purpose of adding another form of carbon?

[daveonbass]

but keep in mind that EVERYONE is a "repackager" of these BP. This is NOT what they were created/intended for.

[daveonbass]

bertoni: good point...you managed to summarize what took me a full page to try and say. (I felt like I was gonna get banned)

[TheFishMan65]

Thanks Dave. Given that (and it was I thought) you would hope they know what they are buying and packaging. And therefore should know what to tell you. So until they cut him free then he should follow what they say. Although frustrating I appreciate hearing what is happening. At the least it tells me what I might try if they don't work for me.

If, when they give up I hope Dave can afford to try some of the suggestions made here and post his results. From what I remeber reading Dave has said they don't work for him. He would like them to work for him. And although perhaps close he is it not quite ready to call them a hoax.

The only issue with Dave is that he does not have a lot of money (i'm in your boat). He is trying to follow the direction, but to date none have worked for him.

[sirreal63]

The only thing I can see from dosing a little VSV would be to stimulate the bacteria. It is easily dissolved and may help fuel the bacteria. It may not help, but if it doesn't help then we know that it is not a bacteria problem and some other one exists. It is a process of elimination and should have no ill effects on the tank.

[bertoni]

Well, the pellets are supposed to be a carbon source, which is what vinegar is adding. If the vinegar is needed, the pellets aren't doing what they're supposed to do, which is possible, but would be strange.

[sirreal63]

I tend to agree but something is limiting the effectiveness of the pellets in his tank, and there is nothing to lose by helping the bacteria along.

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by philbo32

+1 to jlinzmaier



It isn't a jump start that is needed but a shift in dominant bacterial species. The majority of tanks do not need to be dosed with the correct bacteria as they have good a bacterial balance, but a few people do have problems and this has also been seen with other types of carbon dosing. By dosing bacteria in these circumstances has helped change and improve the balance of bacteria in there systems.

Did you dose organic carbon for the removal of nitrate and phosphate in your freshwater system? Its usually the opposite when you have plants involved, plus you tend not to try to acheive an ULNS in freshwater systems is all I'm getting at.

Sorry it took so long to react, but here goes.

Look, I'm not even half as smart as most of the people over here, I'm just a guy who fixes cars for a living.....
My expertiece gets called upon when people try to hug a tree or something with their car

But, how do you know that you are putting the "right" bacteria in your tank?
Do they all wear nametags when you look at them under a microscope?

I was planning on ranting on and on, but I decided I'm not contrubting much other than background noise that nobody is interested in.......

As I already stated, what's up with the rest of you guys, nothing to report?....

Good or bad?

Thanks

Ivan

[philbo32]

Hi Ivan

But, how do you know that you are putting the "right" bacteria in your tank?
I grow and dose my own marine bacteria grown in fermenters and know that the majority I dose are denitrifying.
A lot of people have used MB7 and zeobak and there are others, which have helped to reduce nitrate and phosphate in tanks.

Do they all wear nametags when you look at them under a microscope?
lol, you can get a rough idea of what types of bacteria you have by there shape under a microscope, but RNA and DNA analysis is required for more accurate identification using expensive equipment. The other method of identification is via plating at different temperatures and then working out if they are gram positive or gram negative. Again a costly process that isn't as accurate as the DNA method.

As I already stated, what's up with the rest of you guys, nothing to report?....

They work for me so far, but I'm using DIY biopellets so I know exactly whats in them.

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by philbo32

Hi Ivan

But, how do you know that you are putting the "right" bacteria in your tank?
I grow and dose my own marine bacteria grown in fermenters and know that the majority I dose are denitrifying.
A lot of people have used MB7 and zeobak and there are others, which have helped to reduce nitrate and phosphate in tanks.

Do they all wear nametags when you look at them under a microscope?
lol, you can get a rough idea of what types of bacteria you have by there shape under a microscope, but RNA and DNA analysis is required for more accurate identification using expensive equipment. The other method of identification is via plating at different temperatures and then working out if they are gram positive or gram negative. Again a costly process that isn't as accurate as the DNA method.

As I already stated, what's up with the rest of you guys, nothing to report?....

They work for me so far, but I'm using DIY biopellets so I know exactly whats in them.

Boy, as stated above..... way smarter than me!

But thank you for explaining it in a way that I can understand....... come to think of it, this hobby really spiraled out of control for you huh............ I know people who grow their own food, but you took it to a whole other level.........

Growing your own bacteria AND making your own pellets?!! .....

Sorry, but I think your a "reefaholic"

And thank you for letting me know that the pellets are working for you.

Ivan

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by Moser

Hi,

I haven't used the basic zeo 4 as the pellets take care of that.

I have been slowly introducing the rest of the additives though.

Mo

Hi Moser ,

Can you tell us wich other zeo products they are ?
I thought you added some zeostones to your BP reactor , is something that also wanna try.
Then you have the food (bp) / and best surface material (zeostones) in close proximity of each other and the stones can have and increassed abbrasive effect on the pellets.
Don't know if this would lead to even better results (as they are very good...) , but i'm i guy who can stop experimenting (with patience ).

greetingzz tntneon

[jlinzmaier]

Originally Posted by izzy123

Growing your own bacteria

It's actually quite easy and bacterioplankton are a great food source for filter feeding animals.

Jeremy