N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[jason2459]

I also find them really easy to use in the canister filter and even easier now that I put them right in my tank. I know another person has them in a reactor with substrate in it with some good results. I've been curious how well they would work in one of those tall fluidized substrate reactors mixed with pellets and some type of large grain sand.

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[pecan2phat]

Don't really understand the dynamics of these pellets. I had posted that I had started with 1100 ml of pellets back on 8/7/10 and went through the initial bacterial bloom. I slowly worked my way up to 2200 ml in two additional increments and only went through a shorter, less cloudy bacterial bloom and it took about 8 weeks for my No3 to start dropping from 100 ppm and to eventually 15 ppm by the 10th week. At this time I notice that about 500 ml of pellets had dissolved so on 11/13/10, I added another 550 ml after soaking in tank water for 30 hours. Thought everything was fine until 2 weeks later when I experienced a bacterial bloom worse then the initial bloom when I started the pellets. It got so cloudy and the skimmer was overflowing every 12 hours. The glass was coated and the fish look distressed that I had to add airstones into the sump. So now it's about the 4th day and the bloom is subsiding but the pellets in the reactor has seriously clumped up, what am I doing wrong, should I have not replenshed the target amount of 2200 ml of pellets in the reactor? NP-X brand recommends 550 ml per 75g and my system is about 300g hence the 2200 ml. TIA

[jmoney]

I think the reactor needs to be completely redesigned for these things. The varying degrees of success I have read throughout these posts have given me an idea. Why not have a reactor that is nice and wide( about 6 inches) With a stirring device that goes all the way down. It can look a lot like some of the curvy blade systems I have seen in some Zeo reactors. The water flow could be set to a very slow churn to let the water really have a chance to contact the pellets, and then twice a day the spinner could churn up any sticky spots for about 30 seconds.

I think it would be curious to see if this would work.

[thebanker]

maybe a kalkreactor, or a zeo reactor that allows easy stirring & shaking of the media?

[daveonbass]

any moveable plunger that could stir the pellets up would be advantagious IMHO. Every time I notice more crud in the tank and on the sand, I look and see that the skimmer it not making much nasty stuff, and then sure enough the pellets are all clumped up and not tumbleing. But as soon as I stir them up (not the easiest process) and they are good and moving again, I can finally notice more skimmate the next day and my tank looks "cleaner". So I agree that having a way to easily stir the pellets would be the best reactor for my set up.

[jmoney]

Exactly, but Automated the point of the pellets is to not have to touch it except to refill it i thought. I would just use zeo stones to be honest if I had to pump the reactor. But I had never thought of a kalk reactor that would work as well.

[thebanker]

I think the reactors DO need to be redesigned for pellet use, like an entire overhaul of the current norm.

They should cleverly employ nature's constant acceleration to keep the pellets moving. It's called gravity!

[pecan2phat]

What should I do now since the pellets are basically a few large clumps? Should I take the reactor apart and try to clean them in tank water or rinse it and start all over again? It's been 3-4 days and it doesn't look like it will go back to it's original free flowing state, I should have not added the replenish mount

[jmoney]

Originally Posted by pecan2phat

What should I do now since the pellets are basically a few large clumps? Should I take the reactor apart and try to clean them in tank water or rinse it and start all over again? It's been 3-4 days and it doesn't look like it will go back to it's original free flowing state, I should have not added the replenish mount

I have the same issue with my brs pellets in their reactor, no matter what I do they stay clumped. Even if I take out the media cartridge and shake it they clump back up. However the flow coming out of the reactor is still fine

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by thebanker

I think the reactors DO need to be redesigned for pellet use, like an entire overhaul of the current norm.

They should cleverly employ nature's constant acceleration to keep the pellets moving. It's called gravity!

This is where I've argued that the pellets really should be bigger - like maybe pea sized, and shaped. Round objects allow for more flow thru and larger pellets are less likely to make their way back into the main setup even with larger openings in the mesh.

DJ

[jmoney]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

This is where I've argued that the pellets really should be bigger - like maybe pea sized, and shaped. Round objects allow for more flow thru and larger pellets are less likely to make their way back into the main setup even with larger openings in the mesh.

DJ

I couldn't agree more, a round shape would work much better. I saw that D-D made a pellet like this, but its pretty pricey. I would like to hear from anyone that their pellets in a zeovit type reactor, or a kalk stirrer, and what your thoughts are on doing this.

[GUILLO1]

I don't know why they keep on clumping together on you guys. It must be because of the reactors you guys are using. Here is a video of my WM pellets in action. I'm using a Geo reactor with an old berling skimmer pump.

[pecan2phat]

My NP-X pellets are oblong spherical shaped and they were doing fine for 10 weeks until I went and added more to replenish the portion that was dissolved.

[thebanker]

The funny thing is, we haven't figured out whether or not the pellets really NEED to be fluidized and constantly tumbling to be effective. We assume they do, but I haven't heard anyone say that the absolutely need to be tumbling to work properly.

[daveonbass]

i heard from a seller that they claim that the pellets only need water flowing through them, and slowly is fine...even to the point that they clump a lot. BUT in my experience they do not produce as much skimmate nor do they keep the tank "clean" like when they are tumbleing. (clean=no schmoots on the sand and glass)

Once mine got tumbleing again the tank righted its self. However, that being said, the water parameters never changed. Once they started working for me, they have kept the N and P at 0ppm wheather they were clumped and not moving at all...or tumbleing around the chamber. Just the skimmate was noticibly different.

[pecan2phat]

I couldn't stand looking at the reactor and 2000 ml of clumped pellet blocks pushed to the top so I broke down the reactor tonight and rinsed in a dish pan with about 5g of tank water. Let's see if the tank goes through another bacterial bloom.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by thebanker

The funny thing is, we haven't figured out whether or not the pellets really NEED to be fluidized and constantly tumbling to be effective. We assume they do, but I haven't heard anyone say that the absolutely need to be tumbling to work properly.

Considering I have mine in my substrate, not tumbling at all, and working great. I have to agree that massive tumbling is not required.

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[jmoney]

Originally Posted by daveonbass

i heard from a seller that they claim that the pellets only need water flowing through them, and slowly is fine...even to the point that they clump a lot. BUT in my experience they do not produce as much skimmate nor do they keep the tank "clean" like when they are tumbleing. (clean=no schmoots on the sand and glass)

Once mine got tumbleing again the tank righted its self. However, that being said, the water parameters never changed. Once they started working for me, they have kept the N and P at 0ppm wheather they were clumped and not moving at all...or tumbleing around the chamber. Just the skimmate was noticibly different.

Dave, I have to be honest, even as a skeptic of these things, you seem to be a little off base. Your system obviously is not working with the pellets, but at the same time, I really don't want to blame that on them. As I have NOT seen a reduction in algae since I started using them a few weeks ago, the times when I have had my overflow working for 8 hours or less, until I finally fixed the issue a few days ago, these pellets have increased my water clarity significantly, almost as if I have put in new carbon. I feel like there is another issue in your tank preventing you from results, that has nothing to do with the pellets, but in basic husbandry. And yes I have read this entire thread. While I do enjoy extremely skeptical criticism, I find that your have yet to provide any actual evidence that the pellets don't work for you except that you believe they are worthless.

While I reserve judgement as if these pellets can help us achieve an ULNS system, on not just my tank but others around me the clarity has been an odd thing, and only a few have had problems with an algae bloom (none that have used the BRS) but I can say , those of us that have used brs use their reactor as well and have experienced problems with clumping, but not a significant reduction of flow. At this point I am not concerned about the clumping as long as the flow continues to be strong. I think this is still a very new product, and we have much to learn about how to use it properly.

If someone, I think it was DJ reef, has found success in running them in a filter bag, no reactor, there is something to be said. We DO NOT understand the best way to provide flow to the pellets. There is a few more years of trial and error, or trial and success to give us indication of the best method. These seem to be one of the many things that will be argued on, in which way they should be applied, but my only hope is that through communities such as this we can determine such things.

However, this being said, I can honestly say, your contribution to this discussion has been for the most part useless, detrimental, pessimistic, and in no way useful in our continued trials as to the best way to properly apply these pellets to our marine environment. We keep such a small ecosystem in comparison to a corals natural environment, it almost seems odd that we can claim to replicate it. There might be some promising future to these pellets, but until we can determine the proper way to use them, I can only study and rely on the success and failures of others. What works in one system in no way will always work in another, we are diverse in the way we have set our systems up. To continually say that it doesn't work, these are bogus, etc. etc. Is of no use. Perhaps there is another X factor in your system that is causing. Or perhaps you are right. But unless you begin the process of changing your system, removing one thing at a time, and still have no success it seems odd that you can claim these things are not working. Perhaps you have bad rock, perhaps your sand bed is a detriment to your system, perhaps your sump is somehow accumulating waste. I have spent far too much time testing different methods, equipment, and additives to follow this approach on my on beginner 75 gallon tank. In recent discovery I have found that I have been 95% responsible for most of the issues with my tank, not the things I put into it. In fact when I have properly applied many different methods...they all work...and they all work the same. From probigio, reef-resh, zeovit, vodka, ats, RDSB I have achieved great results for some period of time until my own human error has come into play. With the biopellets now, I am only beginning to assume that faulty equipment and lack of knowledge led to my earlier failure. Now I am not even running activated carbon, but my water looks sparkly clear, with only pellets running.

HOWEVER, I am still reserving my judgement on if these pellets work as effective as all the other methods i listed above, until they bring my problem of HA back under control, as all the other methods have.

What I am concluding is that please, unless you are willing to start accepting that there are other issues in your tank that YOU caused, don't blame a method, because the error more than likely is you, not one of the many wonderful methods that reefers have created to attempt a replication of a natural reef environment

[daveonbass]

Originally Posted by jmoney

And yes I have read this entire thread.

Obviously not. If you HAD, then you would know that I NOW love my pellets and swear by them as well as give insight on how to maybe get stubborn pellets/systems jump started like I finally did and have those systems work as well.

but maybe you did and this is all just human error on your part. Nice try though...

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by thebanker

...They should cleverly employ nature's constant acceleration to keep the pellets moving. It's called gravity!

-I'm firm believer in that way , and this also the way my pellets are fed.
Just a vaze or glass jar (plastic floats) that contains the pellets , the drain from the display draining about 4 " above and in the middle of the pellets in that vaze or container.

The higher the flow you run through the container , means a bigger diameter and a longer container .

My container is about 4" X 4" (= square) and is about 10 " tall , flow thru drain pipe is aprox. 300 to 400 G/h.

They don't have to move like a storm , just a gentle boiling movement is enough (you only have to ensure you don't have low oxygen zones in the pellets.


greetingzz tntneon

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by tntneon

-I'm firm believer in that way , and this also the way my pellets are fed.
Just a vaze or glass jar (plastic floats) that contains the pellets , the drain from the display draining about 4 " above and in the middle of the pellets in that vaze or container.

The higher the flow you run through the container , means a bigger diameter and a longer container .

My container is about 4" X 4" (= square) and is about 10 " tall , flow thru drain pipe is aprox. 300 to 400 G/h.

They don't have to move like a storm , just a gentle boiling movement is enough (you only have to ensure you don't have low oxygen zones in the pellets.


greetingzz tntneon

Hi tnt neon, could you post a pic of your setup.... I tried the same thing on the outlet of my skimmer..... not the brightest idea I ever had tho....
The tiny airbubbles that where in the water sticked to the pellets and out they went now there all over my sump.....

To all the other guys, wouldn't adding some crushed coral to the reactor solve the clumping problem?... I've read that lots of guys add it to give the bacteria more room to grow on, but IMO it would work also as a scrubber, cleaning the pellets as they come in contact with each other.
The crushed coral should be a bit bigger in size than the pellets, otherwise the pellets just ride on the top of it all....... something to do with...... you know..... I can't remember...... I'm getting old...... haha

thanks

Ivan

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by izzy123

....The tiny airbubbles that where in the water sticked to the pellets and out they went now there all over my sump.....

Ivan

Hi Izzy ,

I had the same problem when i changed to the new formula pellets , i wasn't happy either with the tiny bubbles , they tend to lift the pellets.

I solved this problem , by soaking the pellets in tankwater for at least 2 to 3 days (longer = better) and then adding them to the reactor.
when you add them try to reduce flow / or stop flow from in reactor as you add them.

It also seems that they listened to the critsism about this issue , because they launched the third kind of pellets , and they look like the first ones ( the ones i liked the most ...) , more round shaped and they also seem to look more dense (not having trapped air pockets in them) , or maybe they are the first ones re-introduced in an other package ...

greetingzz tntneon

[rsuplido]

I think new pellet reactors are coming and more well designed to keep the pellets tumbling:


The bottom part propels the pellets up every time:


I wish manufacturers of the more common reactors create inserts so you can change the bottom plate to something like the above.

[takayan]

Here is the video for the reactor made by a shop in Japan. It looks awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFwn5ddax1g

[takayan]

Also, Reef Octopus will release Hang-On BioPellets reactor.
http://e-lss.jugem.jp/?eid=280