N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by thebanker

Tom if you try that, let us know how it works out. My GFO reactor always gets clogged with detritus. I think a mechanical inline pre-filter would be better right?

Two little fishes has come out with a replacement kit for the black foam filters. Its a plastic template that will also fit the larger of the two reactors
Costs a couple of bucks and it works great
Its designed for the pellets but I have been using it with carbon also with no clog ups

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Scej12

I dose ZeoBak a couple times a week per the recommendation on the bottle. I would probably go with the recommended maintenance dosage for any bacteria source I decide to supplement a carbon dosing regime with.

Regards,

Sheldon

It has been suggested previously that you not dose other organic sources when using the pellets. You could be faced wi.th a bacterial bloom esp in the beginning,

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

It has been suggested previously that you not dose other organic sources when using the pellets. You could be faced wi.th a bacterial bloom esp in the beginning,

Though I don't recall the exact suggestion you are referring to; I do know there was a lot of back and forth about the need for any bacterial supplement at all. In the beginning there were those that insisted that if the pellet distributors didn't mention it; then such supplements should not be required to get the system 'ignited'; but others argued that some form of bac supplement would help those who seemed to be stalled (i.e. no apparent drop in N/P).

I think it can work either way, but I've adopted the original, original theory that if you choose a favourable bacterial strain such as those concocted by Zeovit; Brightwell; or Prodibio, then you stand a better chance of avoiding unfavourable strains of organics thriving bacteria such as cyanobacteria... this came from the original vodka dosing course-corrections.

Over the last 6 mos. or so, I've been successfully dosing Zeobak on two different reefs... a 1000g system employing vodka dosing; and a 500g system using biopellets... prior to engaging the zeobak regime, I experienced cyanobacteria in both. The introduction of zeobak was just a part of a multi-pronged corrective strategy which involved raising pH as well... both systems are now cyano-free while I continue to carbon dose.

So for me, I've had success with supplementing a 'favourable' bacterial source; but I'm sure there are many ways to skin a cat...

SJ

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by Scej12

Over the last 6 mos. or so, I've been successfully dosing Zeobak on two different reefs... a 1000g system employing vodka dosing; and a 500g system using biopellets... prior to engaging the zeobak regime, I experienced cyanobacteria in both. The introduction of zeobak was just a part of a multi-pronged corrective strategy which involved raising pH as well... both systems are now cyano-free while I continue to carbon dose.

So for me, I've had success with supplementing a 'favourable' bacterial source; but I'm sure there are many ways to skin a cat...

SJ

Hi SJ,

Are you dosing with Zeobak just to get the biopellets started or are you using it as a maintanece dose to keep the biopellets working to thier optimal level?

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by Rhodes19

Hi SJ,

Are you dosing with Zeobak just to get the biopellets started or are you using it as a maintanece dose to keep the biopellets working to thier optimal level?

More for maintenance. I think the pellets will work with/without a supplemental bac source; I just use it as an attempt to choose the type of fauna that benefits from my feeding of carbon. It comes from the thinking that many forms of bacteria can and do benefit from carbon dosing (supposedly including cyano). When vodka dosing was new the recommendation came about that we should dose a favourable bacteria source as a measure to out-compete unfavourable strains that could also benefit from feeding/dosing organic carbon. I simply carried the thought over to pellet strategies as well.

[BuckeyeTodd]

Looking for some advice. I am not getting the n/p reduction I was looking for. I'm using BRS pellets, up to full quantity recommended, in a Octopus 110 reactor. I have perfect slow tumble. I have an ATB elegance skimmer, with the reactor flowing directly into skimmer. I'm still running gfo and carbon as I am concerned about n/p levels rising without.

I have been running these for three months, and I'm still reading somewere between 25-50 on Salifert nitrate(which is where I started). Po4 has been .06 with gfo(which is where I started). I'm currently feeding on one day pellets twice and the next day pellets and frozen, so I don't think my feeding is excessive. I recently used a bottle of mb7 to try and kick start these pellets, and am still not getting any noticeable skimmer increase.

What is going on, why am I not getting any results? Should I add more pellets?

[dearmey]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

Two little fishes has come out with a replacement kit for the black foam filters. Its a plastic template that will also fit the larger of the two reactors
Costs a couple of bucks and it works great
Its designed for the pellets but I have been using it with carbon also with no clog ups

Were can you buy this at?

[reeftivo]

BRS but out of stock.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...o-pellets.html

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by Scej12

More for maintenance. I think the pellets will work with/without a supplemental bac source; I just use it as an attempt to choose the type of fauna that benefits from my feeding of carbon. It comes from the thinking that many forms of bacteria can and do benefit from carbon dosing (supposedly including cyano). When vodka dosing was new the recommendation came about that we should dose a favourable bacteria source as a measure to out-compete unfavourable strains that could also benefit from feeding/dosing organic carbon. I simply carried the thought over to pellet strategies as well.

Thanks SJ,

I'll have to look into doing that myself and see if that helps reduce the gha. Makes sense.

[CW from the OC]

Originally Posted by Scej12

More for maintenance. I think the pellets will work with/without a supplemental bac source; I just use it as an attempt to choose the type of fauna that benefits from my feeding of carbon. It comes from the thinking that many forms of bacteria can and do benefit from carbon dosing (supposedly including cyano). When vodka dosing was new the recommendation came about that we should dose a favourable bacteria source as a measure to out-compete unfavourable strains that could also benefit from feeding/dosing organic carbon. I simply carried the thought over to pellet strategies as well.

I've thought it was a waste to dose bacteria, but posts like this have me re-thinking my position. It sure seems to make sence to at least try to develop and grow good bacteria rather than cyano.

Optimally the pellet venders would sell bacteria that is grown and optimzed for their specific pellets. Surprised none of them have developed this product yet, given the high pricing for bacteria in general, especially Zeo.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Scej12

So for me, I've had success with supplementing a 'favourable' bacterial source; but I'm sure there are many ways to skin a cat...

SJ

Exactly and the source you chose depends on whether you want to have the carbon source and bacteria in the tank with vodka dosing for eg and whether you want the bacteria introduced from an external source you can control better as biopellets in a reactor.

[thebanker]

Anyone use TLF pellets? any reports?

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

Exactly and the source you chose depends on whether you want to have the carbon source and bacteria in the tank with vodka dosing for eg and whether you want the bacteria introduced from an external source you can control better as biopellets in a reactor.

I saw a post or two (and do happen to believe) that original claims and/or assumptions that pellet (i.e. solid carbon dosing) strategies are able to limit involved processes to a reactor is not always the case. As indicative of the occassional startup bacterial bloom quite a significant amount of bacterial activity (likely carbon as well) does make it past the reactor and skimmer; even if the carbon food source is intended to stay within the reactor.

I also believe that whatever bac supplement you choose will also help to colonize the pellet reactor as well.... but someone needs to take some real lab equipment to this stuff to firm-up all of the anecdotal discussion.

Regards,

Sheldon

[Scej12]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeTodd

Looking for some advice. I am not getting the n/p reduction I was looking for. I'm using BRS pellets, up to full quantity recommended, in a Octopus 110 reactor. I have perfect slow tumble. I have an ATB elegance skimmer, with the reactor flowing directly into skimmer. I'm still running gfo and carbon as I am concerned about n/p levels rising without.

I have been running these for three months, and I'm still reading somewere between 25-50 on Salifert nitrate(which is where I started). Po4 has been .06 with gfo(which is where I started). I'm currently feeding on one day pellets twice and the next day pellets and frozen, so I don't think my feeding is excessive. I recently used a bottle of mb7 to try and kick start these pellets, and am still not getting any noticeable skimmer increase.

What is going on, why am I not getting any results? Should I add more pellets?

The pellets can be a slow-to-start process, but as many have found on the thread; once they eventually do kick in they work quite well.

I would check to see if your pellets are being consumed, i.e. do you have less total volume within your reactor; and are the individual pellet sizes noticeably smaller. After three months you should be able to notice some tiny remnants of at least some of them. If they look exactly as they did on day one, then perhaps they have not yet been 'ignited' into action. I would try to supplement with a bac source as discussed in the last few posts. I personally use zeobak, because my tanks are service accounts (not my own) so I like something that only requires a few drops twice a week to maintain. I also used a bottle of mb7 in the beginning; but was also constantly fiddling with, and prototyping a reactor simultaneously, and therefore can't say whether my delayed results were because of my tinkering or for any other reason including not having enough pellets (in hindsight I really did need more).

In your case, if you do notice consumption of the pellets, then I would certainly suggest that you can add more to get the results you are looking for; but be cautioned that nothing good in this hobby happens fast... don't act too hastily... So in a nutshell:

1. Check for pellet consumption;
2. If no - dose a bacteria source to help the process get started;
3. If yes - you might not have enough pellets..

Also make sure you don't have any sponges/foam in your reactor that would trap n/p carrying bacteria, and therefore nulify the process; and keep an eye on your pH - when your bacteria filtration system does eventually kick in, it will have a dampening effect on your overall pH (lots of respirating bacteria using up O; C; N; & P, and IMO producing CO2).

Good luck and measure your params regularly through any of your changes.

Regards,

Sheldon

[tmz]

Bacterial supplements are unnecessary ,ime
The carbon source itself will for the most part determine the strains that will act on it. There are a number of steps taking place depending on the carbon source. For an admittedly oversimplified perspective of anaerobic digestion :carbohydrates(polymers ) are broken down to sugars and other monomers, then fermentation and ethanol ,then acetate. By products are created along the way by the various bacteria. some aerobic bacterial activity is likely occuring as well. While in some cases cyano appaers ;it's least likely to benefit from the organic carbon as the types we see in aquariums it is autotrophic, ie photosynthtic and makes its' own organic carbon from CO2 and light. More likely is that it feeds on some bacterial by products or waning algae/phytoplankton or some nutrient declining diatoms or algae would have otherwise been consuming. Adding extra bacteria may create a temporary competition for available nutrients with the cyano but they may also compete with endemic bacteria.All in all, adding them is probably harmless and may or may not accelerate the process.Adding them on an ongoing basis is probably of no value,imo.

[Aquarist007]

[QUOTE=thebanker;19053152]Anyone use TLF pellets? any reports?[/QUOTE

I am using them in about 15 reactors right now. They work great and mix well with other pellets

[larryfl1]

hey all,

I'm sure this has been answered but i prefer not to scan 160 pages...

i am currently using prodibio... mixed reef tank...everything looks good except i have cyano on sand and lps aren't really liking it...

if i switch to pellets...what is the recommended supplement/dosing so that the corals don't starve??

thanks

Larry

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by larryfl1

hey all,

I'm sure this has been answered but i prefer not to scan 160 pages...

i am currently using prodibio... mixed reef tank...everything looks good except i have cyano on sand and lps aren't really liking it...

if i switch to pellets...what is the recommended supplement/dosing so that the corals don't starve??

thanks

Larry

The pellets are great in that they supplement bacteria in the tank which are consumed by the corals
If you are someone doubtful of that theory then the pellets reduce nitrates and phosphates enabling you to feed alot more to the corals and fish

[larryfl1]

is everyone still using the following with the pellets??

refugium?
gfo?
carbon?

also what is the preferred or best reactor and pellets on the market???

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by larryfl1

is everyone still using the following with the pellets??

refugium?
gfo?
carbon?

also what is the preferred or best reactor and pellets on the market???

In my 110 gal:
I am running 2 40 gallon refugiums, dsb's tons of chaeto. I also run carbon in a two little fishes reactor. I have 250 lbs of live rock in the system
I am heavily stocked ---22 fish but have never had a reading of nitrates and phosphates on the system

[Eric The Red]

Hi
I've been usuing biopellets with great success for about a year now. However, I'm getting cyano on my rock for a little over a month now. It appears that some of you have/had cyano outbreaks after using bp's. For those of you who had outbreaks, am I understanding correctly that additional dosing of a bacterial supplement (like MB7 or Zeobak) took care of the cyano? I'm open to any ideas that worked.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Eric The Red

Hi
I've been usuing biopellets with great success for about a year now. However, I'm getting cyano on my rock for a little over a month now. It appears that some of you have/had cyano outbreaks after using bp's. For those of you who had outbreaks, am I understanding correctly that additional dosing of a bacterial supplement (like MB7 or Zeobak) took care of the cyano? I'm open to any ideas that worked.

IMO the cyano is probably due to dead bacteria gathering in a low flow area and or not being removed by skimming.
So I would direct some flow to that area and increase the skimming---skim wet for a bit---and wait it out.

[Rhodes19]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

IMO the cyano is probably due to dead bacteria gathering in a low flow area and or not being removed by skimming.
So I would direct some flow to that area and increase the skimming---skim wet for a bit---and wait it out.

That's what I've been thinking as well. After talking with a friend of mine, I've decided to to take my biopellet reactor off line and see if my cyano and nuisance algae gets better. Our thought is that my skimmer is just not cutting it and even though the biopellets seemed to work initially, it is actually putting out a bigger load than my skimmer can handle. I have a SWC Extream 200 and I'm not at all happy with it. Once I mod it, I'll get the biopellets going again and see what happens.

[Aquarist007]

Originally Posted by Rhodes19

That's what I've been thinking as well. After talking with a friend of mine, I've decided to to take my biopellet reactor off line and see if my cyano and nuisance algae gets better. Our thought is that my skimmer is just not cutting it and even though the biopellets seemed to work initially, it is actually putting out a bigger load than my skimmer can handle. I have a SWC Extream 200 and I'm not at all happy with it. Once I mod it, I'll get the biopellets going again and see what happens.

I believe that skimmer is good for up to 250 gals? What size of tank are you running it on.
That line of skimmers is excellent but I it takes alot of tweaking on them to get them running 100 per cent effeciently. I installed alot of them and in hindsight wish I didn't from a maintenance stand point. They are constantly losing their prime which might be the case in yours?

[JeremyGelber]

My pellets have been doing a really good job and my N and P are both greatly reduced. It was helped by directly plumbing the outlet of the reactor directly into one of the two skimmer pumps in my TS1060.

I have also noticed recently something that can best be described as "rust" developing on some parts of the sand and the rocks. It cycles throughout the day because I have a couple of watchman gobies who sift it, but it doesn't go away.

Is what I've got also cyano? It doesn't look the same as other pictures I've seen but I can't figure what else it might be.

(Picture attached, small section of the bottom left side of my tank - taken with iPhone so not the best unfortunately)