N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

will the np pellets eventually starve out the byropsis?

Well, that depends - upon your definition of eventually...

1. How much crap is lockt in your rock.
2. What do you have that will clear the offensive perp (I've actually witnessed Mithrax crabs eating Bryopsis, and not die).
3. Can you effectively export the nutrients fueling the problem through skimming (this is kinda critical, and really the premise upon which all of this revolves).
4. Test! Know thine enemy. Check everything. Leave no stone unturned. If PO4 is a problem, then address that problem with GFO (you get the idea). If nitrate is the problem, then yes 'eventually' the pellets will clear the problem.

DJ

[mavjoy]

I've been using WM bio-pellets for about 19 days now never had a bacterial bloom or cloudy water. I'm running 250ml in my dual BRS reactor along side with some GFC. I was using GFO before I started the pellets. I got the rector pump, mj1200, near my drain, which is also the same place where my skimmer. I got the output going near my skimmer pump. Should I have the reactor pump somewhere else?

Not much algae build up on the glass and water looks very clear but majority of my SPS have less or no PE at all. Noticed this since I took the GFO offline and replaced it with pellets. I'm hoping that my stix are just adjusting and eventually get their PE back. My LPS are all doing great tho.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Well, that depends - upon your definition of eventually...

1. How much crap is lockt in your rock.
2. What do you have that will clear the offensive perp (I've actually witnessed Mithrax crabs eating Bryopsis, and not die).
3. Can you effectively export the nutrients fueling the problem through skimming (this is kinda critical, and really the premise upon which all of this revolves).
4. Test! Know thine enemy. Check everything. Leave no stone unturned. If PO4 is a problem, then address that problem with GFO (you get the idea). If nitrate is the problem, then yes 'eventually' the pellets will clear the problem.

DJ

good points DJ--thanks
If I am buying time for the np pellets to take over the control of nitrates and phosphates then might it be wise to up the magnesium level to 1600 ppm

[bluereefs]

Update of my bio pellets aquarium, more or less everything is the same, nitrates very low aprox 0,5-1 mg/lit, very heavy feeding.
Here is the video of feeding with my diy food, aprox 2-3 times daily I feed like that, video is made with fourth cube of food that day so fish was not so eager.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJN4i...layer_embedded

Interesting observation what I get from this experiment, I have 2 small patches of bryopsis at the top of reef ceramic, very small algae colony. They are absolutly the same size and growth with the nitrates at 100 mg/lit and with nitrates as are latelly: 0,2-1 mg/lit.
Also colour of my corals are more or less the same, with 100 mg/lit nitrates and with 0,2-1 mg/lit.

Only drastic changes I noticed when I get first bacterial bloom few months ago what wiped out all algae and slightly colour some of my sps corals, that bacterial bloom wiped out all organic very fast, even my sand get clear because bloom wiped out detritus and algae from the sand.

Besides that drastic changes during bacterial bloom my aquarium are more or less the same with nitrates high as 100 mg/lit or 1 mg/lit. Of course I can feed more, aquarium look more healthy, maybe some corals grow litlle faster but in visual apearance nothing is changed. Nitrates itself probably dont have so big efect in aquarium, other issue what are related or cause of high nitrates have probably much more efect of coral colour and algae then nitrates.

Also at the plastic pieces (powerhead body) I get much more algae now with hundreds time less nitrates then what I had with high nitrates, not a big issue but is interesting to find that at 100 mg nitrates I have mostly coraline algae on powerhead and now with 0,5-1 mg nitrates I have hair algae.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Update of my bio pellets aquarium, more or less everything is the same, nitrates very low aprox 0,5-1 mg/lit, very heavy feeding.
Here is the video of feeding with my diy food, aprox 2-3 times daily I feed like that, video is made with fourth cube of food that day so fish was not so eager.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJN4i...layer_embedded

Interesting observation what I get from this experiment, I have 2 small patches of bryopsis at the top of reef ceramic, very small algae colony. They are absolutly the same size and growth with the nitrates at 100 mg/lit and with nitrates as are latelly: 0,2-1 mg/lit.
Also colour of my corals are more or less the same, with 100 mg/lit nitrates and with 0,2-1 mg/lit.

Only drastic changes I noticed when I get first bacterial bloom few months ago what wiped out all algae and slightly colour some of my sps corals, that bacterial bloom wiped out all organic very fast, even my sand get clear because bloom wiped out detritus and algae from the sand.

Besides that drastic changes during bacterial bloom my aquarium are more or less the same with nitrates high as 100 mg/lit or 1 mg/lit. Of course I can feed more, aquarium look more healthy, maybe some corals grow litlle faster but in visual apearance nothing is changed. Nitrates itself probably dont have so big efect in aquarium, other issue what are related or cause of high nitrates have probably much more efect of coral colour and algae then nitrates.

Also at the plastic pieces (powerhead body) I get much more algae now with hundreds time less nitrates then what I had with high nitrates, not a big issue but is interesting to find that at 100 mg nitrates I have mostly coraline algae on powerhead and now with 0,5-1 mg nitrates I have hair algae.

Bluereefs,I think the explanation of this is very similar to the one the guys gave me on the previous page of posts

[Aquarist007]

Reading between the lines of the replies I got from this thread:

"I have been running the np pellets on 4 different systems for about 5 weeks
In all the tanks I have noticed an immediate clarity in thee water and the corals extending their polyps
However in one tank, soon after installing the np pellets in a phosban reactor i had a huge breakout of bryopsis on the reef rock and on all the equipment,

Although some of the bryopsis has been reduced it is still very privelent in this tank.
Has any one else experienced this problem "

"Scott, NO3 won't hang around in the rock like PO4 will.
Perhaps the extra organic carbon and/ or bacterial activity advantage the bryopsis or possibly a reduction in NO3 and PO4 caused some PO4 to leach back from the rock locally giving the edge to the bryopsis . Hard to say. Green algae including bryospis is limited by PO4 of less than 0.03ppm which may be difficult to achie ve with just the pellets and no gfo or other binders. Even then some algae may be able to grab organic forms of PO4.
"
TMZ
"My suspicion would be that there was a nutrient competition occurring with other alga in the system that kept the Bryopsis in check. Once the limiting nutrients for these more efficient organisms were stripped from he system the Bryopsis then got the upper hand. I believe that this might also be what's happening to a lot of folks who are having cyano issues after the introduction of biopellet media, and subsequent mass die off of competing flora.

DJ

I am beginning to feel that the np pellets are only effective for the reduction of nitrates. So replacing the phosban or similar media with the np pellets might not be the best way to go.
On the system that all the bryopsis has broken out in, I did remove a cannister filter. The cannister filter was maintained once a month by changing the carbon material and the phosban material. Shortly after the cannister was replaced with the reactor and np pellets the bryopsis broke out and has continued.
I know one should be running carbon also but phosban too. I have a problem with this especially in tanks which do not have a sump.
Take for eg in this 65 gal---there is a remora hob, two k4's, a heater, and a np (two little fishes) reactor hanging about
Now to add a carbon reactor and a phosban reactor too---that would be a hard sell to any of my clients.


The product is advertised as being the primary means of filtration in a system
Now in case of a sump I could see you running three reactors--phosban, carbon and np pellets IF you are plagued with high nitrates and phosphates even running the carbon and phosban

In the case of a sump and refugium if you still have nitrates and phosphates then you should look elsewhere for the reason or where you are importing them.

In both cases if you want corals to pop and be colourful then the jury is still hung on this one.

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

Reading between the lines of the replies I got from this thread:

"I have been running the np pellets on 4 different systems for about 5 weeks
In all the tanks I have noticed an immediate clarity in thee water and the corals extending their polyps
However in one tank, soon after installing the np pellets in a phosban reactor i had a huge breakout of bryopsis on the reef rock and on all the equipment,

Although some of the bryopsis has been reduced it is still very privelent in this tank.
Has any one else experienced this problem "

"Scott, NO3 won't hang around in the rock like PO4 will.
Perhaps the extra organic carbon and/ or bacterial activity advantage the bryopsis or possibly a reduction in NO3 and PO4 caused some PO4 to leach back from the rock locally giving the edge to the bryopsis . Hard to say. Green algae including bryospis is limited by PO4 of less than 0.03ppm which may be difficult to achie ve with just the pellets and no gfo or other binders. Even then some algae may be able to grab organic forms of PO4.
"
TMZ
"My suspicion would be that there was a nutrient competition occurring with other alga in the system that kept the Bryopsis in check. Once the limiting nutrients for these more efficient organisms were stripped from he system the Bryopsis then got the upper hand. I believe that this might also be what's happening to a lot of folks who are having cyano issues after the introduction of biopellet media, and subsequent mass die off of competing flora.

DJ

I am beginning to feel that the np pellets are only effective for the reduction of nitrates. So replacing the phosban or similar media with the np pellets might not be the best way to go.
On the system that all the bryopsis has broken out in, I did remove a cannister filter. The cannister filter was maintained once a month by changing the carbon material and the phosban material. Shortly after the cannister was replaced with the reactor and np pellets the bryopsis broke out and has continued.
I know one should be running carbon also but phosban too. I have a problem with this especially in tanks which do not have a sump.
Take for eg in this 65 gal---there is a remora hob, two k4's, a heater, and a np (two little fishes) reactor hanging about
Now to add a carbon reactor and a phosban reactor too---that would be a hard sell to any of my clients.


The product is advertised as being the primary means of filtration in a system
Now in case of a sump I could see you running three reactors--phosban, carbon and np pellets IF you are plagued with high nitrates and phosphates even running the carbon and phosban

In the case of a sump and refugium if you still have nitrates and phosphates then you should look elsewhere for the reason or where you are importing them.

In both cases if you want corals to pop and be colourful then the jury is still hung on this one.

Yea, truthfully I've never looked at bps as being an effective PO4 eliminator, at least not in my system. I know folks have had luck with it doing just that. I've continued on with GFO even after NO3 dropped to below 5ppm, but then my bioload is freakishly high.

DJ

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Yea, truthfully I've never looked at bps as being an effective PO4 eliminator, at least not in my system. I know folks have had luck with it doing just that. I've continued on with GFO even after NO3 dropped to below 5ppm, but then my bioload is freakishly high.

DJ

then for tanks without a sump you might be better running a cannister filter with carbon ad gfo and use the hob reactor for the np pellets.

[ryanuuy]

Okay so i installed the c02 scrubber as tmz suggested on this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=co2+scrubber

Im waiting to see if it has any effects on my ph. As of today, i think i saw my ph go a bit over 8 on my ph pen but then it went back down to 7.9. Does anyone have any idea how long till the scrubber takes effect? Im also going to be upgrading my skimmer 2 weeks from now and hopefully that helps the problem as well with all the added airflow. Right now im using a reefmaniacs beckett skimmer but ill be upgrading to super reef octo xp 3000 ext.

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

then for tanks without a sump you might be better running a cannister filter with carbon ad gfo and use the hob reactor for the np pellets.

Hell, I just keep a bag full in the overflow. As long as water flows through it, it still works.

DJ

[Aquarist007]

I added the np pellets to my system yesterday. It has two refugiums, remote deep sand beds, running carbon and a msx250 skimmer. The flow in the tank is around 5000 gal per hour. I am just noticing the water turning slightly cloudy(bacterial bloom)
The tank has not problem with oxygen exchange so should I just let the bacterial bloom go on or cut back the flow through the np pellets reactor?

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

I added the np pellets to my system yesterday. It has two refugiums, remote deep sand beds, running carbon and a msx250 skimmer. The flow in the tank is around 5000 gal per hour. I am just noticing the water turning slightly cloudy(bacterial bloom)
The tank has not problem with oxygen exchange so should I just let the bacterial bloom go on or cut back the flow through the np pellets reactor?

Crack tha winda, an let er go capn!!!!

Oh wait, you're in Canada - 86 cracking the windows...and keep an eye on the MSX - it's gonna go nuts in a few days

DJ

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Crack tha winda, an let er go capn!!!!

Oh wait, you're in Canada - 86 cracking the windows...and keep an eye on the MSX - it's gonna go nuts in a few days

DJ

thanks again DJ

[goochesfish]

I started with a 500 ml package for my 150g tank. Although, at the time, nitrates were .2 and phosphates zero, I still had tufts of hair algae.
My skimmer initially dropped it's foam head and took a week to recover. I think I didn't rinse out the new reactor well enough of it's manufacturing products or I didn't soak the pellets enough.

Now nitrates and phosphates are zero (I've continued to run rowaphos and carbon) and I have zero hair algae. I developed cyan in 2 small patches and some on the back glass. My cheato in the sump grows well. I started dozing 15cc/week of MB7 2 weeks ago to see if it would help.

I want to know if I should increase the amount of BP or leave it at 500?

Is a tank really supposed to be 100 % free of all algae and cyanobacteria?

[goochesfish]

I also never got a bacteria bloom.

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by goochesfish

I started with a 500 ml package for my 150g tank. Although, at the time, nitrates were .2 and phosphates zero, I still had tufts of hair algae.
My skimmer initially dropped it's foam head and took a week to recover. I think I didn't rinse out the new reactor well enough of it's manufacturing products or I didn't soak the pellets enough.

Now nitrates and phosphates are zero (I've continued to run rowaphos and carbon) and I have zero hair algae. I developed cyan in 2 small patches and some on the back glass. My cheato in the sump grows well. I started dozing 15cc/week of MB7 2 weeks ago to see if it would help.

I want to know if I should increase the amount of BP or leave it at 500?

Is a tank really supposed to be 100 % free of all algae and cyanobacteria?

Pick up a few extra hermit crabs and snails. You need something to consume what's in there.

DJ

[sergiozaher]

hI,
dO YOU THINK IT"S POSSIBLE USE bIOPELLETS WITH BB AQUARIUM

tHANKS

[goochesfish]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Pick up a few extra hermit crabs and snails. You need something to consume what's in there.

DJ

Is there something that eats Cyanobacteri?

[tmz]

Originally Posted by sergiozaher

hI,
dO YOU THINK IT"S POSSIBLE USE bIOPELLETS WITH BB AQUARIUM

tHANKS

Yes.

[fuzzyfred101]

Hey have do you guys have a fav bio pellet or do they all seem equal. i carbon dose now but this seems so much easyer and more of a constant carbon source

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by goochesfish

Is there something that eats Cyanobacteri?

That's the problem with cyano, it's kinda toxic when consumed in large quantities. Cerith snails will eat some. I've witnessed large turbos eating it (prob overkill for what you need) and sea hare's will (once again probably overkill).

DJ

[ryanuuy]

Does anyone else have any ideas on how to increase PH without touching alk or is adding more o2 the only other way? So far, the co2 scrubber hasnt made any significant effects and im worried that the lower ph will start affecting my livestock soon. Im going to try adding an airstone later to my sump as well and hopefully that will do the trick till i can get my hands on a larger skimmer. The effluent of my reactor is already pointed to the direction of my skimmer chamber.

[bagz727]

Originally Posted by ryanuuy

Does anyone else have any ideas on how to increase PH without touching alk or is adding more o2 the only other way? So far, the co2 scrubber hasnt made any significant effects and im worried that the lower ph will start affecting my livestock soon. Im going to try adding an airstone later to my sump as well and hopefully that will do the trick till i can get my hands on a larger skimmer. The effluent of my reactor is already pointed to the direction of my skimmer chamber.

try aiming a fan on the water surface of your tank or sump!

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by ryanuuy

Does anyone else have any ideas on how to increase PH without touching alk or is adding more o2 the only other way? So far, the co2 scrubber hasnt made any significant effects and im worried that the lower ph will start affecting my livestock soon. Im going to try adding an airstone later to my sump as well and hopefully that will do the trick till i can get my hands on a larger skimmer. The effluent of my reactor is already pointed to the direction of my skimmer chamber.

Pull the air for the skimmer from outside your stand - you may need to run a tube. Crack a nearby window in the house if it isn't too cold.

DJ

[zygote2k]

I use Polycaprolactone pellets in a mesh bag and some in a fluidized bed on my skimmerless SPS system. After a month of using them in the mesh bag and dosing MB7, I developed a huge cyano bloom that lasted for nearly 3 months. After using the fluidized bed, the cyano has been dying off and is only in small patches where there is little current. I stopped using GFO during the cyano bloom because the chaeto in the fuge stopped growing. I now have a healthy fuge and many places on the rocks have sprouted various types of macroalgae. When I initially started using the pellets, my N03 was about 35ppm, it is now less than 8 ppm.