Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Tubing arrives today so I'll be setting this up in a bit. I'm going to go with the push method as you suggested slief.

Is there any trick to installing the LS17 tubing into the pump? Lift lever, drop tubing in place, close lever then go into settings somewhere and select proper size?

that's it

[ReefWreak]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Tubing arrives today so I'll be setting this up in a bit. I'm going to go with the push method as you suggested slief.

Is there any trick to installing the LS17 tubing into the pump? Lift lever, drop tubing in place, close lever then go into settings somewhere and select proper size?

Good luck on the setup. I set up a MTC-Mini similar to yours with no pH probe, with a Watson-Marlow digital pump about 8 months ago, and it's been going steady strong. A tiny bit of weeping of saltwater from the threading between the peristaltic tubing nipple and the John Guest fitting for the RO/DI tubing that I just haven't gotten around to fixing (it froze over after a month or two of salt buildup ).

It's a super reactor, and while I haven't been able to keep any coral because they all prefer to die on me as if I were a six-months-into-the-hobby-reefer, it has kept the alkalinity quite stable, and has not impacted pH significantly. My tank grows coralline like the best of em!

You should put rubber feet on the reactor platform before the final install though to quiet it down. The pump is quiet, but it does vibrate a bit and that's the only noise I hear coming from my Reefer 450.

[ReefTron5000]

Originally Posted by slief

If you want to push, the input for the masterflex goes to the sump so the masterflex can pull water from the sump. The output from the masterflex goes to the bottom of the first reactor (blue line) to feed the reactor. The green line at the top of the first reactor goes to the bottom of the 2nd reactor and the red line at the top of the 2nd reactor (effluent) would go back to the sump as well. You will remove that valve though or open it up all the way. This is the way I would run it. As Vinny mentioned, it’s wise to put John Guest valves at all connections so you can do maintenance without the water draining from the lines so you don’t need to prime the lines everytime you do mainenance or change hoses or media.

Regarding the line that's pulling water out of the sump and the effluent water line that is pushing water back into the sump, is there a particular chamber or spot in the sump that to these two lines should be placed? I'm assuming they should be placed far from each other?

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Regarding the line that's pulling water out of the sump and the effluent water line that is pushing water back into the sump, is there a particular chamber or spot in the sump that to these two lines should be placed? I'm assuming they should be placed far from each other?

I would place the intake in a spot devoid of micro bubbles and ideally up stream from the effluent line. I would place the effluent line ideally in a place of high flow away from the return pump and skimmer pump intake to avoid premature calcification inside your pump. As such, you want the effluent it as far from the return pump as possible in an ideal situation while being down stream from the intake. In some cases that isn’t possible. In my case, I draw from my return compartment and return to my refugium but I also have a 40 gallon shallow refugium with a heck of a lot of flow. My return compartment is downstream of that. Truth be told and ideal situations aside, the calcium reactors use so little flow that having the intake downstream of the effluent like I do really doesn’t have much if any impact on the alk in the system.

I hope that confused you more!

[ReefTron5000]

Very helpful. Attempting to connect lines now.

[ReefTron5000]

Got all of the equipment setup and ran the masterflex overnight as recommended to purge the air. I did run the external eheim pump as well. Woke up this morning to discover it leaks somewhere. Thankfully I installed everything in the garage.

Whoever owned this before me glued a PVC fitting to the eheims intake with silicon so I can't even get the grey cover off to get to things.

[Vinny Kreyling]

A razor blade will cut the silicone.
Might take some patience.

[ReefTron5000]

So I think there are two problems

1)

The pump is leaking. Water pools at the bottom, underneath. I'm assuming this worn gasket is the cause?

Well I ordered a new set of seals but it won't be here for a few days.

2)

There is also a leak here. I think I'm going to try and just add some more silicone?

Any other suggestions for plugging the leaks?

Also any suggestions for type of silicone to use? I got a tube at Home Depot that looked right but directions say don't use on plastics.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

So I think there are two problems

1)

The pump is leaking. Water pools at the bottom, underneath. I'm assuming this worn gasket is the cause?

Well I ordered a new set of seals but it won't be here for a few days.

2)

There is also a leak here. I think I'm going to try and just add some more silicone?

Any other suggestions for plugging the leaks?

Also any suggestions for type of silicone to use? I got a tube at Home Depot that looked right but directions say don't use on plastics.

Some silicone will cause the acrylic to Kraze and won’t bond well to the acrylic anyways. I would clean it up and use some weldon 16 to seal it properly.

[Krazie4Acans]

Disclaimer: I am not completely familiar with this brand of calcium reactor although I've been using others for many years.

The idea of the CO2 going directly from the bubble counter into the reaction chamber seems strange to me. In order for the CO2 to be effective it needs to be dissolved into the water in the reactor. In this setup the bubbles would travel from the silicone tube on the left into the chamber and then eithe raccumulate in the chamber or be pulled into the recirculation pipe to the pump. As they are bubbles they would resist being pulled down and could build up in the pipe, right? Then if you cut that tube and put a T in it the probe insert becomes a high spot in the plumbing and CO2 would likely build up in that T wouldn't it?

Most other reactors either feed the CO2 into the intake of the pump to break up the bubbles or diffuse it into the water through the down pipe to the pump. Am I missing something with that description?

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Picked up the mini cal. I've got it in a vinegar bath right now. Apparently US Plastics uses super slow shipping so john guest fittings and LS17 tubing don't arrive until next week. The questions begin.

[Bpb]

Anyone have any LS15 tubing by chance? I’m on my last bit and cole parmer only sells it in 25 foot bundles.


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[FishProf]

USPlastic.com https://www.usplastic.com/search/def...eyword=pharmed
You'll have to research what OD/ID is size 15 tubing
I looked up Cole-Parmer website, and for size 15 Silicone L/S the ID is 0.189" or 4.8mm; which looks like about 3/16"
If this is correct, this is your tubing: https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/it...x?itemid=25400
it's $3.71/foot, sold in 5 feet sections; 5*$3.71 = $18.55; shipping is around $13 (and up).

Originally Posted by Bpb

Anyone have any LS15 tubing by chance? I’m on my last bit and cole parmer only sells it in 25 foot bundles.


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[tkeracer619]

The tubing is proprietary unfortunately so have to go oem.

Sorry to those who are waiting on a pm from me. Have had a family emergency... will get back on my game this weekend!

[ReefTron5000]

So I've plugged the leaks in the reactor and have moved on to trying to dial it in. I'm having trouble getting the ph to 6.5.

I had the knob on the Carbondoser turned all the way counterclockwise. Then I slowly opened up the CO2 (I already checked to make sure it didn't leak). I've set the Carbondoser seconds per bubble dial set to "2" and have the knob set to like 2.5 psi. My ph is 5.95 and still dropping. I'm at something like 1 bubble every 11 or 12 seconds.

What am I doing wrong?

Also how big of a deal is this? When I was setting this up I should have noticed the slight moisture in the air line. I thought I got it all out but apparently not. Is this going to block the gas from getting into the reactor and could this be causing the inconsistent bubble readings I'm getting in the counter?

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

So I've plugged the leaks in the reactor and have moved on to trying to dial it in. I'm having trouble getting the ph to 6.5.

I had the knob on the Carbondoser turned all the way counterclockwise. Then I slowly opened up the CO2 (I already checked to make sure it didn't leak). I've set the Carbondoser seconds per bubble dial set to "2" and have the knob set to like 2.5 psi. My ph is 5.95 and still dropping. I'm at something like 1 bubble every 11 or 12 seconds.

What am I doing wrong?

You also very small reactor. You are going to need to increase the flow/effluent through it to get the pH level up higher since the carbon doser can only go to a max of 10 or 11 seconds per Co2 bubble and you may have trouble maintaining less than 2.5 PSI on the Co2 output. Only issue increasing the flow rate is that you may end up with higher alk and ca levels in your tank than you may desire. Especially if your Alk/Ca consumption aren't much. I would also set your Co2 controller to a lowest PH range of 6.5 or 6.6 depending on your media. Since the carbon doser has a limit of 1 bubble every 11 seconds max, you will likely need to depend on the Ph controller to maintain target pH levels.

With Low PSI, the bubble may be somewhat irregular. You should have a check valve between the bubble counter and the regulator. Any moisture in the Co2 line should dry up and the check valve will prevent water from going back down that line into the regulator should the Co2 shut off. if the check valve is connected directly to the bubble counter and the water in that tube is between the check valve and the regulator, you will really want/need to get that moisture out of there as it will foul the check valve and make it stick in the open position.

[ReefTron5000]

Originally Posted by slief

You also very small reactor. You are going to need to increase the flow/effluent through it to get the pH level up higher since the carbon doser can only go to a max of 10 or 11 seconds per Co2 bubble and you may have trouble maintaining less than 2.5 PSI on the Co2 output. Only issue increasing the flow rate is that you may end up with higher alk and ca levels in your tank than you may desire. Especially if your Alk/Ca consumption aren't much. I would also set your Co2 controller to a lowest PH range of 6.5 or 6.6 depending on your media. Since the carbon doser has a limit of 1 bubble every 11 seconds max, you will likely need to depend on the Ph controller to maintain target pH levels.

I will increase the flow slightly.

When you say CO2 controller here, are you referring to my Apex? Are you saying set the Apex so it shuts off power to the Carbondoser when the PH in the reactor goes below 6.5?

I don't even have the Carbondoser plugged in to my Apex at this point (I can easily). I just thought it was always supposed to be powered.

Originally Posted by slief

With Low PSI, the bubble may be somewhat irregular. You should have a check valve between the bubble counter and the regulator. Any moisture in the Co2 line should dry up and the check valve will prevent water from going back down that line into the regulator should the Co2 shut off. if the check valve is connected directly to the bubble counter and the water in that tube is between the check valve and the regulator, you will really want/need to get that moisture out of there as it will foul the check valve and make it stick in the open position.

There appear to be two check valves on the air line. The moisture is between the bubble counter and the first check valve. From there to the second check valve and then to the reactor looks clear. When I increased the PSI on the AP regulator I saw it started pushing the water up more into the bubble counter but then it just dropped back down when I lowered the PSI to under 3.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

I will increase the flow slightly.

When you say CO2 controller here, are you referring to my Apex? Are you saying set the Apex so it shuts off power to the Carbondoser when the PH in the reactor goes below 6.5?

I don't even have the Carbondoser plugged in to my Apex at this point (I can easily). I just thought it was always supposed to be powered.







There appear to be two check valves on the air line. The moisture is between the bubble counter and the first check valve. From there to the second check valve and then to the reactor looks clear. When I increased the PSI on the AP regulator I saw it started pushing the water up more into the bubble counter but then it just dropped back down when I lowered the PSI to under 3.

When I say controller, I am in fact referring to your Apex and I would suggest plugging the carbon doser into the Apex otherwise you will turn your media to mush with such low pH. Ideally the Apex acts as a fail safe in case the pH in the reactor gets too low which yours appears to be. With smaller reactors and lower effluent rates, you may have trouble maintaining a consistent pH level that is acceptable without having your Apex intervene. I've encountered this before with small reactors on systems with very little Alk uptake. The end result is that the controller has to shut the regulator on and off to keep the pH levels from dropping too low. I would set a range of 6.6 on the low end and 6.7 on the high end so OFF at 6.6 and ON at 6.7. You can use Fusion and set the outlet to pH control. Then fill in the values. I would enable logging on that outlet so you can see how often it's turning on and off and then see the impacts of your changes to flow and Co2 rates.

It is absolutely critical that your check valve be functioning properly. It should prevent any water from going back down from the bubble counter unless there is an air leak between the bubble counter on the reactor and the check valve.

[ReefTron5000]

Slief I appreciate your patient responses.

Originally Posted by slief

When I say controller, I am in fact referring to your Apex and I would suggest plugging the carbon doser into the Apex otherwise you will turn your media to mush with such low pH. Ideally the Apex acts as a fail safe in case the pH in the reactor gets too low which yours appears to be. With smaller reactors and lower effluent rates, you may have trouble maintaining a consistent pH level that is acceptable without having your Apex intervene. I've encountered this before with small reactors on systems with very little Alk uptake. The end result is that the controller has to shut the regulator on and off to keep the pH levels from dropping too low. I would set a range of 6.6 on the low end and 6.7 on the high end so OFF at 6.6 and ON at 6.7. You can use Fusion and set the outlet to pH control. Then fill in the values. I would enable logging on that outlet so you can see how often it's turning on and off and then see the impacts of your changes to flow and Co2 rates.

I'm going to run home and plug the CarbonDoser into the apex as you suggest. I had my wife increase the flow rate to 50 ml/min but the PH is holding steady at 5.95.

Originally Posted by slief

It is absolutely critical that your check valve be functioning properly. It should prevent any water from going back down from the bubble counter unless there is an air leak between the bubble counter on the reactor and the check valve.

I didn't realize it until now but thats a check valve connected to the bottom of the actual bubble counter right? When I had the airline disconnected, no water at all was coming down from there. Then there are two more check valves on the actual air line.

I will monitor the line and make sure water is not pushing back up into the regulator.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Slief I appreciate your patient responses.



I'm going to run home and plug the CarbonDoser into the apex as you suggest. I had my wife increase the flow rate to 50 ml/min but the PH is holding steady at 5.95.




I didn't realize it until now but thats a check valve connected to the bottom of the actual bubble counter right? When I had the airline disconnected, no water at all was coming down from there. Then there are two more check valves on the actual air line.

I will monitor the line and make sure water is not pushing back up into the regulator.

If you are really flowing at 50ml/min, you will likely need to run a higher pH level that 6.6 to 6.7. You will have to test your alk and Ca over the next couple days and see if it’s increasing. That said, did you calibrate your pH probe with pH4 and Ph7 solution as opposed to pH 7 and pH10? If you calibrated with 7 and 10, then you will need to recalibrate with 4 and 7 since you need to calibrate using cal solutions in the lower range you are aiming for in the reactor. Otherwise, your pH readings will not be accurate. You might also make sure you are actually running at the set ml/hr on your pump by using a measuring device such as a graduated cylinder and to measure how much flow is actually coming out of the reactor per min just so you know your actual effluent rates are accurate. Not that it matters much since you are turning the reactor to your displays needs by controlling flow and reactor pH but at least you will know when that when you say you are pushing 50ml/min, that you are actually running that much flow.

And I have no idea if you have a check valve connected to the bottom of your bubble counter. Usually (but not always) they are placed inline on the Co2 tubing. You could have one plumbed into the bubble counter but I have not seen what’s there now as I don’t see any pictures showing what’s there. My first guess is that it’s likely just the barb fitting but I could be wrong.

[Salty Balls]

Hey all.... I have a GEO 624 with a sicce 3.0 circulation pump. I put a masterflex peristaltic pump on. It works pretty well. But I’m having a lot of trouble with bubbles in the chamber. Is there anyway to fix this?

[Salty Balls]

It doesn’t look as bad in the picture. But it also makes my pump run loud.


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[ReefTron5000]

Originally Posted by slief

That said, did you calibrate your pH probe with pH4 and Ph7 solution as opposed to pH 7 and pH10? If you calibrated with 7 and 10, then you will need to recalibrate with 4 and 7 since you need to calibrate using cal solutions in the lower range you are aiming for in the reactor. Otherwise, your pH readings will not be accurate.

Yes I did calibrate with 4 and 7. However after I calibrated, I had to remove the probe from the reactor for several days and had it just sitting in a bottle of water to keep it wet. Not sure if this would have thrown off the calibration. It was still connected to the Apex the whole time.

Originally Posted by slief

You might also make sure you are actually running at the set ml/hr on your pump by using a measuring device such as a graduated cylinder and to measure how much flow is actually coming out of the reactor per min just so you know your actual effluent rates are accurate. Not that it matters much since you are turning the reactor to your displays needs by controlling flow and reactor pH but at least you will know when that when you say you are pushing 50ml/min, that you are actually running that much flow.

I will do this.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ReefTron5000

Yes I did calibrate with 4 and 7. However after I calibrated, I had to remove the probe from the reactor for several days and had it just sitting in a bottle of water to keep it wet. Not sure if this would have thrown off the calibration. It was still connected to the Apex the whole time.





I will do this.

I don’t think that would have impacted the calibration but testing it in some solution wouldn’t be a bad idea or even recalibrating if you have extra solution. Either way, I think that Apex control will be need to prevent the pH from getting too low in that small of a reactor because I don’t think you’re going to want/need to run anywhere near 50ml/min at even 6.6 pH. I have one customer running a Geo 612 x2 which is a dual 6”x12” reactor and at 14ml/min and 1 bubble every 11 or 12 seconds at 3PSI, the Apex has to shut the Co2 off every 1-2 hours maintaining a pH of 6.6 -6.7 range. If I could slow the Co2 rate down further I would but we have a 3 psi check valve and the carbon doser won’t go lower. The display is about 300 gallons, has been up for 2 years and has lots of soft, LPS and some SPS coral. We do expect the Alk consumption to increase but as it sits right now, we need the pH control to maintain the pH targets at the current flow rates so we keep the Alk and Ca levels from skyrocketing. Larger reactors can handle more Co2 and are easier to balance out without needed the controller constantly intervening. That said, run the Carbon Doser on a relay outlet (4 or 8) on a standard EB8. If you have an EB832 or EB4, it doesn’t really matter since they are all Relay outlets (no triacs) on those particular Energy bars.

[ReefTron5000]

Just got home, I'm about to connect it to the Apex.

Something I'm confused about -- while I was at work a couple hours ago I called and had my wife and had her disconnect the carbondoser power. However the pH in the reactor continued to go down. It went from 5.96 to 5.88. Shouldn't the gas flow have stopped with a carbondoser turned off? I assumed once it was off the pH would gradually increase again in the reactor. I don't see any bubbles in the counter.

[Vinny Kreyling]

On the Mini Cal there is a check valve beneath the bubble counter.