N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing) - Page 115

daveonbass · 09/26/2010, 01:16 PM

diy biopellets...?

philbo32 · 09/26/2010, 01:52 PM

diy biopellets...?

I have made my own starch plastic biopellets, they breakdown quicker than the PHA and PLA plastics. So I only need to use about 30mL in a reactor for my 380L system. I am refining the method using fillers and a mixed types of glucose to stop them from absorbing moisture and to slow down the rate at which they breakdown. I started a thread about 9 months about making them, will have to do some updating to it shortly. The types of fillers and how the plastic is made are a lot safer IMO as I know exactly whats in there and choose more environmentally friendly ingredients.

Rwpdunne · 09/27/2010, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tntneon

Hi Moser

,

Can you tell us wich other zeo products they are ?
I thought you added some zeostones to your BP reactor , is something that also wanna try.
Then you have the food (bp) / and best surface material (zeostones) in close proximity of each other and the stones can have and increassed abbrasive effect on the pellets.
Don't know if this would lead to even better results (as they are very good...) , but i'm i guy who can stop experimenting (with patience ).

greetingzz tntneon

Zeovit dont recommend running pellets with the basic 4 if your going to run Zeovit you dont need pellets nor do you need gfo

1DeR9_3Hy · 09/27/2010, 08:14 AM

So 115 pages, ive read/skimmed about 30 pages randomly looking for a solid opinion either way. Can we get some cliffs here? All i can seem to find are snapshots of arguments lol...

izzy123 · 09/27/2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlinzmaier

It's actually quite easy and bacterioplankton are a great food source for filter feeding animals.

Jeremy

Well, to tell you the truth, it doesn't sound easy.....

You guys are out of control....

The only bacteria I can grow involves not washing myself for a week!

Still, I love to pick the brains of guys as expierienced and smart as you....

But I think I should learn how to stand before I learn how to fly....

Thanks

Ivan

izzy123 · 09/27/2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1DeR9_3Hy

So 115 pages, ive read/skimmed about 30 pages randomly looking for a solid opinion either way. Can we get some cliffs here? All i can seem to find are snapshots of arguments lol...

Well, to tell you the thruth, the whole thread lost a bit of it's initial appeal IMO.

there are a lot of "betatesters" who I haven't heard from for a while..... too bad tho.

But, I guess they got a bit tired of all the arguments over here

anen · 09/27/2010, 10:23 PM

I have np biopellets running on a tank for about six months now. I started the tank with them. First 2 weeks I dosed mb7 until I ran out. It's a 40 breeder, 29g sump, TLF150 reactor filled about 1/3 full running on a mj1200.

The pellets still look the same way they came out of the bag, same size, same color. I have had undetectable nitrates but had to add GFO and a chaeto fuge to bring my nitrates down. I never noticed any bacterial bloom, and I don't see any stringy bacteria or anything like that.

Based on this would you say the pellets are working?

If so how can I get them to bring down the phosphates? Add more?
If they're not working, any suggestions how get them going?

DarkXerox · 09/28/2010, 01:00 AM

Well I started my N/P pellets (new formula) in the tank about a week ago. Didn't see any growth of bacteria, even when taking them out and putting them in a jar with flake food and tank water for a couple weeks before actually starting them on the tank. They're running in a TLF 150 reactor with 100mL of pellets on a 30g system. Nitrates were 5mg/L before starting with phosphates detectable but not high (salifert kits). I kept some samples (0.3um filtered and unfiltered) at -20C that I'll run on an HPLC (IEX) when I get a chance to have more accurate results.

All of a sudden this morning...huge bloom. Skimmate is white/pinkish and the LPS look somewhat closed up, while the SPS are open as usual. Fish have typical big appetites.

The big difference? I added 1 gallon of natural sea water yesterday evening since we do NSW changes on our 90g system and I was too lazy to mix up 1 gallon of salt mix. I haven't used NSW on my tank in over a year and I'm starting to think that whatever strains that were dominant in my tank went through some sort of succession and new opportunistic strains took over.

All speculation of course, but the timing was suspicious.

mm.reefs · 09/28/2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by izzy123

Well, to tell you the thruth, the whole thread lost a bit of it's initial appeal IMO.

there are a lot of "betatesters" who I haven't heard from for a while..... too bad tho.

But, I guess they got a bit tired of all the arguments over here

1+

bluereefs · 09/28/2010, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by izzy123

Well, to tell you the thruth, the whole thread lost a bit of it's initial appeal IMO.

there are a lot of "betatesters" who I haven't heard from for a while..... too bad tho.

But, I guess they got a bit tired of all the arguments over here

I am not quite sure did I belong to "betatesters" or not

but in case I belong to them here is my short update.
BP right now work excellent, everything stabilize, nitrates are 1 mg/lit , in the begining they was 100 mg/lit. Skimmer colect every day big amount of stinky (very very stinky) skimmate and is cleaned daily, filter socks are cleaned every 48 hours, they get cloged with bacteria. No bacterial bloom, water transparency is excellent, no bad issue with corals whatsoever, all are open, PE are excellent, I dump loots of food in aquarium daily and nitrate did not rise... now they work as they should work.

Did not post latelly because I take care of nitrates what was my main issue last few months, now I take care of second issue: aiptasia infestation, get zapper from PaulB (thread: electrocuting majano) and zapping almost all aiptasia in last few days. Highly recomend this device, is number one invention in reef keping history ,lol

Second there was question here, mostly with Dave trouble where I simply can not help, dont know the answer for his trouble so there is no reason to post.

anen · 09/28/2010, 08:59 AM

What was the problem you were having and how did you fix it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluereefs

I am not quite sure did I belong to "betatesters" or not

but in case I belong to them here is my short update.
BP right now work excellent, everything stabilize, nitrates are 1 mg/lit , in the begining they was 100 mg/lit. Skimmer colect every day big amount of stinky (very very stinky) skimmate and is cleaned daily, filter socks are cleaned every 48 hours, they get cloged with bacteria. No bacterial bloom, water transparency is excellent, no bad issue with corals whatsoever, all are open, PE are excellent, I dump loots of food in aquarium daily and nitrate did not rise... now they work as they should work.

Did not post latelly because I take care of nitrates what was my main issue last few months, now I take care of second issue: aiptasia infestation, get zapper from PaulB (thread: electrocuting majano) and zapping almost all aiptasia in last few days. Highly recomend this device, is number one invention in reef keping history ,lol

Second there was question here, mostly with Dave trouble where I simply can not help, dont know the answer for his trouble so there is no reason to post.

bluereefs · 09/28/2010, 09:40 AM

Anen, is hard to explain in one post, I writed many post about experiment with bp in last few months in this thread.

Many things with bp usage are now much more clear but they was not clear in the past. Shortly, I could not get bp to work in standard fluid reactor but I could get them to work in my diy reactor, 2 things are unusual here, first there are no big diference betwen standard fluid reactor and my diy reactor, and second, standard fluid reactor who was not working in my case after I sold him work quite good in other aquarium.

For some unknowen reason bp do not wont to work always, and is not related with anything specific (for example high phosphate/ no phosphate, high nitrates/low nitrates, artifical seawater/natural sea water... etc)

After I get them to work in my diy reactor they actuall start to work too explosivly creating bacterial bloom almost instantly in various aquarium where I use them. So I come to solution and that is starting with very low amount of bp, in my case 100 ml per 150 gallons of aquarium capacity and toping each week or two with another 100 ml until I come to amount what remove nitrates but dont create bacterial bloom. In my case 500 ml was working amount.

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 09:55 AM

bluereefs,

It would be very intereting to me at least, if you tried mixing in the pellets into 3-5 mm carbonate gravel and use this in your reactor, to see if you could cut back on the amount of pellets you need to use to maintain or reduce nitrate.

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 10:18 AM

FWIW, according to the PCL patent you should be able to cut back between 25%-75% of the volume of the pellets used in your reactor (at least the PCL product) and replace this volume with 3-5 mm carbonate gravel and achieve the same results. The gravel and pellets would need to be throughly mixed together and then placed in the reactor. This could amount to a lot of $$$$$ if it works.

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 10:26 AM

Also, the same applies to using pellets (at least PCL pellets) in a filter bag (fleece bags). You can reduce the volume of pellets the same way and achieve the same results using the gravel mixed in throughly.

See this link for details:

http://www.wikipatents.com/US-Patent...m-water/Page-1

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 10:29 AM

Doing this may help reduce the chances of bacterial blooms as well.

IMHO, it is worth experimenting with to see if money can be saved regarding the amount of these expensive pellets you need to use.

bluereefs · 09/28/2010, 11:38 AM

HighlandReefer , I follow your thread about PCL patent/pellets, is quite interesting. From that thread most interesting part ( if I get that corectly) is that grounding pellets made the best results?? So maybe I will ground some pellets and drop them in one aquarium too se the results. I do not have high nitrate anymore so dont know how to measue succes or not succes, but algae growths on the glass as well as complete aquarium look can give a hint if that work or not.

Regarding mixing bp with coral sand/gravel (4-6 mm) in reactor I can try that with my third aquarium where is still fluid reactor with bio pellets who do not wont to work as they should.

Will post my experiment after I start them in this thread.

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 11:55 AM

Sounds good to me either or both ways you choose to try. You do seem to have a good success rate & a good handle when using these pellets.

I would definitely be interested in any results you discover.

Personally it would be nice to start your own thread to help segregate things out from this very long thread, which gets very confusing.

HighlandReefer · 09/28/2010, 11:57 AM

Yes, when ground pellets into a powder were dosed to a tank it seemed to work great.

izzy123 · 09/28/2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluereefs

I am not quite sure did I belong to "betatesters" or not

but in case I belong to them here is my short update.
BP right now work excellent, everything stabilize, nitrates are 1 mg/lit , in the begining they was 100 mg/lit. Skimmer colect every day big amount of stinky (very very stinky) skimmate and is cleaned daily, filter socks are cleaned every 48 hours, they get cloged with bacteria. No bacterial bloom, water transparency is excellent, no bad issue with corals whatsoever, all are open, PE are excellent, I dump loots of food in aquarium daily and nitrate did not rise... now they work as they should work.

Did not post latelly because I take care of nitrates what was my main issue last few months, now I take care of second issue: aiptasia infestation, get zapper from PaulB (thread: electrocuting majano) and zapping almost all aiptasia in last few days. Highly recomend this device, is number one invention in reef keping history ,lol

Second there was question here, mostly with Dave trouble where I simply can not help, dont know the answer for his trouble so there is no reason to post.

Yes bluereefs, you are definitly a "betatester"........

and I'm glad to hear of you!

But, you are forgiven...... you where busy zappin' those aiptasia

I love the invention of PaulB, I already built his contraption, and I'm still setting up my tank!!

thank you for letting us know of your progress

Ivan

izzy123 · 09/28/2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandReefer

I would definitely be interested in any results you discover.

Personally it would be nice to start your own thread to help segregate things out from this very long thread, which gets very confusing.

+1

That should be an interesting read!!

Ivan

bluereefs · 09/28/2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by izzy123

+1

That should be an interesting read!!

Ivan

O yes, particulary due to my English language skill

holdyourlight · 09/28/2010, 12:35 PM

please help if you can:

Here are my tank specs: 120g starphire, 72x18x22, super reef octopus 3000sss skimmer running @ 6.5" depth, 30g sump, running carbon, gfo, 500ml biopellets, cheato, 2 vortechs for flow, 13 small fish, 1 torch coral for the clowns to host (havent added any coral yet)

Here is the chain of events:

8/20: tank was set-up. already established rock and sand so very minimal cycle occured.

8/22: started biopellets

8/24: bacteria cloud-skimmer going crazy

8/28: bacteria cloud gone skimmer working normal

9/6: tank is cloudy again

9/14: cloudiness not going away so removed 1/2 of biopellets

9/17: tank clears up

9/20: skimmer stops producing foam

9/22: removed all of biopellets

9/26: tank is cloudy again, no biopellets and skimmer still will not produce foam

just tested the parms @ lunch
sp grav: 1.025
temp:79
cal:460
alk:9.2
mag:1375
ph:8.2
nitrates:0
phos:0

SO CONFUSED, any insight/ideas/solutions for getting the skimmer to work and making the cloudiness go away is greatly appreciated!

izzy123 · 09/28/2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluereefs

O yes, particulary due to my English language skill

hey, I'm from Belgium..... this is not exactly my "native tongue" you know!

I'm sure I made some serious bloopers over here, but I don't mind

And as long as I can read and understand it, I don't care!

bluereefs · 09/28/2010, 01:10 PM

holdyourlight, you have very unusual situation, never come acros similar issue, everytime after the bp are removed cloudines alse disapear in next day or two. I do have serious cloudines in the past during bacterial bloom but after I remove the bp cloudines disapear. Also my skimmers working very strong during all bacterial bloom and they stabilize/back to normal after cloudines disapear. Dont get it why your skimmer do not wont to work and even less I understend how you get bacterial bloom 4 days after you remove the bio pellets??? BTW I use reef octopus super skimmers as well, big 5000/6000 internal model in all aquariums.

Do you maybe use garlic with fish food as a parasite prevention?

09/26/2010, 01:16 PM	#2851
daveonbass Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: texarkana, TX Posts: 1,364	diy biopellets...? __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 58g reef, 60 total gallons including rocks and sand, 36" 6 bulb ATI Powermodule, DAS skimmer, Bio pellets, 2 MP10 vortechs

09/26/2010, 01:52 PM	#2852
philbo32 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 306	diy biopellets...? I have made my own starch plastic biopellets, they breakdown quicker than the PHA and PLA plastics. So I only need to use about 30mL in a reactor for my 380L system. I am refining the method using fillers and a mixed types of glucose to stop them from absorbing moisture and to slow down the rate at which they breakdown. I started a thread about 9 months about making them, will have to do some updating to it shortly. The types of fillers and how the plastic is made are a lot safer IMO as I know exactly whats in there and choose more environmentally friendly ingredients. __________________ Occupation: Marine and freshwater biologist/Aquatic researcher Interests: Aquatic microbial biology, reef keeping and snorkelling Current Tank Info: 700L reef system, Deltec Skimmer, GHL CPU, GHL mitras, full weather simulator, 2x tunze wavemakers

09/28/2010, 09:55 AM	#2863
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	bluereefs, It would be very intereting to me at least, if you tried mixing in the pellets into 3-5 mm carbonate gravel and use this in your reactor, to see if you could cut back on the amount of pellets you need to use to maintain or reduce nitrate. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system Last edited by HighlandReefer; 09/28/2010 at 10:03 AM.

09/28/2010, 10:18 AM	#2864
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	FWIW, according to the PCL patent you should be able to cut back between 25%-75% of the volume of the pellets used in your reactor (at least the PCL product) and replace this volume with 3-5 mm carbonate gravel and achieve the same results. The gravel and pellets would need to be throughly mixed together and then placed in the reactor. This could amount to a lot of $$$$$ if it works. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system Last edited by HighlandReefer; 09/28/2010 at 10:26 AM.

09/28/2010, 10:26 AM	#2865
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Also, the same applies to using pellets (at least PCL pellets) in a filter bag (fleece bags). You can reduce the volume of pellets the same way and achieve the same results using the gravel mixed in throughly. See this link for details: http://www.wikipatents.com/US-Patent...m-water/Page-1 __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system Last edited by HighlandReefer; 09/28/2010 at 10:32 AM.

09/27/2010, 08:14 AM	#2854
1DeR9_3Hy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,575	So 115 pages, ive read/skimmed about 30 pages randomly looking for a solid opinion either way. Can we get some cliffs here? All i can seem to find are snapshots of arguments lol...

09/27/2010, 10:23 PM	#2857
anen Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 164	I have np biopellets running on a tank for about six months now. I started the tank with them. First 2 weeks I dosed mb7 until I ran out. It's a 40 breeder, 29g sump, TLF150 reactor filled about 1/3 full running on a mj1200. The pellets still look the same way they came out of the bag, same size, same color. I have had undetectable nitrates but had to add GFO and a chaeto fuge to bring my nitrates down. I never noticed any bacterial bloom, and I don't see any stringy bacteria or anything like that. Based on this would you say the pellets are working? If so how can I get them to bring down the phosphates? Add more? If they're not working, any suggestions how get them going?

09/28/2010, 01:00 AM	#2858
DarkXerox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 1,299	Well I started my N/P pellets (new formula) in the tank about a week ago. Didn't see any growth of bacteria, even when taking them out and putting them in a jar with flake food and tank water for a couple weeks before actually starting them on the tank. They're running in a TLF 150 reactor with 100mL of pellets on a 30g system. Nitrates were 5mg/L before starting with phosphates detectable but not high (salifert kits). I kept some samples (0.3um filtered and unfiltered) at -20C that I'll run on an HPLC (IEX) when I get a chance to have more accurate results. All of a sudden this morning...huge bloom. Skimmate is white/pinkish and the LPS look somewhat closed up, while the SPS are open as usual. Fish have typical big appetites. The big difference? I added 1 gallon of natural sea water yesterday evening since we do NSW changes on our 90g system and I was too lazy to mix up 1 gallon of salt mix. I haven't used NSW on my tank in over a year and I'm starting to think that whatever strains that were dominant in my tank went through some sort of succession and new opportunistic strains took over. All speculation of course, but the timing was suspicious.

09/28/2010, 09:40 AM	#2862
bluereefs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Croatia,island Rab Posts: 2,092	Anen, is hard to explain in one post, I writed many post about experiment with bp in last few months in this thread. Many things with bp usage are now much more clear but they was not clear in the past. Shortly, I could not get bp to work in standard fluid reactor but I could get them to work in my diy reactor, 2 things are unusual here, first there are no big diference betwen standard fluid reactor and my diy reactor, and second, standard fluid reactor who was not working in my case after I sold him work quite good in other aquarium. For some unknowen reason bp do not wont to work always, and is not related with anything specific (for example high phosphate/ no phosphate, high nitrates/low nitrates, artifical seawater/natural sea water... etc) After I get them to work in my diy reactor they actuall start to work too explosivly creating bacterial bloom almost instantly in various aquarium where I use them. So I come to solution and that is starting with very low amount of bp, in my case 100 ml per 150 gallons of aquarium capacity and toping each week or two with another 100 ml until I come to amount what remove nitrates but dont create bacterial bloom. In my case 500 ml was working amount.

09/28/2010, 10:29 AM	#2866
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Doing this may help reduce the chances of bacterial blooms as well. IMHO, it is worth experimenting with to see if money can be saved regarding the amount of these expensive pellets you need to use. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

09/28/2010, 11:38 AM	#2867
bluereefs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Croatia,island Rab Posts: 2,092	HighlandReefer , I follow your thread about PCL patent/pellets, is quite interesting. From that thread most interesting part ( if I get that corectly) is that grounding pellets made the best results?? So maybe I will ground some pellets and drop them in one aquarium too se the results. I do not have high nitrate anymore so dont know how to measue succes or not succes, but algae growths on the glass as well as complete aquarium look can give a hint if that work or not. Regarding mixing bp with coral sand/gravel (4-6 mm) in reactor I can try that with my third aquarium where is still fluid reactor with bio pellets who do not wont to work as they should. Will post my experiment after I start them in this thread.

09/28/2010, 11:55 AM	#2868
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Sounds good to me either or both ways you choose to try. You do seem to have a good success rate & a good handle when using these pellets. I would definitely be interested in any results you discover. Personally it would be nice to start your own thread to help segregate things out from this very long thread, which gets very confusing. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

09/28/2010, 11:57 AM	#2869
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Yes, when ground pellets into a powder were dosed to a tank it seemed to work great. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

09/28/2010, 12:35 PM	#2873
holdyourlight Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 984	please help if you can: Here are my tank specs: 120g starphire, 72x18x22, super reef octopus 3000sss skimmer running @ 6.5" depth, 30g sump, running carbon, gfo, 500ml biopellets, cheato, 2 vortechs for flow, 13 small fish, 1 torch coral for the clowns to host (havent added any coral yet) Here is the chain of events: 8/20: tank was set-up. already established rock and sand so very minimal cycle occured. 8/22: started biopellets 8/24: bacteria cloud-skimmer going crazy 8/28: bacteria cloud gone skimmer working normal 9/6: tank is cloudy again 9/14: cloudiness not going away so removed 1/2 of biopellets 9/17: tank clears up 9/20: skimmer stops producing foam 9/22: removed all of biopellets 9/26: tank is cloudy again, no biopellets and skimmer still will not produce foam just tested the parms @ lunch sp grav: 1.025 temp:79 cal:460 alk:9.2 mag:1375 ph:8.2 nitrates:0 phos:0 SO CONFUSED, any insight/ideas/solutions for getting the skimmer to work and making the cloudiness go away is greatly appreciated!

09/28/2010, 01:10 PM	#2875
bluereefs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Croatia,island Rab Posts: 2,092	holdyourlight, you have very unusual situation, never come acros similar issue, everytime after the bp are removed cloudines alse disapear in next day or two. I do have serious cloudines in the past during bacterial bloom but after I remove the bp cloudines disapear. Also my skimmers working very strong during all bacterial bloom and they stabilize/back to normal after cloudines disapear. Dont get it why your skimmer do not wont to work and even less I understend how you get bacterial bloom 4 days after you remove the bio pellets??? BTW I use reef octopus super skimmers as well, big 5000/6000 internal model in all aquariums. Do you maybe use garlic with fish food as a parasite prevention?