N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[timvdb]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

However, I have a strong hint that there is a negative correlation between pH and carbon source over-dosing....

Organic carbon dosing always reduces pH, if that is what you mean.

Randy - give that corals need a minimum level of pH to be able to calcify, do you have a view as to what we should target? This would enable a much better approach to dosing carbon sources? I guess the question is: is there an identified cliff in coral biology below which calcium assimilation is sub-optimal?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, it may be better to be at pH 8.2 to 8.5 from a calcification standpoint for some corals, but many reef tanks do just fine down to pH 7.8. Below that I'd definitely take action as coral skeletons can begin to very slowly dissolve below pH 7.8. My current system runs pH 7.95 to pH 8.1 in the winter.

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

These nutrients are utilized in fixed ratios specific to the subject life-form; for example, it has been referenced in this thread (by TMZ; Post No. 3066) that phytoplankton utilizes 106C:16N:1P; Oxygen was not referenced, but I would assume that it is utilized in a greater proportion than Carbon;

I do not agree that the above ratio (or any fixed ratio) applies to organic carbon dosing, where nitrate may be used a lot more than as a source of N for tissue building. It is also used to provide the oxygen in low O2 environments, like under biofilms on biopellets or inside of live sand or rock.

Hey Randy - Nice to have your expertise on this thread. I agree with you in that there are several avenues along which N is used up. I'm certainly out of my expertise in the realm of chemistry and microbiology, and therefore greatly appreciate some direction from those more formerly trained in the respective disciplines. However, if I were to combine and distill all of the various conversations; written accounts; anecdotes; etc, that I've come across over the years, I would come up with the following:

• Denitrification in a reef tank happens either by process of destruction (as you've described in that bacteria strips away the oxygen from nitrate leaving nitrogen gas) in anaerobic environments; or by process of assimilation (N used to build tissue/dna structures) in aerobic, and to a lesser extent anoxic environments;
  
  According to a conversation I once had with a nutritional scientist, anaerobic life is far less stable than aerobic, this is probably one of the reasons why Dr. Bob Goemans had written that anaerobic/destructive based denitrification is far less efficient than assimilation based denitrification (in his book describing benefits of the anoxic environment created by a Jaubert Plenum for instance)
  
  The processes of all forms of carbon dosing can therefore be said to accommodate all forms of denitrification: firstly by boosting bacterio-plankton populations; which then use all available nutrients in each of the respective O2 environments (abundance thru absence thereof) to survive as bacteria are so good at doing;
  
  So in a sense, we've been focusing on the assimilative aspects of carbon based denitrification (not to forget phosphate processing as well); where in fact the populations of bacteria instigated and maintained by our organic feeding is diverse enough to exploit all available environments present and created within the greater aquarium as well as the pellet reactors (anaerobic micro-environments encapsulated by aerobic bio-films said to form on each pellet); and finally
  
  I think the key point that is not emphasized nearly enough on this topic is that oxygen is a key player in this whole process in that if we consider the fundamental assimilative aspects of carbon dosing - i.e. the fundamental building blocks of tissue/dna: C, N, P, & Oxygen (the last of which probably being used in the greatest proportion); the pH consequence therefore becomes clear. Said another way, if there is a large population of respirating micro-fauna residing in a bp reactor, and throughout an entire aquarium system, the additional demand on O2 needs to be matched by more intense strategies of active O2 saturation so that pH doesn't wind up being the limiting factor regarding the successful implementation of this system.

In one particular system I look after, I was finding that once the pH was consistently below 7.9, calcium was no longer being absorbed by corals, infact they were probably giving Ca back to the water column, as even with the calc reactor off-line, my Ca levels continued to increase (or at least hover above 480-540ppm). In my case, I'm still looking for an efficient way bombard my system with more O2... now that my nitrates are no longer an issue I'm actually considering putting back some bio-balls for the benefits of aeration...

In any event Randy - I'm glad you were able to finally confirm the link b/w pH and carbon dosing in an 'authoritative' way... there's been alot of anecdotal table-tennis going on about it on this thread alone. Personally, I think those who've not had issues with pH while using carbon dosing have ginormous protein skimmers... but I want to experiment with a bio-tower first.. hey stop laughing youz guyz!!

Pls advise further (either confirm/refute) the above synoptic interpretations of this here bacteria babble... Thanks all.

Regards,

Sheldon

[gregr]

Besides adding bio-balls, what other methods of adding O2 are viable? Don't laugh- I'm chemistry-challenged... I can only think of airstones and chopping up the surface with a powerhead (and bio-balls, which I don't have anywhere to put in my system).

[plankton99]

I just received my reef octopus BR-70 cone reactor and am trying to pair it with a maxiJet 1200.

Question 1: does anyone else have this set up?

Question 2: how did you solve the small nozzle on the maxijet to connect to the larger nozzle on the input of the BR-70 reactor?

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by gregr

Besides adding bio-balls, what other methods of adding O2 are viable? Don't laugh- I'm chemistry-challenged... I can only think of airstones and chopping up the surface with a powerhead (and bio-balls, which I don't have anywhere to put in my system).

Ways that I'm aware of:

• Aggressive flow and surface agitation (powerheads directed to the surface of DT and/or sump);
  
  Ozone (expensive & requires proper application);
  
  Large/oversized skimmer (probably the best option where possible); or
  
  Lots of splashing (broken up water) such as achieved by bio-balls

The idea is that you want to encourage as much gaseous exchange as possible. CO2 will leave the water and O2 will be infused. This is provided you don't have high ambient levels of CO2 that is.

SJ

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Skimming and growing macroalgae in a refugium are the best ways to boost O2, IMO, aside from surface agitation.

Eric shows data here:

The Need to Breathe, Part 3: Real Tanks and Real Importance
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by plankton99

I just received my reef octopus BR-70 cone reactor and am trying to pair it with a maxiJet 1200.

Question 1: does anyone else have this set up?

Question 2: how did you solve the small nozzle on the maxijet to connect to the larger nozzle on the input of the BR-70 reactor?

1. never used this type of reactor;

2. most cases, maxi-jet nozzles are up-sized using pieces of flex hose.. i.e. I think the 1/2" (13mm/15mm eheim tubing) fits the nozzle, then a 16/19 or 19/22 ehiem hose can can be fit over top of that; may also benefit from using cable-ties... but to answer your question: work it out with flex tubing.

SJ

[gary faulkner]

Question 2: how did you solve the small nozzle on the maxijet to connect to the larger nozzle on the input of the BR-70 reactor?

This is the fitting you will need. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ct-murlok.html

HTH

[plankton99]

Originally Posted by gary faulkner

Question 2: how did you solve the small nozzle on the maxijet to connect to the larger nozzle on the input of the BR-70 reactor?

This is the fitting you will need. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ct-murlok.html

HTH

Thanks man.

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by gary faulkner

Question 2: how did you solve the small nozzle on the maxijet to connect to the larger nozzle on the input of the BR-70 reactor?

This is the fitting you will need. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ct-murlok.html

HTH

That's what I used to connect my MJ to my carbon reactor. Works great.

[timvdb]

Hi Sheldon and co

After only a couple of days without gfo, po4 is up to 10ppb and nitrates is 25ppm... Corals look much better. They were definitely P restricted. Lets see how these pellets work their wonder now!

[plankton99]

I test drove my Reef Octopus BR-70 Reactor and a new Maxijet 1200. Looks like the maxijet is NOT powerful enought to turn 1/4 cup of pellets!

Here is the test set up


The pellets are clumping on the bottom and the top






The maxijet 1200 is too weak

[Sohal Tang Tim]

You might want to try a mag 3 or mag 5 and dial it back.

I just installed a BR-140 and am using a mag to run it and it works like a dream...I have to dial it back a fair amount however....

Those beads, if only freshly put in...will take 2 days to saturate and get
the air offfffff of them so they sink...then...you should see tumbling action
I would think from the MJ1200....gently shake the reactor side to side...and you will
see them begin to drop after a day or so.....keep doing it till all have dropped..then...see if you get tumbling action... I cannot remember your picture but it seemed like the hose from the MJ1200 was quite long? NOt sure if that length is giving you head length that is cutting down the flow rate of the MJ1200.....someone...can you comment on that? I have no idea...just guessing on that...


Are they new beads?

What pump does the MFG recommend? Check with them they will
be able to tell you some ideal pumps that are already working on
that reactor.

Good luck,

Mine works like a dream...so...once you get the proper flow your
gonna love that thing


Tim

[SimonSKL]

Originally Posted by plankton99

I test drove my Reef Octopus BR-70 Reactor and a new Maxijet 1200. Looks like the maxijet is NOT powerful enought to turn 1/4 cup of pellets!

Here is the test set up

I think the three 90 degree elbows in your setup would reduce your pump efficiency significantly. Can you eliminate the two elbow fittings and make it a straight line?

[plankton99]

Originally Posted by SimonSKL

I think the three 90 degree elbows in your setup would reduce your pump efficiency significantly. Can you eliminate the two elbow fittings and make it a straight line?

I'll try that. You are right, I have 3 elbows. the problem is that the maxijet has such a tiny nozzle and the reactor has the larger one and this was the only way I could get that going.

[evoi19]

Hi Everyone,

I started up some ecobak bio-pellets this week and I'm wondering if this is normal. Ever since i started, I don't have any skimate from my skimmer. There's no foam, and if i turn it up, i get clear skimate into the the collection cup. Is that normal at first? I have the output of the reactor near the pump of the skimmer as others have suggested. I don't see any ill effects on the corals so i'm not sure what's going on. Is it because there's not enough oxygen in the water? Should i add an airstone?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure why you see less skimmate, but there is no reason to think O2 is too low just because you get little organic export via skimming.

[gary faulkner]

My skimmer kept producing and got darker skimate with more solid junk in the collection cup. I would think that something else has your skimmer not producing like maybe having your hands in the tank, feeding or any number of other things. Just give it a little more time. How long have you had the pellets running?

[TheFishMan65]

Did you rinse the pellets first? IIRC there can be a mold release (or something) that can cause problems.

[evoi19]

It's been up and running since Wednesday afternoon. Currently, i only have 250ml in a 90gal and will ramp up over the next two weeks.

I haven't done anything out of the ordinary other than adding the reactor and BP's. I have been feeding every other day and that has been the norm for the past 6 months with no ill effects.

I'm probably overly concerned and but will keep an eye on it.

[Scej12]

Plankton - I agree with Simon and believe that your head pressure is 90% of your problem. A Maxi-jet is not a particular large pump, but I think it would likely work pretty good if you can minimize the difference in height between your (low) water level and reactor height; as well as if you can minimize the friction-loss due to all the hose and elbows. Also, once your pellets get saturated and loose their affinity for air-bubbles they'll move very nicely.

Hey evoi - I've never used that particular brand, but there were early reports, a year ago or so of one particular formula stopping skimmers (the article was on glass box design, and cited too much lipids in one particular batch of the n/p brand). These were recalled, and as far as I know the problem was solved. Yours could be just a matter of allowing time for the pellets to break-in, but I would also check your venturi to ensure it is not blocked with stray pellets or anything - that has happened to me once or twice when a couple of floaters escaped their reactor which was plumbed directly into the skimmer pump.

SJ

[evoi19]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

Did you rinse the pellets first? IIRC there can be a mold release (or something) that can cause problems.

Yes. I soaked them for 24hrs. and rinsed them after. All in ro/di water.

[evoi19]

Here's a picture of my skimmer collection area. It's been like this since Wednesday with nothing being collected. Even the neck looks fairly clean. Is there some sort of break in period with BP's?

[evoi19]

Originally Posted by Scej12

Plankton - I agree with Simon and believe that your head pressure is 90% of your problem. A Maxi-jet is not a particular large pump, but I think it would likely work pretty good if you can minimize the difference in height between your (low) water level and reactor height; as well as if you can minimize the friction-loss due to all the hose and elbows. Also, once your pellets get saturated and loose their affinity for air-bubbles they'll move very nicely.

Hey evoi - I've never used that particular brand, but there were early reports, a year ago or so of one particular formula stopping skimmers (the article was on glass box design, and cited too much lipids in one particular batch of the n/p brand). These were recalled, and as far as I know the problem was solved. Yours could be just a matter of allowing time for the pellets to break-in, but I would also check your venturi to ensure it is not blocked with stray pellets or anything - that has happened to me once or twice when a couple of floaters escaped their reactor which was plumbed directly into the skimmer pump.

SJ

Thanks SJ. I'll look into that article on GB. I have my weekly water change coming up tomorrow, so I think I may pull my skimmer out and check it just in case.