The T5 Q&a Thread - split

[wantsalotta]

8 bulb sunpower. 24" deep tank. 6 month old fixture. newish bulbs. 8" off the water. Mostly zoas/palys. some lps, couple montis. New batch of florida rics are not happy unless partially shaded.

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by wantsalotta

I've got too much light! Some of my corals are not happy, I have an 8 bulb ati fixture, I would like to reduce the par output out of it. my current setup it
blue +
coral +
actinic
b+
purple +
actinic
b+
coral +

what swapping out can I do to lower par values? I have a few ab special, actinic, c+, p+, b+ available to change some out. Thanks for any help

So far good poimts. What is your photo period now between dawn to dusk and mid-day would be my first point of attacking this. Which bulbs do you have on each circuit?

A possible fix might be just putting a blue and atinic on your Dawn to Dusk then shortening the tme on your midday if your fixture is a 2 bulb/6 bulb combo. If it is a 4/4 combo then the 2 Blues and 2 Atinics on the Dawn to Dusk with a shorter time period for the rest of the middays again.

Looking at your note though I'm afraid you might hit the ont where you either make your Ricks or your Monti's happy. Are your Ric's on the bottom of the tank and the Monti's near the top? And yes sometimes you can corals grow beautifully in the shaded areas Duncans are known for this as an example.

[Michigan Mike]

Originally Posted by wantsalotta

8 bulb sunpower. 24" deep tank. 6 month old fixture. newish bulbs. 8" off the water. Mostly zoas/palys. some lps, couple montis. New batch of florida rics are not happy unless partially shaded.

Sounds like you need to move them to the sandbed and on the far ends.
Raise the fixture and shorten light period also.

[wantsalotta]

I may just run 6 bulbs for a few weeks until they settle in. the rics are in corners on the sand, One of the montis is happiest on the sand. Two actinics are on 8 hours, main lighting is 6 hours, with an hour of actinic on each end for dawn/dusk.

The funny thing is, my ORA Duncan is 2/3 up the tank in the center.

I put in a purple plus in the middle, it appears to have less useable light. I'll probably swap out a coral plus for another actinic. coral plus looks pretty bright. Light spill is borderline annoying now, I just raised the fixture an inch or two for the new arrivals two weeks ago, I don't want to go any higher if avoidable.

[SneekaPeek]

Hello everyone,

Im running a 6 bulb fixture with the following combo
Front to back:
actinic+
lagoon blue
actinic+
actinic+
Fiji Purple
actinic+

My question: If I was to take out an actinic+ and run a true actinic bulb, would this help with my coral color? PAR is not an issue. I ask this because in new LED fixtures (IE Maxspect), running actinic diodes helps with photosynthesis and color.
I would like my coral to have full spectrum lighting. What is your take on this issue/ debate im having?

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by SneekaPeek

Hello everyone,

Im running a 6 bulb fixture with the following combo
Front to back:
actinic+
lagoon blue
actinic+
actinic+
Fiji Purple
actinic+

My question: If I was to take out an actinic+ and run a true actinic bulb, would this help with my coral color? PAR is not an issue. I ask this because in new LED fixtures (IE Maxspect), running actinic diodes helps with photosynthesis and color.
I would like my coral to have full spectrum lighting. What is your take on this issue/ debate im having?

There is already a ton of full spectrum in your lighting.

LED companies had to add the violet LEDs because blue LEDs don't contain the lower end of the spectrum.

T5s don't have this issue.

[Michigan Mike]

Originally Posted by SneekaPeek

Hello everyone,

Im running a 6 bulb fixture with the following combo
Front to back:
actinic+
lagoon blue
actinic+
actinic+
Fiji Purple
actinic+

My question: If I was to take out an actinic+ and run a true actinic bulb, would this help with my coral color? PAR is not an issue. I ask this because in new LED fixtures (IE Maxspect), running actinic diodes helps with photosynthesis and color.
I would like my coral to have full spectrum lighting. What is your take on this issue/ debate im having?

Sure you can swap out an actinic plus for a true actinic, GIESSEMAN has a great true actinic bulb.

How do you like the lagoon blue bulb?

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by SneekaPeek

Hello everyone,

Im running a 6 bulb fixture with the following combo
Front to back:
actinic+
lagoon blue
actinic+
actinic+
Fiji Purple
actinic+

My question: If I was to take out an actinic+ and run a true actinic bulb, would this help with my coral color? PAR is not an issue. I ask this because in new LED fixtures (IE Maxspect), running actinic diodes helps with photosynthesis and color.
I would like my coral to have full spectrum lighting. What is your take on this issue/ debate im having?

There is no hard definition of what makes ATinic light. The true reference of Atinic dirives from photography and referers to light that is most sensative to Black and White Film mainly light in wavelenghts between 380nm and 540 nm. It is also refered to in medicine as light which can cause some people skin to react mainly anything under 440nm. In aquariums it is used loosly to indicate in the range of 420nm to 460 nm. There are both 460 nm and 420 nm Atinic bulbs for aquariums as well as the Atinic plus bulbs that are either a combination of the Atinic light and either full range or wider blue ranged bulbs.

In the reef tank roughly 85% of the photosynthesis occurs from light between 430nm and 460 nm. Roughly 90% occurs from light between 420 nm and 500nm. And 99.9% usiors from light between 380nm and 620nm. But each coral is different and and some only require light at one or two specific wavelenght and others can be harmed by excessive light in specific wavelenghts. The most dangerious wave lenghts to some corals are in the range of both 380nm and in the range of 680 nm.

Coral color comes from two things. That is florescense and reflective color. With florescense a coral absorbs light at a set wave lenght that activates chemicals in the coral to transmit light another wave lenght. In most cases this is taking a wave lenght of light that is readily available to the coral especialy in the blue parts of the spectrum and converts it to a wavelenght that the coral can use for photosynthesis. In refelective color the coral takes the wave lenghts that it cannot utalize and reflects them back at us.
Since corals contain both properties by increasing "Atinic" light you increase the florescense but decrease the reflective colors of the corals. Simularly with full spectrum lighting you increase the reflective color and decrease the florescense.

With LED lighting the specific colored LED's have a very narrow spectrum compared to florescent bulbs. If a LED is rated at 460 nm in it producing near zero light at 450nm or 470 nm while the florescent light might still be strong at 430nm and 500nm.. So to cover the blue spectrum better in LED's a combination of 430 nm, 454nm and 460 nm is usualy used where in a florescent fixture one 460 nm "atinic" bulb will do the job.

In your case I would try using an ATI Blue plus to replace some of your atinic plus bulbs. This will widen the blue spectrum of your lighting giving light to more of the florescent pigments. If you want to bring out the reflective colors better also add a full spectrumed bulb.

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by wantsalotta

I may just run 6 bulbs for a few weeks until they settle in. the rics are in corners on the sand, One of the montis is happiest on the sand. Two actinics are on 8 hours, main lighting is 6 hours, with an hour of actinic on each end for dawn/dusk.

The funny thing is, my ORA Duncan is 2/3 up the tank in the center.

I put in a purple plus in the middle, it appears to have less useable light. I'll probably swap out a coral plus for another actinic. coral plus looks pretty bright. Light spill is borderline annoying now, I just raised the fixture an inch or two for the new arrivals two weeks ago, I don't want to go any higher if avoidable.

On thing I have never tried but heard other were suscefful with was adding a none metalic windw screening clothe between the light fixture and the tank. This suposedly slighly reduces the light by filtering some of it out.

[Michigan Mike]

Originally Posted by TropTrea

In your case I would try using an ATI Blue plus to replace some of your atinic plus bulbs. This will widen the blue spectrum of your lighting giving light to more of the florescent pigments. If you want to bring out the reflective colors better also add a full spectrumed bulb.

Why? he wants more actinic spectrum not more blue. The actinic p,us has a wider spectrum than the blue plus.

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-actinic-...t-gsm0017.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/39w-blue-plu...t-ati1111.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-pure-act...t-gsm0025.html

I say you have more 400nm than us with blue plus bulbs already but why not try a pure actinic for yourself and see how you like it, most of us have gone back to using a actinic bulb in the mix & like it (blue plus is missing this unlike your actinic plus) if you have enough PAR already why not get a little better color & the low 400nm that is missing with ATI blue plus bulbs.

[SneekaPeek]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

Sure you can swap out an actinic plus for a true actinic, GIESSEMAN has a great true actinic bulb.

How do you like the lagoon blue bulb?

Love it, I find it very appealing! it seems awfully close to a kz new gen, but a little more blue.

[SneekaPeek]

Originally Posted by TropTrea

There is no hard definition of what makes ATinic light. The true reference of Atinic dirives from photography and referers to light that is most sensative to Black and White Film mainly light in wavelenghts between 380nm and 540 nm. It is also refered to in medicine as light which can cause some people skin to react mainly anything under 440nm. In aquariums it is used loosly to indicate in the range of 420nm to 460 nm. There are both 460 nm and 420 nm Atinic bulbs for aquariums as well as the Atinic plus bulbs that are either a combination of the Atinic light and either full range or wider blue ranged bulbs.

In the reef tank roughly 85% of the photosynthesis occurs from light between 430nm and 460 nm. Roughly 90% occurs from light between 420 nm and 500nm. And 99.9% usiors from light between 380nm and 620nm. But each coral is different and and some only require light at one or two specific wavelenght and others can be harmed by excessive light in specific wavelenghts. The most dangerious wave lenghts to some corals are in the range of both 380nm and in the range of 680 nm.

Coral color comes from two things. That is florescense and reflective color. With florescense a coral absorbs light at a set wave lenght that activates chemicals in the coral to transmit light another wave lenght. In most cases this is taking a wave lenght of light that is readily available to the coral especialy in the blue parts of the spectrum and converts it to a wavelenght that the coral can use for photosynthesis. In refelective color the coral takes the wave lenghts that it cannot utalize and reflects them back at us.
Since corals contain both properties by increasing "Atinic" light you increase the florescense but decrease the reflective colors of the corals. Simularly with full spectrum lighting you increase the reflective color and decrease the florescense.

With LED lighting the specific colored LED's have a very narrow spectrum compared to florescent bulbs. If a LED is rated at 460 nm in it producing near zero light at 450nm or 470 nm while the florescent light might still be strong at 430nm and 500nm.. So to cover the blue spectrum better in LED's a combination of 430 nm, 454nm and 460 nm is usualy used where in a florescent fixture one 460 nm "atinic" bulb will do the job.

In your case I would try using an ATI Blue plus to replace some of your atinic plus bulbs. This will widen the blue spectrum of your lighting giving light to more of the florescent pigments. If you want to bring out the reflective colors better also add a full spectrumed bulb.

Thanks for help!

[SneekaPeek]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

Why? he wants more actinic spectrum not more blue. The actinic p,us has a wider spectrum than the blue plus.

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-actinic-...t-gsm0017.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/39w-blue-plu...t-ati1111.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-pure-act...t-gsm0025.html

I say you have more 400nm than us with blue plus bulbs already but why not try a pure actinic for yourself and see how you like it, most of us have gone back to using a actinic bulb in the mix & like it (blue plus is missing this unlike your actinic plus) if you have enough PAR already why not get a little better color & the low 400nm that is missing with ATI blue plus bulbs.

PAR is not a problem because I have a near shallow tank! My corals are actually bleaching quite a bit sitting on the bottom of the tank. I changed an actinic+ for a true actinic last night and I definitely like the look a lot better. I hope corals react well!

[SneekaPeek]

Originally Posted by rtparty

There is already a ton of full spectrum in your lighting.

LED companies had to add the violet LEDs because blue LEDs don't contain the lower end of the spectrum.

T5s don't have this issue.

Thanks for your input!

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

Why? he wants more actinic spectrum not more blue. The actinic p,us has a wider spectrum than the blue plus.

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-actinic-...t-gsm0017.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/39w-blue-plu...t-ati1111.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/24w-pure-act...t-gsm0025.html

I say you have more 400nm than us with blue plus bulbs already but why not try a pure actinic for yourself and see how you like it, most of us have gone back to using a actinic bulb in the mix & like it (blue plus is missing this unlike your actinic plus) if you have enough PAR already why not get a little better color & the low 400nm that is missing with ATI blue plus bulbs.

Actualy there a dozen different Atinic out there. The Geisman bulbs that you linked to do have a wider spectrum however the ATI Atinic is not producing much light over 450 or under 410 with a peak suposedly at 421. Look at the UL ATinic and it peaks at 420 nm and produces very littlle over 450nm or under 400nm. The Atinic White from UL is basicly a 50/50 split between a full spectrum and an "Atinic". I have had many of these and believe me it is a white bulb compared to the ATI Blue Plus and anything else other than some full spectrum only bulbs.

If you go back to his original message he wants to enhance more of the colors in his corals by increasing atinics. With 4 atinic bulbs now out of 6, I think he would see a drastic loss in the reflective colors in his tank. Most Atinics concentrate there light at 420 nm. The florescent colors are excited by numerious different frequencies depending on the individual coral.

He also compared it to LED lighting. But we need to remember when we put in a 454nm Blue LED 50% of the light is 452 and 456 nm. So they add the 430 nm LED's to fill in that bottom. They usualy also add 460 nm LED's and even 490nm LEDs to balance out the blue specttrum the best they can.

You are not going to duplicate the blue or atinic spectrum LED's can produce with T-5's neither can you duplicate the spectrum you get with T-5's using LED's. They both have there advantages and disadvantages.

Believe me I have been trying to play with LED's and T-5 to try to duplicate there spectum and no combination of one can duplicate the spectrum of the other unless you get in specialized LED's presently not available to the public.

[Michigan Mike]

Originally Posted by TropTrea

If you go back to his original message he wants to enhance more of the colors in his corals by increasing atinics. With 4 atinic bulbs now out of 6, I think he would see a drastic loss in the reflective colors in his tank. Most Atinics concentrate there light at 420 nm. The florescent colors are excited by numerious different frequencies depending on the individual coral.
.

The actinic plus is basically GIESSEMAN's "blue plus" , they aren't pure/true actinic. They have plenty of PAR (not as much as ATI blue plus) but a little more low-end violet.

Originally Posted by SneekaPeek

PAR is not a problem because I have a near shallow tank! My corals are actually bleaching quite a bit sitting on the bottom of the tank. I changed an actinic+ for a true actinic last night and I definitely like the look a lot better. I hope corals react well!

If you like one pure actinic & you want to lower the intensity a little more add another pure actinic.

So do you like the lagoon blue bulb?

[rtparty]

Blue and actinic are different.

Blue equals light found around 460nm. +-20nm.

Actinic is a bulb that spikes at 420nm. +-5nm.

The actinic white is not an actinic bulb. It contains "actinic" light but overall is a pink bulb as you know. Before the purple bulbs got big, we were using this to enhance pinks.

The actinic plus from Geisemann is not an actinic bulb either. It is a blue bulb.

Lots of people still want to confuse blue and actinic. It's not that complicated.

[rbja]

Hi guys...

Two part question; I'm getting ready to buy a Atl Sunpower 8 bulb, for my dominated SPS 180 gallon tank, 3 coral plus and 5 blue plus. I'm trying to get more of a 20k look. What are your suggestions?

Right now I'm running three 250 watt XM 20k for 5 hours a day and supplements for 8 hours a day. What would you all suggest for the new light?

[TropTrea]

As I remember the XM 20K they are very Crisp light with a strong Blue element. True 20K lighting is probably very close to the ATI Blue Plus bulbs but the XM's are actualy slightly whiter. When you wsaid you also had splemental lighting to the XM's Im asuming you meant Atinic Lighting.

I would start out with the bulbs you are listing with the exception of changing one of the Coral Plus bulbs to an ATI Atininc.

[TropTrea]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Blue and actinic are different.

Blue equals light found around 460nm. +-20nm.

Actinic is a bulb that spikes at 420nm. +-5nm.

The actinic white is not an actinic bulb. It contains "actinic" light but overall is a pink bulb as you know. Before the purple bulbs got big, we were using this to enhance pinks.

The actinic plus from Geisemann is not an actinic bulb either. It is a blue bulb.

Lots of people still want to confuse blue and actinic. It's not that complicated.

I think we are cutting hairs here. The atinic white, blue plus, and atinic white are all combinations of atinic with other parts of the spectrum added in. Even if you took a pure atinic from numerious vendors you would find that there is is a lot of light produced that is not at 420 nm. This is a characteristic of all T-5 bulbs. The difference between them is the ratio of blue or white light to atininc light that is produced. In the so called pur Atinics it is probably close to 80% atinic while the other bulbs are in the 40% to 60% range.

As I played with getting a LEd combination I liked I had tried different "Atinic" LED's in different quantities and everything but the 430nm kicked the color a noticably strong pink. Even running 10 Watts of of the 430nm LED's gave a strong pink effect.

Yes in LED lighting many people add so called Atinic LED's usualy 430 nm LED's But look at the ratio they use them in. In my 40 gallon breeder I'm using 5 watts of 430 nm LED's, 30 Watts of 454 nm LED's, 5 Watts of 500 nm LED's 10 Watts of 460 nm LED's, 10 Watts of neutral white LED's. The lighting is much crisper than what I have with my tanks using T-5's. The florescense pops under these LED's much more than ever did under T-5's but the reflective colors on some corals are at a bare minimium.

Hopefully as the day progresses I'll post a couple pictures as ths LED tank is directly under my 120 Gallon tank with T-5's.

[TropTrea]

I found this chart on color temperature and think it is fairly good guide. While we look at color temperature as the ratio of blue to white light the difference in color temperature is more associated with the color than the actualy level of white. Actualy as the color temp gets higher away from around 4,000K there is more color in it, but the color shifts. In many cases I think what consider a 20,000K light is actualy beyound the infinate point on the color temp scale.

[TropTrea]

Woops that was the wrong chart

[TropTrea]

double post when trying to edit

[TropTrea]

hopefully this is it now

[Michigan Mike]

Its hard to take someone serious if they can't spell "actinic" correctly. Haha

Actinic & blue bulbs are a different beast. The combos of them are another thing altogether and shouldn't be compared, especially since this is a T5 thread, people can learn & appreciate the differences.

Keep this a T5 thread please.