The T5 Q&a Thread - split - Page 136

Michigan Mike · 04/21/2013, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroktheCube

It's been a few days since I got my 4x54 Sunpower, so I thought I'd post up some thoughts. I haven't been able to experiment with it quite as much as I'd like, unfortunately. The day I put it up, I noticed a few slimy strands of dinos on the sand. The next day, the sand bed was brown, and there were slimy strands coming off several of the rocks. I turned all the lights off yesterday, and they'll be staying off for a few days (along with dosing H2O2, and some Kalk to maintain pH of ~8.55).

I did however have some time to play around, and I'm very impressed. I'm definitely glad that I invested in this fixture. It's obviously very well made, and I love the hanging system. Aesthetically, the lighting is worlds better than LEDs alone. I can see why ATI is charging an arm and a left kidney for the LED+T5 powermodule, it's a fantastic combination. With the T5s added in, my green hitchhiking Palys have gone from being pretty little green buttons, to glowing green with red bodies. The colors generally look more defined throughout the tank, and the final color is more to my liking than LEDs alone.

I was surprised by how much more blue the KZ Superblue bulbs where than the ATI Blue + bulbs. The ATI bulbs definitely have a good bit more green in them. They're also appear a bit brighter to my eyes. I like the way the ATI purple bulb makes reds pop out, but it makes everything else look a bit too warm also. I'm currently using:
Front
ATI Actinic
KZ Superblue
ATI Actinic
ATI Blue +
Back

Still not completely sold that I've found the best combination. but I'm getting there.

I ordered a few LPS from DD (Green Galaxea, "Green Eye" Favites, Red and Green Fiva) which should be arriving Tuesday. I'll be turning the lights back on Wednesday (hopefully the Dinos will be all but toast by then, still have no idea why they showed up, I don't have any other problem algae in the tank), so I figure that'll give me some more chances to experiment.

When I put high power lighting on my tank I got algae @ first too. GFO,carbon, & water changes.
Is your tank still pretty new? Diatoms are normal in a new tank.
8.5 PH? I wouldn't bother unless it dropped way more than that, but that's me & mine.

What are you thinking? Maybe a coral plus instead of the purple or another blue instead of the actinic?

GroktheCube · 04/22/2013, 12:19 AM

The tank is only a couple months old, but these are definitely dinos and not diatoms. Long brown snots filled with lotsa bubbles. Inorganic nutrients have been undetectable for some time, and other than one or two small patches of turf, and coralline, I haven't had any major algae after the initial diatom bloom died off. I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure it'll fix itself, I've just read enough horror stories about dinos that I'd rather not chance it :-p.

I may try a coral plus in place of ones of the blues, or I may shuffle around blue + bulbs and KZ superblue bulbs some more. When the LEDs are at 60%+, the colors are absolutely perfect with two actinics, a superblue, and a blue+ (with the blue+ in the back, next to the 90* optic LEDs). When they're under 40% certain colors (especially deep reds and light purples, it seems) are a little washed out. Adding the purple bulb gets the contrast back, but also tends to make everything a little bit too warm, especially very light colors. That may not be the case as coralline coverage improves over time.

The fixture has still dramatically improved color rendition all around, and I'm quite happy with how it looks. I'll just have to experiment a bit to see if I can find a combination that's not blue enough that it starts to wash things out while the LEDs are dim, but still blue enough that it gives me the look and color I want when the LEDs are bright. I think a coral plus bulb might be the ticket, as it looks like it has enough in the green and red wavelengths to even the color out a little bit before the LEDs ramp up, but is still dominantly blue.

TimeConsumer · 04/22/2013, 03:33 AM

Brown snot with bubbles does not necessarily mean dinos. I had what I thought to be a dino outbreak (still don't know for sure, no microscope) years ago. After rounds of Ultra Algae X and blackouts and other remedies I managed to defeat the outbreak. Nowadays I notice very similar looking gunk in my refugium, but with slightly more experience I have come to believe it is cyano, not dinos. In the end, don't make any rash decisions, just keep up your husbandry and wait it out to see what happens. Worst case scenario you could probably find a phytologist at a local university's marine biology department to analyze a sample for you to determine what you really have.

GroktheCube · 04/22/2013, 09:15 AM

Interesting. I had all but ruled out cyano due to the extremely rapid growth, very low DOC/nutrient content of the water, and high flow (~7500 GPH in a 120). The good news is that whatever it is doesn't harm any hermits or snails that much on it. I'm not going to go too crazy over it, but I figure blacking out the tank for a few days, raising the pH by .2, and adding a small amount of peroxide is very unlikely to hurt anything that I want in the tank.

Sorry for the derail, I appreciate your input :-). I may look at it under a microscope if it isn't gone when I light the tank up again.

TropTrea · 04/22/2013, 11:02 PM

A few years ago I was pulling out my hair over cyno bacteria. Many people said I had something else since it was not the deep blue green color that is most common. But I found an article on line about it and there was the picture of exactly what I had.

Interestingly they listed three things that I needed to check.
1. Phosphates level mine were not readable on the test kit I had but after changing test kits I read about 0.7 ppm.
2. Nitrates, and Nitrites which were not a problem for me.
3. Excessive red light especialy in wave lenght over 660nm.

Wow that pinned it for me. MY GE 6,500K bulb was almost 2 years old. From my past experience with that bulb there is gradual increase in the longer wave lenght red part of the spectrum with age and a decrease in the green and blue part of the spectrum. After replacing the GE 6,500K with a new bulb it took about a month for the cyno bacteria to clear up.

GroktheCube · 04/23/2013, 03:16 AM

Hmm, perhaps I should just run blues for a bit. I have a bit of long red from 660nm LEDs.

My guess is that part of the problem is that it's such a new tank. Not much competition for anything, and the majority of the non hitchhiking CUC animals have only been added in the past week or two. I'm hardly pulling my hair out over it, I just wanted to nip it in the bud in case it's the dreaded Dinos. There isn't much at all in the way of nutrients going into the tank, other than what would be leaching out of rock (unsurprisingly, the majority of it is growing on dry marco rock), but there also isn't much in the way of things to consume them in such a new tank. PO4 is undetectable with both Red Sea and Hanna, but given most of the growth is on dry marco rock, the stuff may be sucking up all the leached PO4 before it even gets into the water column.

Alex240 · 04/25/2013, 10:47 PM

If anyone is interested... I just ordered a 8x80w ATI Sunpower fixture and a WIDE assortment of bulbs to work with.

5 ATI Blue+
5 KZ Super Blue
2 ATI Purple+
1 GE 6500
1 KZ New Gen
1 ATI Coral+
2 ATI True Actinic
1 Giesemann Pure Actinic

So 18 bulbs to mix around. I will be able to compare the KZ super blue to the latest ATI Blue+ and many of the other questioned combos. I will do my best to take pics and post them for all.

In the plans to test... Feel free to post and recommendations. Should have fixture monday.

5 Super Blue
1 GE
1 Purple
1 Actinic

5 Ati Blue+
1 GE
1 Purple
1 Actinic

5 Blue
1 GE
1 Coral
1 Actinic

5 Blue
1 Actinic
1 KZ
1 Purple

Ect...

tegee · 04/26/2013, 04:49 AM

My vote would be, fwiw, (4) Super Blue, (1) New Gen, (1) Coral +, (1) Purple+ and (1) Actinic. I personally would scrap the GE.

I have running on a 10 x 80w PM: (6) Blue+, (2) Coral+ and (2) Purple+. I run (2) Blue's on 3 & 8 Dawn/Dusk. I plan on pulling a Coral+ and replacing with a NG.

HTH

TropTrea · 04/26/2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroktheCube

Hmm, perhaps I should just run blues for a bit. I have a bit of long red from 660nm LEDs.

My guess is that part of the problem is that it's such a new tank. Not much competition for anything, and the majority of the non hitchhiking CUC animals have only been added in the past week or two. I'm hardly pulling my hair out over it, I just wanted to nip it in the bud in case it's the dreaded Dinos. There isn't much at all in the way of nutrients going into the tank, other than what would be leaching out of rock (unsurprisingly, the majority of it is growing on dry marco rock), but there also isn't much in the way of things to consume them in such a new tank. PO4 is undetectable with both Red Sea and Hanna, but given most of the growth is on dry marco rock, the stuff may be sucking up all the leached PO4 before it even gets into the water column.

With a new tank there is part of the cycle that ocassional does sprout cyno bactera. But if not gotten under control can become a prolonged issue and get extreme. I know I fought it for months and if I do not regularly chage out my bulbs will start seeing it return even with regular water changes.

Right now I'm doing loads of changes on my system. I have a lot of fear something new will pop up on me. The biggest change now is modifing my 70 gallon refugium, as well as some lighting changes.

Michigan Mike · 04/26/2013, 12:33 PM

Alex I'm tempted to say...
5 blue of your choice
1 purple
1 coral or GE
1 new gen

I'm sure you'll have fun playing with many combos if you ever get more bulbs
I'm interested in the GEISSEMAN lagoon blue bulb.

DragonWarriorPo · 04/26/2013, 04:28 PM

I bought a 8 bulb ATI sun power fixture for a 75 gal. I want more color pop than a bunch of Blue+, especially during dawn/dusk mode. What ATI bulb combination will give me best color pop?

Michigan Mike · 04/26/2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonWarriorPo

I bought a 8 bulb ATI sun power fixture for a 75 gal. I want more color pop than a bunch of Blue+, especially during dawn/dusk mode. What ATI bulb combination will give me best color pop?

If true actinic isnt your thing you pretty much have to move to LEDs.

toofrigginswt · 04/26/2013, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonWarriorPo

I bought a 8 bulb ATI sun power fixture for a 75 gal. I want more color pop than a bunch of Blue+, especially during dawn/dusk mode. What ATI bulb combination will give me best color pop?

I took everyone's advice and added actinics and it's the best bulb combination I have yet. I used two UVL Super Actinics.

DragonWarriorPo · 04/26/2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toofrigginswt

I took everyone's advice and added actinics and it's the best bulb combination I have yet. I used two UVL Super Actinics.

So use actinics instead of purple? Any suggestion on an 8 bulb configuration for ATI?

Michigan Mike · 04/26/2013, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonWarriorPo

So use actinics instead of purple? Any suggestion on an 8 bulb configuration for ATI?

The UV / L Super Actinics are the highest PAR actinic bulb out of all the actinic T5HO bulbs. It may be what your looking for.

What combos have you used before? You want a deep blue look so corals flouresce?

DragonWarriorPo · 04/26/2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

The UV / L Super Actinics are the highest PAR actinic bulb out of all the actinic T5HO bulbs. It may be what your looking for.

What combos have you used before? You want a deep blue look so corals flouresce?

Im inexperienced with T5s. Looking for suggestions.

GroktheCube · 04/26/2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonWarriorPo

I bought a 8 bulb ATI sun power fixture for a 75 gal. I want more color pop than a bunch of Blue+, especially during dawn/dusk mode. What ATI bulb combination will give me best color pop?

In my limited experience, both blue plus and superblue lamps wash out reds and purples a fair amount. They really bring out blues and greens. Actinics don't seem to wash out reds and purples nearly as much. Purple plus bulbs make purples ans even more so reds pop amazingly well. My scarlet hemits almost look like they're glowing under a purple plus bulb. However, at least for me, it has too much yellow in it, especially when combined with my LEDs, which is kinda surprising to me. I just got a coral plus bulb in the mail today that I have yet to try.

TropTrea · 04/26/2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroktheCube

In my limited experience, both blue plus and superblue lamps wash out reds and purples a fair amount. They really bring out blues and greens. Actinics don't seem to wash out reds and purples nearly as much. Purple plus bulbs make purples ans even more so reds pop amazingly well. My scarlet hemits almost look like they're glowing under a purple plus bulb. However, at least for me, it has too much yellow in it, especially when combined with my LEDs, which is kinda surprising to me. I just got a coral plus bulb in the mail today that I have yet to try.

Wow the piurple plus has too mych yellow for you? I use the purple plus to remove the yellow tint from GE 6500 bulbs. I think 2 purple plus to one GE makes a good balance for white. Then I add the Blue Plus to bring out the florescense more, and help coral growth.

The coral plus is fairly close to the purple plus only it has an added small green spike that makes it a little whiter. Blue + Red + Green in equal proportions makes White. The Purple plus is like 3 parts blue and two of red so it comes out a purple. Add a part green for the coral plus and just brightens things slightly.

Michigan Mike · 04/26/2013, 11:21 PM

I guess the coral plus is 15k & the purple plus is closer to 18k ?

GroktheCube · 04/27/2013, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TropTrea

Wow the piurple plus has too mych yellow for you? I use the purple plus to remove the yellow tint from GE 6500 bulbs. I think 2 purple plus to one GE makes a good balance for white. Then I add the Blue Plus to bring out the florescense more, and help coral growth.

The coral plus is fairly close to the purple plus only it has an added small green spike that makes it a little whiter. Blue + Red + Green in equal proportions makes White. The Purple plus is like 3 parts blue and two of red so it comes out a purple. Add a part green for the coral plus and just brightens things slightly.

Hmm, maybe I should give the bulb a chance to burn in more... The particular spots on the rock it was shining might have been a factor too.

akitareefer · 04/27/2013, 03:32 PM

I'm setting up a 8 bulb t5 fixture and trying to plan out which combination to use. I'd like to keep the first grouping of 4 actinic blue and purple and the other grouping of 4 between 10-15k. I don't want my lighting super blue except for dawn and dusk. I also don't want to lose any colors such as the yellow or reds. I plan on using ATI, Giesemann or a mixture of them both. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. I'm making the big switch from MH

stancfii · 04/27/2013, 07:19 PM

Which one is better, the UVL Actinic or ATI true actinic?

Michigan Mike · 04/27/2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroktheCube

Hmm, maybe I should give the bulb a chance to burn in more... The particular spots on the rock it was shining might have been a factor too.

If you have a hanging fixture you can raise it a little bit and move the overbearing bulb, my rocks are high up near the back so I cannot put low kelvin bulbs in the rear or it makes color banding unless I raise the fixture a bit then its not so noticeable.
It depends on a lot of factors- tank width, rock scape, fixture height etc..

GroktheCube · 04/28/2013, 04:09 PM

Thanks for the pointers. Moving the purple bulb to one of the middle positions and raising it a few inches helped a lot. Still not sure what the ideal combo for me is, but I'll figure it out!

TropTrea · 04/29/2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitareefer

I'm setting up a 8 bulb t5 fixture and trying to plan out which combination to use. I'd like to keep the first grouping of 4 actinic blue and purple and the other grouping of 4 between 10-15k. I don't want my lighting super blue except for dawn and dusk. I also don't want to lose any colors such as the yellow or reds. I plan on using ATI, Giesemann or a mixture of them both. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. I'm making the big switch from MH

Here are some estimated Plots of the spectrum with several 8 bulb combo's. The combo with a GE is bluer than a 10K but not as blue as 15K. In your case I would run 3 Blue plus and 1 purple for the dawn to dusk than pull the rest in on the mid day cycle.

04/22/2013, 03:33 AM	#3378
TimeConsumer Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 1,919	Brown snot with bubbles does not necessarily mean dinos. I had what I thought to be a dino outbreak (still don't know for sure, no microscope) years ago. After rounds of Ultra Algae X and blackouts and other remedies I managed to defeat the outbreak. Nowadays I notice very similar looking gunk in my refugium, but with slightly more experience I have come to believe it is cyano, not dinos. In the end, don't make any rash decisions, just keep up your husbandry and wait it out to see what happens. Worst case scenario you could probably find a phytologist at a local university's marine biology department to analyze a sample for you to determine what you really have. __________________ Steve - Retired from reefing, for now.

04/22/2013, 11:02 PM	#3380
TropTrea Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin Posts: 2,910	A few years ago I was pulling out my hair over cyno bacteria. Many people said I had something else since it was not the deep blue green color that is most common. But I found an article on line about it and there was the picture of exactly what I had. Interestingly they listed three things that I needed to check. 1. Phosphates level mine were not readable on the test kit I had but after changing test kits I read about 0.7 ppm. 2. Nitrates, and Nitrites which were not a problem for me. 3. Excessive red light especialy in wave lenght over 660nm. Wow that pinned it for me. MY GE 6,500K bulb was almost 2 years old. From my past experience with that bulb there is gradual increase in the longer wave lenght red part of the spectrum with age and a decrease in the green and blue part of the spectrum. After replacing the GE 6,500K with a new bulb it took about a month for the cyno bacteria to clear up. __________________ Dennis B. Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons

04/26/2013, 04:49 AM	#3383
tegee Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NY Posts: 831	My vote would be, fwiw, (4) Super Blue, (1) New Gen, (1) Coral +, (1) Purple+ and (1) Actinic. I personally would scrap the GE. I have running on a 10 x 80w PM: (6) Blue+, (2) Coral+ and (2) Purple+. I run (2) Blue's on 3 & 8 Dawn/Dusk. I plan on pulling a Coral+ and replacing with a NG. HTH __________________ 180-gl. SPS Miracles Tank 60" x 24" x 29". Lighting is Old School...(3) 250w MH Radiums using M80 ballasts w/ VHO Actinics (2) EcoTech MP60's, 75-gl. Sump, Kalk Reactor, MRC CalRx, Hurricone Skimmer

04/27/2013, 07:19 PM	#3397
stancfii Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 583	Which one is better, the UVL Actinic or ATI true actinic? __________________ 180g SPS -3 x 250w Radiums, 2 x VHO actinic, DIY RB LED strip, and a EuroReef skimmer modded with a DC pump.

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04/22/2013, 12:19 AM	#3377
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	The tank is only a couple months old, but these are definitely dinos and not diatoms. Long brown snots filled with lotsa bubbles. Inorganic nutrients have been undetectable for some time, and other than one or two small patches of turf, and coralline, I haven't had any major algae after the initial diatom bloom died off. I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure it'll fix itself, I've just read enough horror stories about dinos that I'd rather not chance it :-p. I may try a coral plus in place of ones of the blues, or I may shuffle around blue + bulbs and KZ superblue bulbs some more. When the LEDs are at 60%+, the colors are absolutely perfect with two actinics, a superblue, and a blue+ (with the blue+ in the back, next to the 90* optic LEDs). When they're under 40% certain colors (especially deep reds and light purples, it seems) are a little washed out. Adding the purple bulb gets the contrast back, but also tends to make everything a little bit too warm, especially very light colors. That may not be the case as coralline coverage improves over time. The fixture has still dramatically improved color rendition all around, and I'm quite happy with how it looks. I'll just have to experiment a bit to see if I can find a combination that's not blue enough that it starts to wash things out while the LEDs are dim, but still blue enough that it gives me the look and color I want when the LEDs are bright. I think a coral plus bulb might be the ticket, as it looks like it has enough in the green and red wavelengths to even the color out a little bit before the LEDs ramp up, but is still dominantly blue.

04/22/2013, 09:15 AM	#3379
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	Interesting. I had all but ruled out cyano due to the extremely rapid growth, very low DOC/nutrient content of the water, and high flow (~7500 GPH in a 120). The good news is that whatever it is doesn't harm any hermits or snails that much on it. I'm not going to go too crazy over it, but I figure blacking out the tank for a few days, raising the pH by .2, and adding a small amount of peroxide is very unlikely to hurt anything that I want in the tank. Sorry for the derail, I appreciate your input :-). I may look at it under a microscope if it isn't gone when I light the tank up again.

04/23/2013, 03:16 AM	#3381
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	Hmm, perhaps I should just run blues for a bit. I have a bit of long red from 660nm LEDs. My guess is that part of the problem is that it's such a new tank. Not much competition for anything, and the majority of the non hitchhiking CUC animals have only been added in the past week or two. I'm hardly pulling my hair out over it, I just wanted to nip it in the bud in case it's the dreaded Dinos. There isn't much at all in the way of nutrients going into the tank, other than what would be leaching out of rock (unsurprisingly, the majority of it is growing on dry marco rock), but there also isn't much in the way of things to consume them in such a new tank. PO4 is undetectable with both Red Sea and Hanna, but given most of the growth is on dry marco rock, the stuff may be sucking up all the leached PO4 before it even gets into the water column.

04/25/2013, 10:47 PM	#3382
Alex240 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 141	If anyone is interested... I just ordered a 8x80w ATI Sunpower fixture and a WIDE assortment of bulbs to work with. 5 ATI Blue+ 5 KZ Super Blue 2 ATI Purple+ 1 GE 6500 1 KZ New Gen 1 ATI Coral+ 2 ATI True Actinic 1 Giesemann Pure Actinic So 18 bulbs to mix around. I will be able to compare the KZ super blue to the latest ATI Blue+ and many of the other questioned combos. I will do my best to take pics and post them for all. In the plans to test... Feel free to post and recommendations. Should have fixture monday. 5 Super Blue 1 GE 1 Purple 1 Actinic 5 Ati Blue+ 1 GE 1 Purple 1 Actinic 5 Blue 1 GE 1 Coral 1 Actinic 5 Blue 1 Actinic 1 KZ 1 Purple Ect...

04/26/2013, 12:33 PM	#3385
Michigan Mike Freedom costs a buckofive Join Date: May 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	Alex I'm tempted to say... 5 blue of your choice 1 purple 1 coral or GE 1 new gen I'm sure you'll have fun playing with many combos if you ever get more bulbs I'm interested in the GEISSEMAN lagoon blue bulb.

04/26/2013, 04:28 PM	#3386
DragonWarriorPo Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 361	I bought a 8 bulb ATI sun power fixture for a 75 gal. I want more color pop than a bunch of Blue+, especially during dawn/dusk mode. What ATI bulb combination will give me best color pop?

04/26/2013, 11:21 PM	#3394
Michigan Mike Freedom costs a buckofive Join Date: May 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	I guess the coral plus is 15k & the purple plus is closer to 18k ?

04/27/2013, 03:32 PM	#3396
akitareefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 627	I'm setting up a 8 bulb t5 fixture and trying to plan out which combination to use. I'd like to keep the first grouping of 4 actinic blue and purple and the other grouping of 4 between 10-15k. I don't want my lighting super blue except for dawn and dusk. I also don't want to lose any colors such as the yellow or reds. I plan on using ATI, Giesemann or a mixture of them both. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. I'm making the big switch from MH

04/28/2013, 04:09 PM	#3399
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	Thanks for the pointers. Moving the purple bulb to one of the middle positions and raising it a few inches helped a lot. Still not sure what the ideal combo for me is, but I'll figure it out!