Kessil Club

[GardenVariety]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

I temp added t5's to my reef 8hrs/day, didnt notice much difference in coral health/growth either positive or negative, so took them down after 4 months .. but you will definitely get a washed out look if you add them to Kessils. They will reduce apparent shimmer.

Some people claim it is the ideal combo tho..

Yeah, I would just add more Kessils at different angles. It's the perfect look in my opinion and I wouldn't want to ruin it with T5's. Being careful with rockwork and coral placement is the most important part in my opinion.

[shred5]

Originally Posted by Bpb

I think it depends more on what kind of coral you’re keeping than anything.


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Agreed with LPS and softies that you would not need t-5 because they move with the current.

With SPS T-5 would be very beneficial. The Kessil have a very tight cluster and has more shadowing and self shading compared to other led fixtures. There is a advantage to the tight cluster is you do not get that disco ball effect with splotches of color.

I use T-5 lighting on my SPS tanks with Kessil. This almost gives me the look of halides with supplemental lighting. I tried straight up Kessils with SPS and it was fine while they were frags but once they grew into colonies I had to add T-5.

You could add more Kessil fixtures and add some at angles like was suggested too.

Personally I like the look of Kessil with led as much as halides with supplemental lighting.

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by shred5

Agreed with LPS and softies that you would not need t-5 because they move with the current.

With SPS T-5 would be very beneficial. The Kessil have a very tight cluster and has more shadowing and self shading compared to other led fixtures. There is a advantage to the tight cluster is you do not get that disco ball effect with splotches of color.

I use T-5 lighting on my SPS tanks with Kessil. This almost gives me the look of halides with supplemental lighting. I tried straight up Kessils with SPS and it was fine while they were frags but once they grew into colonies I had to add T-5.

You could add more Kessil fixtures and add some at angles like was suggested too.

Personally I like the look of Kessil with led as much as halides with supplemental lighting.

That’s precisely where I was going with that. Encrusting lps and softies or those that move around avoid shading by virtue of their physical form. A torch is moving so much it is constantly well lit all over. A favoa will hug the flat surface and not shade itself at all. A branching hard coral won’t move and a point source or light will simply not illuminate every angle of the coral leading to uneven color and growth form


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[ComforablyNumb]

In nature, the sun is a single point of light ..you will see some shading in nature too. Its entirely natural. If you like, you can recreate the moving of the sun across the sky if you have 2 or more kessils if you wish. I dont bother with that tho.. I just ramp up color and intensity and back down

[shred5]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

In nature, the sun is a single point of light ..you will see some shading in nature too. Its entirely natural. If you like, you can recreate the moving of the sun across the sky if you have 2 or more kessils if you wish. I dont bother with that tho.. I just ramp up color and intensity and back down

There is some shading but not even close to what happens with leds. First the sun move. It lights on side in the morning, then noon the top and then evening the other side. The same spot is not shaded all day. Plus the light from the sun is allot farther away and not as point source as led. The waves and the surface of the ocean refract, scatter and bend light.

[madweazl]

Originally Posted by makers marc

Any major difference between major vs minor diffuser kits?

And do they help light spillover I get from my AP700 x 2 into the room? That gets annoying, especially with kids who get the brunt of the spillover when they are close to the tank.

If light is spilling out of the tank, the array is mounted too high off the tank. Take advantage of the outstanding spread they offer and also take advantage of the extra light being reflected off the glass.

[makers marc]

Originally Posted by madweazl

If light is spilling out of the tank, the array is mounted too high off the tank. Take advantage of the outstanding spread they offer and also take advantage of the extra light being reflected off the glass.

That's a little oversimplification. 10 inches above the tank rim is not too high. The kessil mounting arm has slots for it to even go higher. You can literally sear acros with this, especially above 60%+.l placed nearby.

So you have to pick your poison.

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by shred5

There is some shading but not even close to what happens with leds.

Disagree. Being a diver for decades, I have seen shading of corals in nature and the undersides of most corals are naturally thinner with polyp density than the top, even those in direct sunlight. Its the same in my tank and its the same in nature. My reef has been running for over 3 years with only kessils. Shading is not a problem for me. If it were, I would have kept the t5's I ran for several months. I found them totally unnecessary, and I didnt like the flat appearance.

"First the sun move. It lights on side in the morning, then noon the top and then evening the other side " I can move the perceived point of light across my tank from left to right as well with my controller. The light is scattered the same way it is nature, via surface agitation. You will also experience natural scattering from reflections from the 4 glass panels and off the rockwork, etc. Like I said above, if shading were a problem for me (it isnt) I would have kept the t5's running.


"Plus the light from the sun is allot farther away and not as point source as led." That makes no difference in my opinion. If I move my lights up, I dont get less shading, I only get less intense light over all and less entering the tank.

"The waves and the surface of the ocean refract, scatter and bend light." I recreate that same refraction and scattering/concentration via surface agitation. Not sure what you mean by "bend". The surface agitation is what produces the shimmer. Take that agitation away, the light does not shimmer (or scatter/concentrate) the same way at all.

Here's a link to pictures of my mixed reef. As you can see, shading is not a problem at all for me:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...7#post25151157

Cheers.

[LobsterOfJustice]

You aren’t having issues because you are keeping soft corals. The analogy of a single kessil to the sun is not accurate for a number of reasons. There is 100% a shading issue with larger SPS colonies and kessils.


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[ComforablyNumb]

Here's a link to pictures of my mixed reef. As you can see, shading is not a problem at all for me:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...7#post25151157

Many more things in my tank than softies..did you look at the thread?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Looking at the most recent full tank shot in that thread, I literally can’t see any SPS. That’s not to say you don’t have some in there, but they must be small.

If you have SPS colonies big enough to be seen from across the room, you will have shading problems.




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[ComforablyNumb]

Oh for God's sake..photo evidence isnt good enough for you? You missed the blue stylo sps in the middle of the tank? It can easily be seen across the room, when it started out as a couple of 1" stick frags. Shading is not a problem for me or I would have left the t5's on my reef. Many of my sps frags are small and cannot be seen from across the room, they were tiny when I got them, but you see the growth evidence of them in the other thread.

one of 3 sps frags when I first got them

same frags later:



purple stylo sps frags when I first got them

same frags later



Show me where shading is a problem for me pls..

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by LobsterOfJustice

Looking at the most recent full tank shot in that thread, I literally can’t see any SPS. That’s not to say you don’t have some in there, but they must be small.

If you have SPS colonies big enough to be seen from across the room, you will have shading problems.




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Sps heavy tank. 4’ tank run solely on 1 AP700. Everything grown from frags.












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[smatter]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Oh for God's sake..photo evidence isnt good enough for you? You missed the blue stylo sps in the middle of tank? It can easily be seen across the room, when it started out as a 1" stick frag. Shading is not a problem for me or I would have left the t5's on on reef. Many of my sps frags cannot be seen from across the room, they were tiny when I got them, but you see the growth evidence of them in the other thread.

Next he's gonna say those are "easy" acros

Nice tank mfaso24!

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by smatter

Next he's gonna say those are "easy" acros



Nice tank mfaso24!

Lol I mean do I have shading? Yes, of course. You’re going to have some degree of shading regardless. Obviously t5s offer more spread due to the physics on the light source.
Do I have a “shading issue”? Well I don’t know. I guess that depends on your definition of what is an issue.


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[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

Lol I mean do I have shading? Yes, of course. You’re going to have some degree of shading regardless. Obviously t5s offer more spread due to the physics on the light source.
Do I have a “shading issue”? Well I don’t know. I guess that depends on your definition of what is an issue.

I think its also important to note that for an sps dominant tank of this size, they say I should have 2 AP700s which obviously would reduce any shading there currently is.

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[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by smatter

Next he's gonna say those are "easy" acros

They are somewhat easy, I certainly found them so ..grow very well and are quite healthy. Grown under 2 kessil a360's only. I think there may be a myth about shading being a huge problem with Kessils, hasnt been my experience at all.

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

Do I have a “shading issue”? Well I don’t know. I guess that depends on your definition of what is an issue.


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I see no problem at all with shading in your aquarium either. Its very nice and the corals all very healthy looking.

[ComforablyNumb]

My next upgrade will be to a ap700 ..but the ole 360's seem to be doing the job in the meantime.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Glad things are working for you two and you are happy with your results. Like you, I am sharing MY experiences. I have 3x A360 over a 180g reef. I know this is half the number of units recommended but the light budget wasn’t $2400 so 3 is what I get. I observed heavy direct shading from individual branches of large SPS overlapping. I am talking about SPS colonies too large to fit in a 5g bucket, not “colonies” with just a few branches that are a few inches long. I have 4x T5 “supplements” and I have also installed the kessils onto a light mover to reduce shading. I am certainly growing out corals just fine, but I have taken multiple steps to reduce the stagnant shadows cast from upper branches onto lower branches which leads to color and eventually tissue loss. The reason I have “supplement” in quotes is that I notice that my daily light cycle pH shift coincides with the T5 schedule, not the kessil cycle, so I believe most of my photosynthesis is occurring thanks to the T5s.


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[WVfishguy]

Well, ComforablyNumb, I hope you are happy. I lost control of my bladder when I saw your tank. What a mess, pee everywhere. Your fault! Of course, at my age, this happens pretty regularly, but I'm going to blame you anyway. Anyway, I'm bidding on a a Kessil 360 WE for my 90, and I will get another ASAP for my 90. Thanks for the photos and for reinforcing my decision to go with Kessil.

[smatter]

Originally Posted by WVfishguy

Well, ComforablyNumb, I hope you are happy. I lost control of my bladder when I saw your tank. What a mess, pee everywhere. Your fault! Of course, at my age, this happens pretty regularly, but I'm going to blame you anyway. Anyway, I'm bidding on a a Kessil 360 WE for my 90, and I will get another ASAP for my 90. Thanks for the photos and for reinforcing my decision to go with Kessil.

[GardenVariety]

Here's my 7ft tank lit by 6 360WEs about 12" above the water. No problem with SPS, LPS or softies.

[smatter]

Looking good GardenVariety!

[GardenVariety]

Originally Posted by smatter

Looking good GardenVariety!

Thanks so much. It's been a long journey to this point.