N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[recife111]

Bit OT, but: I disagree, strongly even

I believe water chemistry is one aspect of reef keeping where nature is a good model to follow.

I disagree 1000%.
zero nitrate is no good for you tank. seen it so many times on my tank, when nitrate is zero, my corals don't look good. once i add nitrates my corals really sees to pick up.

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by recife111

I disagree 1000%.
zero nitrate is no good for you tank. seen it so many times on my tank, when nitrate is zero, my corals don't look good. once i add nitrates my corals really sees to pick up.

Zero nitrate isn`t my ultimate goal , algea free reefkeeping is .

This summer i`ve went on vacation and i couldn`t dose regular vodka anymore , when i came back NO3 had rised to about 5 ppm (before it fluctuated between 0.2 and 0.5 ppm) , and some specs of GHA that i had before had became much bigger in size after this vacation.
Corals where doing fine then , especialy in terms of growth rate , coloration and PE was much less then with carbon dosing.
With BP i have simular findings then with the regular vodka ,only NO3 has dropped further and GHA has disapeared with the BP`s.
Growth rates are now again a littlebit less then the post vacation period (w/o vodka)

I still have some cyano on one rock , so i think there still will be some NO3 and PO4 availlable (even when undetected with salifer test kits).

This is something to think about :

-I have seen awesome tanks with virtualy no algea , and having nitrates at 10 ppm ?
How is that possible ?
does it have something to do with redfield ratio (molair N/P ratio of 16/1) ?

This is how i keep my freshwater tank completly algea free.

greetingzz tntneon

[NaClH2Opgh]

Originally Posted by tntneon

This is something to think about :

-I have seen awesome tanks with virtualy no algea , and having nitrates at 10 ppm ?
How is that possible ?
does it have something to do with redfield ratio (molair N/P ratio of 16/1) ?

This is how i keep my freshwater tank completly algea free.

greetingzz tntneon

I think a cuc has a lot to do with it also. If you keep your params low enough the cuc or livestock will take care of the algae before it takes hold in your system. IMO, it's not that we don't have it anymore but that we are staying a head of it. Simulating nature and the ocean was mentioned above, well all reefs have algae.

[jptenklooster]

Originally Posted by luther1200

I read in the description they produce CO2, has anybody noticed a large pH drop from running the pellets?

placing the outlet of the pellet filter in front of the skimmer should reduce the drop in pH as a result of CO2 production.

Cheers,

JP

[7hogwarts]

I have been following this thread for a while. It is VERY INTERESTING. If I use this product how soon do I ween my system from GFO and/or carbon? I figure it is probably based on water testing results rather than a timeline. But, I figure I would double check.

[Daniel Reef]

Originally Posted by 7hogwarts

I have been following this thread for a while. It is VERY INTERESTING. If I use this product how soon do I ween my system from GFO and/or carbon? I figure it is probably based on water testing results rather than a timeline. But, I figure I would double check.

I don't have any personal experience with NP, but I spent all day reading this thread and my understanding is that NP is one weapon in your arsenal to fight nitrates and phosphates that should be used along side of GFO and carbon. But again, I am not sure if this is exactly accurate.

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by 7hogwarts

I have been following this thread for a while. It is VERY INTERESTING. If I use this product how soon do I ween my system from GFO and/or carbon? I figure it is probably based on water testing results rather than a timeline. But, I figure I would double check.

I wouldn`t lose the carbon , i`ll keep using it (yellowing of water and coral toxins ).
On the other hand i have an old bag of gfo laying in my sump , over a month i have to replace it be new gfo , but this i`m not gonna do.
My PO4 never has been an issue , so i`ll take the opportunity to leave it out ,will see what the results are.

greetingzz tntneon

[luther1200]

Originally Posted by tatuvaaj

A small drop, yes. If you lower your DOC dosing as you introduce BPs you might not notice any change at all (adding DOC source will also produce CO2).

OK, thank you

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by danch

Has anyone using this product seen bacterial blooms or other 'overdose' effects?

I find this product interesting in that I work out of town during the week, making it difficult to properly observe the tank as I initiate vodka dosing. Asking the wife to feed and top off is one thing; asking her to dose .3 ml vodka and watch out for bacterial blooms and other 'bad effects' is quite another.

I didn`t seen any , if you only use the BP and no other carbon sources are dosed it`s not likely to happen imo.
i can image if one doses additional vodka or other carbons in an excesive way , it could result in a baterial bloom but i never whitnessed that.

greetingzz tntneon

[danch]

Originally Posted by tntneon

I didn`t seen any , if you only use the BP and no other carbon sources are dosed it`s not likely to happen imo.
i can image if one doses additional vodka or other carbons in an excesive way , it could result in a baterial bloom but i never whitnessed that.

greetingzz tntneon

Thanks!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Tatu: Maybe I missed it, but are you tracking phosphate too?

[tatuvaaj]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Tatu: Maybe I missed it, but are you tracking phosphate too?

I do, but I use GFO

I think sand and rocks are still leaching PO4

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, thanks. It will be nice to see if eventually the pellets are adequate for phosphate.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by recife111

I disagree 1000%.
zero nitrate is no good for you tank. seen it so many times on my tank, when nitrate is zero, my corals don't look good. once i add nitrates my corals really sees to pick up.

How are you adding nitrate? I've seen people feed their tank, raising the nitrate level, and coming up with the same conclusion you are here. When it was most likely the added food that caused the improvement. Not the increase in nitrate.

[jmoney]

any updates? I just ordered a liter of these and a warner marine reactor to run them in, hoping to see some good results

[tntneon]

well with me GHA and cyano is completly gone .
Cyano was the thoughest one to compete , patience is the key.
So the pellets have done there job for me (and keep doing that hopefully ...), PE and coloration are very good and are staying the same for a month now.

An other indicator is the cleaning of the glass , this i have to do every 3 to 4 days.
I used to do that almost every day , so that`s a real improvement too.

My chaeto is still green , but is growing very slow , i prune and flush it every week.
I`ll keep it for the little misis shrimp and amphipods that live in the ball , biodiversity is also important.


greetingzz tntneon

[recife111]

How are you adding nitrate?

I either add ammonia or brine shrimp waste water.

When it was most likely the added food that caused the improvement. Not the increase in nitrate.

Unlikely for me as i feed the same foods. i have not increased the foods.
100% for sure that my corals do better with a little nitrate.

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by recife111

...100% for sure that my corals do better with a little nitrate...

I`m conviced that corals do need a small concentration of nitrate , but how small is that ?
I think we can`t (amature reefkeeper) measure precisly how much nitrate/phospate we have in the water / or leaching from rocks in the water.
I measured 0.5 ppm nitrates and zero ppm po4 for month`s but still i had to clean the windows every day and GHA was thriving in the display.
I now look at the days between glass cleaning as an indicator of no3/po4 concentrations : 1-2 days =could be better ; 3 days is good ; 4 or more days = too poor.

greetingzz tntneon

[tntneon]

-Somebody asked earlyer about skimmer performances , now take a look at my DIY skimmer !!
-This morning it was even worse , if you look closely you`ll find there is a small vent hole in the lit ,this morning the foam was actually coming out of the vent hole !!

You see skimmer is working like crazy , i could reduce the foam mass if i install a foam breaker on the inside of the top lit .
this i`ll gonna do later on this week.

greetingzz tntneon

[catman78]

I have a BRS Carbon/GFO reactor that's fed by a maxi-jet 1200.

Can I replace the GFO in 1st canister with NP pellets?

Or should I get a separate reactor for NP pellets.

Also, how much NP pellets per tank volume?

Thanks

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by catman78

I have a BRS Carbon/GFO reactor that's fed by a maxi-jet 1200.

Can I replace the GFO in 1st canister with NP pellets?

Or should I get a separate reactor for NP pellets.

Also, how much NP pellets per tank volume?

Thanks

As for the tank volume / bp ratio , i now use 200 gr on a 30 g (120 liters) system (including sump) and have very good results .
At first i started with 100 gr , after 1.5 month`s i added the following 100 gr.

I don`t know if you can mix GFO with bp .

greetingzz tntneon

[Jk5]

Bacteria has a high afinity for phosphate.

This is the same case with vodka...

In aerobic conditions bacteria uptakes po4.

If you have an unbalanced no3/po4 ratio with too much po4 you can use po4 removers.
If you have a balanced no3/po4 then po4 is needed for the bacterial growth.

[Frogmanx82]

Just to be clear, the whole NP reduction is based on the bacteria themselves being removed from the system. So if I have the biopellets in a canister with no tumbling, I won't slough off much bacteria. A stable bacterial population won't really reduce N or P.

Do the bacterial produce any N2?

Will enough bacteria slough off the pellets from the water flow?

I also have a good number of bristle worms crawling among the pellets. Does that have an effect? Would a bristle worm eat the pellets?

[bertoni]

Some bacteria might release N₂ via endosymbionts. I don't know any way to quantify the amount. Even without tumbling, it's possible that the reactor would slough off a lot of bacteria.

[kaskiles]

Can anyone post the approximate average diameter of the pellets?