Warner Marine Now Has A Pellet Product

[kkris]

Hey Mike,
I'm just saying what John told me. He said it takes up to 3 weeks on some tanks to see results. The WM pellets are different than the ones you're using.
Similar, but different polymers.

Can you make it worth the 50 mile drive to the city for me with some of your gorgeous frags? LOL

[NVTE]

Is it okay to have some bloating on top of reactor ?

[poolkeeper1]

Well after 6 weeks of running the Eco-Bak 500ml in a approx 100gal system heavily stocked SPS/LPS/Zoas tank I am more than pleased. But I have found one issue that makes no sense as all my levels test 0, No3/Po4 Yet I'm getting this brown Diatom outbreak on my sandbed like i did when I first added the EB to my system, And this went away after a few day's when I first added the EB. Now It's coming back again every day, I stir the sandbed and It's gone then almost the same day it comes back. And it happens in all different areas both low and high flow areas. This has been going on for about a week now and i just don't get it. I did extra 10 gal per week water changes to see if that would help but no good so far. Is anyone else having this issue? and If so what did you do to fix it?
Everything else looks great water is crystal clear corals never looked better fish are healthy, I just don't understand what the problem could be?
Any suggestions or Ideas???
Bill

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

Well after 6 weeks of running the Eco-Bak 500ml in a approx 100gal system heavily stocked SPS/LPS/Zoas tank I am more than pleased. But I have found one issue that makes no sense as all my levels test 0, No3/Po4 Yet I'm getting this brown Diatom outbreak on my sandbed like i did when I first added the EB to my system, And this went away after a few day's when I first added the EB. Now It's coming back again every day, I stir the sandbed and It's gone then almost the same day it comes back. And it happens in all different areas both low and high flow areas. This has been going on for about a week now and i just don't get it. I did extra 10 gal per week water changes to see if that would help but no good so far. Is anyone else having this issue? and If so what did you do to fix it?
Everything else looks great water is crystal clear corals never looked better fish are healthy, I just don't understand what the problem could be?
Any suggestions or Ideas???
Bill

Sounds like dinos. This has happened to a bunch of people on the biopellets thread. What some think may be happening is that the pellets remove most of the phosphate and nitrate in the system making the environment unsuitable for many other algaes and thereby create conditions where the dinos can dominate where they otherwise would be outcompeted by other algae. Dinos often start looking like diatoms and need very little phosphate and nitrate to survive. I just read a recent postng of someone who experienced the same thing.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

Sounds like dinos. This has happened to a bunch of people on the biopellets thread. What some think may be happening is that the pellets remove all phosphate and nitrate in the system making the environment unsuitable for many other algaes and thereby create conditions where the dinos can dominate where they otherwise would be outcompeted by other algae. Dinos often start looking like diatoms and need very little phosphate and nitrate to survive. I just read a recent postng of someone who experienced the same thing.

That make as much sense as any thing i can think of, Did anyone figure what to do about it? I can keep stirring the bed every day but there must be a way to stop this or is this going to be the negative effect of these pellets?
Hope not because they were doing so well, Almost like to good to be true LOL
Thanks for the reply, I'll read that other thread and see if there is a solution that has been found.
Bill

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

That make as much sense as any thing i can think of, Did anyone figure what to do about it? I can keep stirring the bed every day but there must be a way to stop this or is this going to be the negative effect of these pellets?
Hope not because they were doing so well, Almost like to good to be true LOL
Thanks for the reply, I'll read that other thread and see if there is a solution that has been found.
Bill

Do not know much about dinos, but I would suggest first try to make a more certan identification and then if dinos, research on how to battle dinos and approach the problem from that perspective. This is not a problem with the pellets, If you have dino spores in your system, the dinos are always there but you do not notice them because they are kept to very small numbers. The pellets remove most of the nitrate and phosphate from the system killing many other algaes giving the dinos a chance to flourish where they would otherwise be outcompeted by the other algae. Now if you do not have any dinos in your system, then you will not have this issue when using the pellets.

[MSHUR]

Originally Posted by kkris

Hey Mike,
I'm just saying what John told me. He said it takes up to 3 weeks on some tanks to see results. The WM pellets are different than the ones you're using.
Similar, but different polymers.

Can you make it worth the 50 mile drive to the city for me with some of your gorgeous frags? LOL

Hi kris,
I was told they pretty much the same .size is diferent for sure. Orp drop a lot from 420-440 to 250 range and i have outlet next to skimmer inlet . Will see so far i am not happy camper)
Come over sometime, maybe we can trade

[reefkt]

Originally Posted by Ninjapotamus

Edit: I have also been using them in a large sulfur DIY denitrator i built with a volume of 5 gallons. The denitrator has 4 layers, bottom is Denitrate media, next sulfur, next crushed coral for buffering, and finally about 250ml of warner biopellets. The denitrator cycled very fast(3 days) and currently outputting 0 nitrates from a tank with 50ish nitrate -- at a fairly fast flowrate for a denitrator.

sounds interesting!
Please keep us updated

[falconut]

It's been two weeks now, so I figured I'd post some updated photos. You can see my starting photos on post#228 of this thread.

500ml of the pellets running with a Maxijet 1000 open full. The left photo is day 1 and the right photo is day 14. Doesn't look any different to me, maybe a little darker.


Here is a comparison of the nasty algae on the rock on the very top of the left side of my tank, directly under the light. The photo on the left is day 1 from the side and the photo on the right is day 14 from the front. It has gotten worse so far. Hopefully because I had to replace the GFO in the reactor with the pellets. Apparently the GFO was working to some extent. I threw some GFO in a bag and placed it in flow in the sump, but I know it's not the best placement. But, I don't want the algae to get too bad.


Since switching out the GFO in the reactor there has been algae growing from all over different rocks and even the sand bed, which was clean when I stated. Here is a photo of the algae in the sand.


The algae is getting bad and starting to crowd some of the corals. This is how I lost a bunch of colonies before. I hope this stuff starts to kick in the next couple of weeks. It does appear that I haven't had to clean the glass as much as before. Hopefully that's a good sign. I post another update in a week or two.

[buy_baff]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

Well after 6 weeks of running the Eco-Bak 500ml in a approx 100gal system heavily stocked SPS/LPS/Zoas tank I am more than pleased. But I have found one issue that makes no sense as all my levels test 0, No3/Po4 Yet I'm getting this brown Diatom outbreak on my sandbed like i did when I first added the EB to my system, And this went away after a few day's when I first added the EB. Now It's coming back again every day, I stir the sandbed and It's gone then almost the same day it comes back. And it happens in all different areas both low and high flow areas. This has been going on for about a week now and i just don't get it. I did extra 10 gal per week water changes to see if that would help but no good so far. Is anyone else having this issue? and If so what did you do to fix it?
Everything else looks great water is crystal clear corals never looked better fish are healthy, I just don't understand what the problem could be?
Any suggestions or Ideas???
Bill

I have exactly the same issue. I beleave it's diotoms not dinos as there is no slime or bubbles just a gold dusting of diotoms. Mine were almost gone tell I tryed to take the gfo out of my reactor a few days ago. The day after they were worse than ever so I put my gfo back in. Now they are almost gone again. So far im not as impressed by this product as everyone else seems to be. I have seen zero algae reduction and my cheato is still growing at a nice clip. I was doseing vite c before and had better color and glass was cleaner also I was feeding like crazy with the vite c. I can only feed a normal amount with the eco bak otherwise I get a major bloom on the glass. I'll give the pellits another couple months and see what happens.

[Stuart60611]

There are two important variables that I think people need to consider here when evauluating whether the pellets are effective.

First, the flow through the reactor. I was corresponding today with Jon who shared an interesting story with me concerning a tank he maintains using ecobak. The client had an inadequate skimmer and high flow through the pellets. The client had about 50 nitrate and 1.0 phosphate The client had a major bacterial bloom that caused some problems with the system. However, in less than a 1 week period the client brought his phosphate and nitrate down to nearly 0. Jon seemed to indicate that the high flow was the culprit which caused this major bacterial bloom and rapid and sharp drop in nitrate and phosphate. Now, although inadequate, the skimmer apparently seemed to me to be doing an adequate enough job because the nitrate and phosphate had to go somewhere which only leaves the skimmer as the means of export. Therefore, it appears to me that the sharp and rapid drop of nitrate and phosphate was directly related to the high flow through the reactor. As such, if you are not seeing enough drop in nitrate and phosphate, I suggest gradually increasing the flow in the reactor and see if things change. I would suggest to up the flow in the reactor in small increments and leave it alone for several days and test your levels to see if it is helping so as to avoid a major bacterial bloom.

Second, the appropriate amount of pellets to use on a given system is still very unclear and will vary wildly depending on the particular stocking, feeding, and water change practices of the individual tank. Therefore, adding more pellets seems to me to be also necessary sometimes when you are not noticing a drop in nitrate and phosphate. As long as done gradually, I do not think you can overdose because the bacterial colonies should be limited by other finite and necessary resources available in the system. But I may be wrong about this, although that is my understanding. If correct, this could be the answer for many finding the pellets ineffective.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by buy_baff

I have exactly the same issue. I beleave it's diotoms not dinos as there is no slime or bubbles just a gold dusting of diotoms. Mine were almost gone tell I tryed to take the gfo out of my reactor a few days ago. The day after they were worse than ever so I put my gfo back in. Now they are almost gone again. So far im not as impressed by this product as everyone else seems to be. I have seen zero algae reduction and my cheato is still growing at a nice clip. I was doseing vite c before and had better color and glass was cleaner also I was feeding like crazy with the vite c. I can only feed a normal amount with the eco bak otherwise I get a major bloom on the glass. I'll give the pellits another couple months and see what happens.

Your right, They are Diatoms and are getting worse! I will put my Phosguard back in the second chamber of my BRS dual reactor tonight to see if that helps get rid of it. I also lost a frag and did some looking in hidden areas and found a big clump of Hair Algae growing on a Sicce pump behind my rock work, (To my Surprise) as i never had any in this tank since setting it up. Things are looking fine but if there is Algae present I'm not sure this is working as they claim? And my Chaeto is also still growing at a pretty good clip???
So much for miracles i guess I'll keep it in for a while longer and see what happens and go from there.
Bill

[buy_baff]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

Your right, They are Diatoms and are getting worse! I will put my Phosguard back in the second chamber of my BRS dual reactor tonight to see if that helps get rid of it. I also lost a frag and did some looking in hidden areas and found a big clump of Hair Algae growing on a Sicce pump behind my rock work, (To my Surprise) as i never had any in this tank since setting it up. Things are looking fine but if there is Algae present I'm not sure this is working as they claim? And my Chaeto is also still growing at a pretty good clip???
So much for miracles i guess I'll keep it in for a while longer and see what happens and go from there.
Bill

Sounds like we are on the same page on this. The phosguard should help. Maybe it only gives guys named Bill diotoms LOL.
-Bill

[solitude127]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

Well after 6 weeks of running the Eco-Bak 500ml in a approx 100gal system heavily stocked SPS/LPS/Zoas tank I am more than pleased. But I have found one issue that makes no sense as all my levels test 0, No3/Po4 Yet I'm getting this brown Diatom outbreak on my sandbed like i did when I first added the EB to my system, And this went away after a few day's when I first added the EB. Now It's coming back again every day, I stir the sandbed and It's gone then almost the same day it comes back. And it happens in all different areas both low and high flow areas. This has been going on for about a week now and i just don't get it. I did extra 10 gal per week water changes to see if that would help but no good so far. Is anyone else having this issue? and If so what did you do to fix it?
Everything else looks great water is crystal clear corals never looked better fish are healthy, I just don't understand what the problem could be?
Any suggestions or Ideas???
Bill

Do you think this is a problem with any ULNS?

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by buy_baff

Sounds like we are on the same page on this. The phosguard should help. Maybe it only gives guys named Bill diotoms LOL.
-Bill

At least I got a good laugh, I just finished adding my Phosguard back and I also got rid of my filter sock after some reading on the N+P thread that suggested trying removing the filter sock and let the skimmer get more of the bacterial byproduct of the pellets, They have needed changing every other day since adding the EB so that was an easy decision as it gives me a break for a while.
I really hope that this all works out as this has great potential and I'm hoping for the best out come possible AAMOF. Good luck to you too Bill
Bill

[buy_baff]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

At least I got a good laugh, I just finished adding my Phosguard back and I also got rid of my filter sock after some reading on the N+P thread that suggested trying removing the filter sock and let the skimmer get more of the bacterial byproduct of the pellets, They have needed changing every other day since adding the EB so that was an easy decision as it gives me a break for a while.
I really hope that this all works out as this has great potential and I'm hoping for the best out come possible AAMOF. Good luck to you too Bill
Bill

Thanks man. I realy hope these work out in the long run as well. I loved the results I was getting with vite C but I love the idea of not haveing to dose all the time as well. I guess only time will tell.
-Bill

[poolkeeper1]

Well after adding the Phosguard last night, It seems that there is less Diatoms on the sandbed today but still some there. They are still in the lower flow areas as I have a MP40 plus a Sicce running on this 59gal tank and there really aren't any dead spots so to speak.
One thing i just noticed is that my frag tank has no trace of this as It's bare bottom and it is no where to be found in that tank, They are on a common sump so It's kinda weird. Could the problem be with the sand? There is no trace of it any where else in the whole system???
Bill

[TheFishMan65]

Could be the sand has some remaining fish poop. The diatoms are getting the nutrients before the pellets can.

[DJREEF]

This is one of the big problems with sandbeds. When they do work they work great. Unfortunately 95% don't function properly, for one or more reasons.

DJ

[bertoni]

The sand might have adsorbed some phosphate, or have enough detritus in it to cause some problems. I'd wait and see how the GFO does.

[poolkeeper1]

Thanks everybody for the comebacks, I'll give it some time and see how things pan out.
Maybe a quick vaccume of the sandbed along with the next water change to help reduce nutrients in the bed?
Bill

[Tigé21v]

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

There are two important variables that I think people need to consider here when evauluating whether the pellets are effective.

First, the flow through the reactor. I was corresponding today with Jon who shared an interesting story with me concerning a tank he maintains using ecobak. The client had an inadequate skimmer and high flow through the pellets.

The client has high flow through the pellets, or low flow?

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

The client had about 50 nitrate and 1.0 phosphate The client had a major bacterial bloom that caused some problems with the system.

Were the excess nutrients already a problem, or were they brought about from using the ecobak? What problems with the system? Cloudy water, or livestock loss?

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

However, in less than a 1 week period the client brought his phosphate and nitrate down to nearly 0. Jon seemed to indicate that the high flow was the culprit which caused this major bacterial bloom and rapid and sharp drop in nitrate and phosphate.

Do you mean culprit (in the negative sense), or in positive terms as the probable cause of the bloom/NO3/PO4 drop?

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

....Therefore, it appears to me that the sharp and rapid drop of nitrate and phosphate was directly related to the high flow through the reactor. As such, if you are not seeing enough drop in nitrate and phosphate, I suggest gradually increasing the flow in the reactor and see if things change. I would suggest to up the flow in the reactor in small increments and leave it alone for several days and test your levels to see if it is helping so as to avoid a major bacterial bloom.

This has had me wondering since I first started reading this thread. Assuming the recommended use rate is correct (1 liter/200 gallons of water) then the recommended flow rate of 100 gph/liter (100 gph/200 gallons) will only "turn" the entire water volume (all the water in the entire system) 1 1/4 times a day. I would think better results would be seen even if the turnover were increased somewhat, at least to twice a day (150 gph flow).

Please don't take this reply in a negative tone. I really hope it does not come across as if I am nitpicking your post. Actually quite the opposite. I just want to be sure I fully understand, since your post is the first one I've seen dealing with the observations due to flow variances. I just received 2 liters today, and am anxious to get it going on my system.

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

Second, the appropriate amount of pellets to use on a given system is still very unclear and will vary wildly depending on the particular stocking, feeding, and water change practices of the individual tank. Therefore, adding more pellets seems to me to be also necessary sometimes when you are not noticing a drop in nitrate and phosphate. As long as done gradually, I do not think you can overdose because the bacterial colonies should be limited by other finite and necessary resources available in the system. But I may be wrong about this, although that is my understanding. If correct, this could be the answer for many finding the pellets ineffective.

I think I will start out at the recommended use rate, but at an increased rate of flow.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by solitude127

Do you think this is a problem with any ULNS?

No, As i ran a 300gal total system for around 4 years using a combo of Vodka, Vinegar Amino Acids, Vitamin C and Fed very heavy with great results. That tank I sold for Lots of Cash and it had well over 100 SPS colonies that all looked great, Color,Size,Growth rate and Mortality rate as I never lost a single piece that was added to that tank other than frags that were knocked into other corals by CUC (Turbos) to be exact.
Point being I never had this issue like with the EB, I did a few times have a Cyano outbreak (Very Small) and used the Vinegar to get rid of that issue.
I think the key to ULNS are the Skimmer being large enough to remove the end product of what we get from the carbon source being added to the system. If It's not able to handle it the end result will be failure to achieve a healthy enviorment for the growth of SPS in a closed system.
Bill
PS, Sorry i missed this at first.

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by Tigé21v

The client has high flow through the pellets, or low flow?

Were the excess nutrients already a problem, or were they brought about from using the ecobak? What problems with the system? Cloudy water, or livestock loss?

Do you mean culprit (in the negative sense), or in positive terms as the probable cause of the bloom/NO3/PO4 drop?

This has had me wondering since I first started reading this thread. Assuming the recommended use rate is correct (1 liter/200 gallons of water) then the recommended flow rate of 100 gph/liter (100 gph/200 gallons) will only "turn" the entire water volume (all the water in the entire system) 1 1/4 times a day. I would think better results would be seen even if the turnover were increased somewhat, at least to twice a day (150 gph flow).

Please don't take this reply in a negative tone. I really hope it does not come across as if I am nitpicking your post. Actually quite the opposite. I just want to be sure I fully understand, since your post is the first one I've seen dealing with the observations due to flow variances. I just received 2 liters today, and am anxious to get it going on my system.



I think I will start out at the recommended use rate, but at an increased rate of flow.

Well, I will try to respond to this the best I can with the information I have. In this situation, it appears that the client had a major bacterial bloom from having too high of flow going through the pellets. I have no idea about any nutrient issues that may or may have not existed with the system. The bacterial bloom did result in extremely cloudy water and some livestock loss which was the problem I was refering to. My best guess is that with too high of flow perhaps too much bacterial mass sluffs off the pellets causing a major bacterial bloom and possible livestock loss. The bacterial bloom did apparently cause a sharp and rapid drop in nitrate and phosphate, but at a substantial cost to the livestock.

[danderson8019]

What would you consider too much flow through a reactor with Ecobak?