Step-by-Step: Drilling Holes in Your Glass Tank for Bulkheads - Page 13

GoldStripe · 04/21/2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtaranath
make sure your tank is not tempered. Some 55 gal tanks are tempered all the way around.

Good point. I have never dealt with a 55 and I always forget about that. Oh well, if it breaks there is your excuse to go get a 75!! LOL

GoldStripe · 04/21/2006, 10:54 AM

Now I'm confused. Let's see if I can straighten this out. I talk overflow and sump return first. The returns from your sump IMO should be aimed at the overflow from the front of the tank. This will provide surface agitation and ensure that the "junk" is being pushed into your overflow.

For the closed loop outlets I will probably drill 2 holes in the bottom of my overflow trough to keep those outlets as far to the back of the tank as i can. Loc-line will come out of the downward facing bulkhead and be aimed towards the front (probably). My other 2 outlets for the closed loop are very low in the tank as you can see from the picture. These will blow against and through the rockwork.

Does this make sense?

adnup · 04/21/2006, 10:59 AM

dtaranath - I called AGA and they said only the bottom was tempered.
We'll see I'm doing it Sat am! I'm post pics of my success OR failure.
I only paid $20 for the tank, if it breaks I'll get another one and use the glass for the overflow.

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 10:59 AM

I think I get it. For the sump and the return you'll run the pipe to the front of the glass and pointed back towards the overflow.
For the closed loop are you going over the top and then down through the overflow or are you going to drill the back of the tank behind the overflow and then drill again through the bottom of the overflow?

I'm using an open top design and don't want any of the plumbing above the tank line.

GoldStripe · 04/21/2006, 11:02 AM

You got it vanceny. I come over the top and down into the trough of the overflow. No sense drilling the extra holes, to me at least.

In your situation, with the open top, I would drill the extra holes. I will have a canopy so everything will be hidden.

adnup · 04/21/2006, 11:04 AM

Oh yeah, my LFS suggested using antifreeze(said thats what AGA uses) to cool the cut. I think I'm just gonna have "the wife" pour water on it as I go

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 11:51 AM

Goldstripe,

Do you think I should bother drilling in the back and on the bottom of the overflow or just drilling below the overflow on the bank of the tank?

Here's a pic of what I was thinking:

Also I was going to join the CL drains with pvc cut with slots, sort if like a spraybar so I dont need individual strainers and this would help draw water from the length of the pipe.

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 11:54 AM

Note - the darker circles are the returns.

GoldStripe · 04/21/2006, 12:41 PM

It's obviously less work to do it under the overflow and you'd probably be fine with that. Because the overflow isn't structural you got drill the back of the tank RIGHT up under overflow to keep it fairly high.

dtaranath · 04/21/2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adnup
Oh yeah, my LFS suggested using antifreeze(said thats what AGA uses) to cool the cut. I think I'm just gonna have "the wife" pour water on it as I go

Another really easy way of cooling the bit is to make a little dam out of plumber's putty ($0.97 at Home Depot). Make it about 1 or 2 cm high, and fill it with water. Just regular water will keep it cool for the entire cut. I drilled six holes this way with the dam, and I regularly checked the temp of the bit throughout each cut. Not once did it ever go beyond cool. Not once was the bit ever warm to touch. I don't think you'll need antifreeze. You'll only need a small amount of water since it will stay within the confines of your dam. You won't need "the wife" for this one.

Here are some pics which may help:

dtaranath · 04/21/2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vanceny
Goldstripe,

Do you think I should bother drilling in the back and on the bottom of the overflow or just drilling below the overflow on the bank of the tank?

Here's a pic of what I was thinking:

Also I was going to join the CL drains with pvc cut with slots, sort if like a spraybar so I dont need individual strainers and this would help draw water from the length of the pipe.

If you're going to drill the holes in the back of the tank just under the overflow, make sure you take into account the length of the flange on your bulkhead. You don't want that lip to get in the way of your overflow. There should be enough space between the bottom edge of the overflow intake bulkheads and the top edge of the closed loop return bulkheads, so that the base of the overflow will fit without a problem.

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 01:36 PM

Thanks for the tip.

dtaranath · 04/21/2006, 01:41 PM

Oh, and JustOneMoreTank,

If you're ever in the Philadelphia area, let me know. I owe you at least a beer for starting this thread. You saved me about $150.

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 01:56 PM

question: only a tempered tank will shatter into a million pieces, right? This will be my second attempt drilling. The first time I shattered the whole side. It was a perfecto that I got used and when I spoke to customer service they claimed that there tanks were only bottom tempered. Its possible that they were referring to their current tanks. This was a much older tank. I ddin't specify how old the tank was.

I just want to make sure that it wasn't something that I was doing wrong. Non-tempered glass would just crack and not shatter into the tiny squares. Is this correct?

dtaranath · 04/21/2006, 01:57 PM

that's correct.

non-tempered will crack into huge shards.

vanceny · 04/21/2006, 02:16 PM

dtaranath, or anyone else,

which method did you use to reduce the splintering in the hole? Duct tape, drill inside and outside, or clamped scrap glass on inside?

dtaranath · 04/21/2006, 02:25 PM

Drilling inside and outside would be the best way, if you could be accurate about both cuts. That's too impossible for me. Clamped scrap glass would probably work the next best, if you had a clamp long enough.

That being said, I know I can't be accurate to match the inside cut exactly with the outside cut, and I didn't have a long enough clamp or scrap glass to clamp to the inside of the tank. I ended up using duct tape. All my holes splintered, but not terribly. The gasket on the bulkheads cover them completely. Just slow down when you start nearing the other side. You'll know you're almost there when there is a more pronounced grinding noise (probably because you're hitting a splinter you just made.

GoldStripe · 04/21/2006, 03:24 PM

What he said

I don't know if the speed is as much of a factor as the pressure at the endpoint. The splinter usually occurs during the last 32nd of an inch and I found thru the 6 I drilled that if I keep the weight of the drill off the glass, the splinter was smaller. It's gonna happen but you can minimize it by being cautious at the end.

There's no way I could be accurate enough to drill from the inside. If you could make template with plywood and use reversable clamps (spreaders) it could be done. The only way I'd attempt it is systematically.

DHyslop · 04/21/2006, 03:54 PM

What he said times two.

I'm a big fan of the scrap glass method. I don't have much luck using just duct tape to hold the scrap because I usually have some water that finds its way underneath. I add a piece of wood that goes across the inside of the tank and supports the scrap glass. A benefit of this is you can worry slightly less about the pressure you're applying with the drill mid-span because instead of trying to bend the glass, much of it is being transmitted through the wood, the other side of the tank and then into the floor or workbench.

Dan

swedish steel · 04/21/2006, 08:38 PM

I agree about pressure causing more spintering at the hole exit. I try to just let the drill and hole saw do the cutting at the end with very little pressure. I use a squirt bottle to lubricate the hole saw as I am drilling a 300 and 130 and drilling with the tank in an upright position. My wife or one of my children give the hole saw a squirt about every 3 seconds. By holding the drill firmly with both hands and elbow brace to a leg, I attempt to keep the saw drilling evenly for the exit. I worked for Boeing on the 777 & 737 for three years and if a ding happened to the alluminum, engineering had us grind it out to a prescribed dimention to prevent stress cracks. I bought a dremel tool and am grinding all splinters to a smooth touch. This may be going too far, but I did it with preventative measures in mind. I have 16 holes and 8 left to drill on the two tanks for overflow and closed loop systems.

swedish steel · 04/21/2006, 08:39 PM

I forgot to mention. I duct tape the exit side.

zeblisik · 04/22/2006, 05:38 AM

I used a cordless drill to drill my holes. I'm not sure what speed I went but I think it took about 10 min to drill. The bit and the glass never got hot. I just poured some water on it and used a large ring to keep the water in the right area.

the only reason I ever put more water on was because the ring was too big and the water would move away.

GoldStripe · 04/22/2006, 07:32 AM

I started with using a cordless but my batteries are shot and would only last about 5 minutes. So I switched to a corded, went a lot faster, more RPM. I'm not so worried about high speed as I am about keeping the drill straight and keeping the pressure very light.

I did my drilling outside and used a hose barely turned on for cooling.

BallaBooyeaH · 04/22/2006, 09:45 AM

Lau - where are my Bit's

I wanna start drilling.....

adnup · 04/22/2006, 10:17 AM

It worked great! Thanks everyone for your input!
I made a 2x4 template. It seemed too thick so I cut a 1/4" slice and used that. Ran the hose over the cut and everything went smooth. Alittle bit of chipping but nothing major at all.
Here are some pics:

04/21/2006, 10:59 AM	#303
adnup Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Spring Hill, Florida Posts: 2,025	dtaranath - I called AGA and they said only the bottom was tempered. We'll see I'm doing it Sat am! I'm post pics of my success OR failure. I only paid $20 for the tank, if it breaks I'll get another one and use the glass for the overflow. __________________ A HOUSE isn't a HOME without saltwater on the floor! Current Tank Info: 120 Starphire, I-Tech 200 Skimmer, Snapper, Tunze

04/21/2006, 11:04 AM	#306
adnup Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Spring Hill, Florida Posts: 2,025	Oh yeah, my LFS suggested using antifreeze(said thats what AGA uses) to cool the cut. I think I'm just gonna have "the wife" pour water on it as I go __________________ A HOUSE isn't a HOME without saltwater on the floor! Current Tank Info: 120 Starphire, I-Tech 200 Skimmer, Snapper, Tunze

04/21/2006, 01:41 PM	#313
dtaranath Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 542	Oh, and JustOneMoreTank, If you're ever in the Philadelphia area, let me know. I owe you at least a beer for starting this thread. You saved me about $150. __________________ ______________________ 220g mixed reef

04/21/2006, 01:57 PM	#315
dtaranath Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 542	that's correct. non-tempered will crack into huge shards. __________________ ______________________ 220g mixed reef

04/21/2006, 02:25 PM	#317
dtaranath Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 542	Drilling inside and outside would be the best way, if you could be accurate about both cuts. That's too impossible for me. Clamped scrap glass would probably work the next best, if you had a clamp long enough. That being said, I know I can't be accurate to match the inside cut exactly with the outside cut, and I didn't have a long enough clamp or scrap glass to clamp to the inside of the tank. I ended up using duct tape. All my holes splintered, but not terribly. The gasket on the bulkheads cover them completely. Just slow down when you start nearing the other side. You'll know you're almost there when there is a more pronounced grinding noise (probably because you're hitting a splinter you just made. __________________ ______________________ 220g mixed reef

04/21/2006, 10:54 AM	#302
GoldStripe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jville, FL Posts: 1,136	Now I'm confused. Let's see if I can straighten this out. I talk overflow and sump return first. The returns from your sump IMO should be aimed at the overflow from the front of the tank. This will provide surface agitation and ensure that the "junk" is being pushed into your overflow. For the closed loop outlets I will probably drill 2 holes in the bottom of my overflow trough to keep those outlets as far to the back of the tank as i can. Loc-line will come out of the downward facing bulkhead and be aimed towards the front (probably). My other 2 outlets for the closed loop are very low in the tank as you can see from the picture. These will blow against and through the rockwork. Does this make sense?

04/21/2006, 10:59 AM	#304
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	I think I get it. For the sump and the return you'll run the pipe to the front of the glass and pointed back towards the overflow. For the closed loop are you going over the top and then down through the overflow or are you going to drill the back of the tank behind the overflow and then drill again through the bottom of the overflow? I'm using an open top design and don't want any of the plumbing above the tank line.

04/21/2006, 11:02 AM	#305
GoldStripe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jville, FL Posts: 1,136	You got it vanceny. I come over the top and down into the trough of the overflow. No sense drilling the extra holes, to me at least. In your situation, with the open top, I would drill the extra holes. I will have a canopy so everything will be hidden.

04/21/2006, 11:51 AM	#307
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	Goldstripe, Do you think I should bother drilling in the back and on the bottom of the overflow or just drilling below the overflow on the bank of the tank? Here's a pic of what I was thinking: Also I was going to join the CL drains with pvc cut with slots, sort if like a spraybar so I dont need individual strainers and this would help draw water from the length of the pipe.

04/21/2006, 11:54 AM	#308
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	Note - the darker circles are the returns.

04/21/2006, 12:41 PM	#309
GoldStripe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jville, FL Posts: 1,136	It's obviously less work to do it under the overflow and you'd probably be fine with that. Because the overflow isn't structural you got drill the back of the tank RIGHT up under overflow to keep it fairly high.

04/21/2006, 01:36 PM	#312
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	Thanks for the tip.

04/21/2006, 01:56 PM	#314
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	question: only a tempered tank will shatter into a million pieces, right? This will be my second attempt drilling. The first time I shattered the whole side. It was a perfecto that I got used and when I spoke to customer service they claimed that there tanks were only bottom tempered. Its possible that they were referring to their current tanks. This was a much older tank. I ddin't specify how old the tank was. I just want to make sure that it wasn't something that I was doing wrong. Non-tempered glass would just crack and not shatter into the tiny squares. Is this correct?

04/21/2006, 02:16 PM	#316
vanceny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 287	dtaranath, or anyone else, which method did you use to reduce the splintering in the hole? Duct tape, drill inside and outside, or clamped scrap glass on inside?

04/21/2006, 03:24 PM	#318
GoldStripe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jville, FL Posts: 1,136	What he said I don't know if the speed is as much of a factor as the pressure at the endpoint. The splinter usually occurs during the last 32nd of an inch and I found thru the 6 I drilled that if I keep the weight of the drill off the glass, the splinter was smaller. It's gonna happen but you can minimize it by being cautious at the end. There's no way I could be accurate enough to drill from the inside. If you could make template with plywood and use reversable clamps (spreaders) it could be done. The only way I'd attempt it is systematically.

04/21/2006, 03:54 PM	#319
DHyslop Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: RI Posts: 1,085	What he said times two. I'm a big fan of the scrap glass method. I don't have much luck using just duct tape to hold the scrap because I usually have some water that finds its way underneath. I add a piece of wood that goes across the inside of the tank and supports the scrap glass. A benefit of this is you can worry slightly less about the pressure you're applying with the drill mid-span because instead of trying to bend the glass, much of it is being transmitted through the wood, the other side of the tank and then into the floor or workbench. Dan

04/21/2006, 08:38 PM	#320
swedish steel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 102	I agree about pressure causing more spintering at the hole exit. I try to just let the drill and hole saw do the cutting at the end with very little pressure. I use a squirt bottle to lubricate the hole saw as I am drilling a 300 and 130 and drilling with the tank in an upright position. My wife or one of my children give the hole saw a squirt about every 3 seconds. By holding the drill firmly with both hands and elbow brace to a leg, I attempt to keep the saw drilling evenly for the exit. I worked for Boeing on the 777 & 737 for three years and if a ding happened to the alluminum, engineering had us grind it out to a prescribed dimention to prevent stress cracks. I bought a dremel tool and am grinding all splinters to a smooth touch. This may be going too far, but I did it with preventative measures in mind. I have 16 holes and 8 left to drill on the two tanks for overflow and closed loop systems.

04/21/2006, 08:39 PM	#321
swedish steel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 102	I forgot to mention. I duct tape the exit side.

04/22/2006, 05:38 AM	#322
zeblisik Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 393	I used a cordless drill to drill my holes. I'm not sure what speed I went but I think it took about 10 min to drill. The bit and the glass never got hot. I just poured some water on it and used a large ring to keep the water in the right area. the only reason I ever put more water on was because the ring was too big and the water would move away.

04/22/2006, 07:32 AM	#323
GoldStripe Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jville, FL Posts: 1,136	I started with using a cordless but my batteries are shot and would only last about 5 minutes. So I switched to a corded, went a lot faster, more RPM. I'm not so worried about high speed as I am about keeping the drill straight and keeping the pressure very light. I did my drilling outside and used a hose barely turned on for cooling.

04/22/2006, 09:45 AM	#324
BallaBooyeaH Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Co. Waterford Ireland Posts: 240	Lau - where are my Bit's I wanna start drilling..... __________________ BallaBooyeaH - reefing in Ireland Current Tank Info: New 90 in progress

04/22/2006, 10:17 AM	#325
adnup Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Spring Hill, Florida Posts: 2,025	AND the results are........ It worked great! Thanks everyone for your input! I made a 2x4 template. It seemed too thick so I cut a 1/4" slice and used that. Ran the hose over the cut and everything went smooth. Alittle bit of chipping but nothing major at all. Here are some pics: