Warner Marine Now Has A Pellet Product

[PowermanKW]

Originally Posted by buy_baff

At the 6 week mark and haven't seen anything remarkable happen. My no3 and po4 are zero on api kits but they were to begin with. My cheato is still growing at a fair pace and I still have to run GFO otherwise I get a diotom bloom on my crushed coral bed. My color is good but not as good as when I was doseing vite c. Groth has been about the same. I still have to clean the glass every other day so no great improvement there. I can't say for sure if i beleave these things take up po4 or not if they did then why is my cheato still growing and why do I still need to run GFO? My no3 has always been zero as well so i'm not convinced these do anything other than give me a diotom bloom I never had before useing them.

I know you have been keeping up and that N and P uptake or export are at different rates and that you may very well need to keep using GFO depending on what your P import is.

I'm sure you also know that N reading zero just means all the N is being taken up but that your N production could still be very high. Crushed coral beds do that. A zero reading of P on a API kit is useless information. Those are only good for gross amounts. I can almost guarantee you it is not zero.

My nutrients were always very low to begin with. It takes about 3 months for my ball of cheato to double in size. I ran GFO and took it off with the pellets. The PO4 was lower than when I ran the GFO. Didn't really see a decrease in glass cleaning which was 3-4 days. Didn't run it long enough to see if my cheato was going to wither and die.

Bacteria will consume N and P and that is well established. Seems at this point that it is established that bio pellets are a food source. Whether it is as good as source as liquid dosing is not sure. How much pellets that is needed to produce the same effects as liquid? All that does not mean that your pellets are not working, but that you may have a excess of nutrients.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by PowermanKW

I know you have been keeping up and that N and P uptake or export are at different rates and that you may very well need to keep using GFO depending on what your P import is.

I'm sure you also know that N reading zero just means all the N is being taken up but that your N production could still be very high. Crushed coral beds do that. A zero reading of P on a API kit is useless information. Those are only good for gross amounts. I can almost guarantee you it is not zero.

My nutrients were always very low to begin with. It takes about 3 months for my ball of cheato to double in size. I ran GFO and took it off with the pellets. The PO4 was lower than when I ran the GFO. Didn't really see a decrease in glass cleaning which was 3-4 days. Didn't run it long enough to see if my cheato was going to wither and die.

Bacteria will consume N and P and that is well established. Seems at this point that it is established that bio pellets are a food source. Whether it is as good as source as liquid dosing is not sure. How much pellets that is needed to produce the same effects as liquid? All that does not mean that your pellets are not working, but that you may have a excess of nutrients.

I was starting to think the same thing! But I will increase the amount of pellets this week when they arrive from Jon. That being said you make a good point as to if these pellets will be as effective as liquid dosing??? I will give them more time and increase the amount used until i have convinced myself one way or the other if they are worth the effort and cost. The con side of the pellets so far seems to be the recurring outbreak of brown Diatoms on the sandbed which at first the Phosban seemed to knock down but it keeps coming back. Even with less feeding more water changes and changing out the media often. I agree that testing can be false info if it's being used as fast as it's added to the water column Po4 that is. Hopefully in time the tipping point will be reached and this will have been worth it
Bill

[MVlk]

Bill, I am in no hurry to switch to the pellets I have... If you want em sooner than ordering, I'll sell/trade mine to ya? Only catch is you need to come get them.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by MVlk

Bill, I am in no hurry to switch to the pellets I have... If you want em sooner than ordering, I'll sell/trade mine to ya? Only catch is you need to come get them.

Dang, I already ordered more from WM they will be here in a couple day's. But if you don't want them i have a buyer in Mel as he needs 1500 ml for my old Coral in his tank.
I'll call you tomorrow, I'm going up to Dustins house to do some maintenence on the 650 gal tank at his parents house.
Bill

[Tigé21v]

Originally Posted by PowermanKW

I know you have been keeping up and that N and P uptake or export are at different rates and that you may very well need to keep using GFO depending on what your P import is.

Seems as if many who dose carbon, whether liquid or solid, need to continue to use GFO to some degree. How much seems to depend on the system. It seems the older the system, the more it is needed.

Originally Posted by PowermanKW

Bacteria will consume N and P and that is well established. Seems at this point that it is established that bio pellets are a food source. Whether it is as good as source as liquid dosing is not sure. How much pellets that is needed to produce the same effects as liquid? All that does not mean that your pellets are not working, but that you may have a excess of nutrients.

I think it has to be a combination of both enough media, but just as important, also flowrate. I think the 100gph/liter may be too slow.

I started running EB this past Saturday. The display is a 90 gallon (very heavily stocked), with around 240 gallons TWV. I'm starting with 1 liter in a BRS dual reactor , with a Maxijet 1200 pushing the water through. I plan on adding another 500 ml after a couple of weeks.
The Maxi is wide open and I'm only getting a little over 100 gph (slow tumbling action). Also, the BRS reactor's chambers are almost overfilled with the just the liter of media. I'm going to pick up a larger reactor, and a larger pump if needed.

[basser1]

Anyone know when these are going to hit the dealers shelves?

Seems like it's the only way I'm going to get my hands on some. Sent WM money via paypal 3 weeks ago and sent follow-up e-mails with no response.

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by basser1

Anyone know when these are going to hit the dealers shelves?

Seems like it's the only way I'm going to get my hands on some. Sent WM money via paypal 3 weeks ago and sent follow-up e-mails with no response.

Call Jon direct and talk to him about it (805) 584-5197 - he really is a nice guy. There's a WM website that is DOA. Emails sent through the site don't go anywhere.

DJ

[drtrash]

I am on my 4th week of ecobak, P was low slight color on salifert but now it is clear, ran GFO for 2 months and could not reach zero, N is low at 10ppm. Had some cyano with GFO and very little is left. Algea on back glass is dying off in patches, so far no negatives only time will tell. Will check N later tonight.

[poolkeeper1]

To order the EB online just send an E-mail to webshop@warnermarine.com and they will tell you how to pay for the order which is 40.00 shipped per 500ml
Bill

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

To order the EB online just send an E-mail to webshop@warnermarine.com and they will tell you how to pay for the order which is 40.00 shipped per 500ml
Bill

I stand corrected, The E-mail should be to warnermarine.com Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Bill

[NaClH2Opgh]

Originally Posted by Tigé21v

Seems as if many who dose carbon, whether liquid or solid, need to continue to use GFO to some degree. How much seems to depend on the system. It seems the older the system, the more it is needed.

I have been dosing vodka for over 2 years and no longer used gfo for the past 12-16 months. I had a 75 gallon that had been running for 5 years. I just took it down this past month and have everything set up in a temp rubbermade until I set my 220 up. I ma currently still dosing vodka/mb7 but will be giving the eco bak a shot in the temp system. I think the exact opposite is true if you dose and have been for some time there is a good chance you don't need GFO.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by NaClH2Opgh

I have been dosing vodka for over 2 years and no longer used gfo for the past 12-16 months. I had a 75 gallon that had been running for 5 years. I just took it down this past month and have everything set up in a temp rubbermade until I set my 220 up. I ma currently still dosing vodka/mb7 but will be giving the eco bak a shot in the temp system. I think the exact opposite is true if you dose and have been for some time there is a good chance you don't need GFO.

Agreed, My last large tank i dosed for several years and never ran any GFO.
The only thing i did run was Rox carbon and only once in a while. Never had any issues other than the Cyano that appeared every now and then. Hopefully the pellet will in the long run work the same. I think it's a matter of getting the correct amount for your bio load and it should work fine.
Bill

[buy_baff]

Originally Posted by NaClH2Opgh

I have been dosing vodka for over 2 years and no longer used gfo for the past 12-16 months. I had a 75 gallon that had been running for 5 years. I just took it down this past month and have everything set up in a temp rubbermade until I set my 220 up. I ma currently still dosing vodka/mb7 but will be giving the eco bak a shot in the temp system. I think the exact opposite is true if you dose and have been for some time there is a good chance you don't need GFO.

I agree. I just don't think these are liveing up to other doseing options at least not so far that is.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by buy_baff

I agree. I just don't think these are liveing up to other doseing options at least not so far that is.

I just got finished adding another 250ml of EB to my system for a total of 750ml. I have a 59gal tank,40gal sump, 30gal frag tank, and a skimmer that holds another 5gals of water. The system is way overloaded with SPS and I think i just didn't have enough for my bio load in there before. I will give it another 6 weeks to fully colonize the new EB and see how everything looks at that time.
I have seen great results so far just have a little brown diatoms pop up on the sandbed once in a while, If that now goes away i consider this a winner.
Bill

[buy_baff]

Yea I guess I may just need to add some more to the reactor. It should hold around another 250ml.

[tmz]

I've dosed vodka and vinegar for about 19months. I still need gfo but less of it than before.Many still use it with carbon dosing to keep PO4 levels low ,ie. <0.05ppm, particulary in tanks with rlatively high bioloads.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by tmz

I've dosed vodka and vinegar for about 19months. I still need gfo but less of it than before.Many still use it with carbon dosing to keep PO4 levels low ,ie. <0.05ppm, particulary in tanks with rlatively high bioloads.

That's the key, That you need less or none at all, I hope. EB in the long run will be cheaper than GFO by a mile.
Bill

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

That's the key, That you need less or none at all, I hope. EB in the long run will be cheaper than GFO by a mile.
Bill

...and much less of a PIA than dosing.

DJ

[Stuart60611]

I agree that you need to find a balance for your given system both in terms of the amount of ecobak you are using and achieving the correct flow through the media. I was using 1 liter in my extremely heavily stocked 125 (140 gallon estimated total water volume with sump). I was using the liter in a large GEO 420 reactor (holds up to 2 liters). I was geting very uneven flow throughout the media. The liter seemed to keep things in check, but I did not notice any major algae die off. I added another 500 ml for a total of 1.5 liters and fully opened up my pump so that I am pushing 620 gph through 1.5 liters in my reactor. The flow now is very even and am geting a nice light boil. I am now geting some major algae die off. Moreover, I have not cleaned my glass in over 1 week where before with dosing insane amounts of vodka daily (60 ml) and biodigest weekly I had to clean my glass every few days. I have not tested my nitrate or phosphate either before or after adding ecobak b/c I think the exercise would be pointless in light of the algae giving me false readings, but my visual observation of the tank seems to suggest it is now working well. Certainly not scientific, but that is my perception.

[tmz]

...and much less of a PIA than dosing.

DJ

Maybe.
Vodka and vinegar are easy to dose(measure it out and pour it in) at feeding time and they are very pure forms of \organic carbon and utimately acetate with a long history to review for any adverse effects. No reactors ,etc.
I'm mildly concerned about the long term effects of polyesters in the system,since I'm not confident that the pellets are fully self contained. I hope they continue to prove out since they look like a great way to manage NO3 and some PO4.

[buy_baff]

I'm going to get another 500ml and add half of it to my reactor and see what happens. I must admit my tank is verry heavily stocked.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

I agree that you need to find a balance for your given system both in terms of the amount of ecobak you are using and achieving the correct flow through the media. I was using 1 liter in my extremely heavily stocked 125 (140 gallon estimated total water volume with sump). I was using the liter in a large GEO 420 reactor (holds up to 2 liters). I was geting very uneven flow throughout the media. The liter seemed to keep things in check, but I did not notice any major algae die off. I added another 500 ml for a total of 1.5 liters and fully opened up my pump so that I am pushing 620 gph through 1.5 liters in my reactor. The flow now is very even and am geting a nice light boil. I am now geting some major algae die off. Moreover, I have not cleaned my glass in over 1 week where before with dosing insane amounts of vodka daily (60 ml) and biodigest weekly I had to clean my glass every few days. I have not tested my nitrate or phosphate either before or after adding ecobak b/c I think the exercise would be pointless in light of the algae giving me false readings, but my visual observation of the tank seems to suggest it is now working well. Certainly not scientific, but that is my perception.

I like you would rather use observation of my tank to judge results. I like the idea of speeding up the flow some what to get an even tumbling of the EB and will look around for a pump stronger than the Maxijet 1200 on my BRS duel reactor that I'm using now. I think a Quiet One 3000 may be a good choice to run a little more flow but not too much
Bill

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

I like you would rather use observation of my tank to judge results. I like the idea of speeding up the flow some what to get an even tumbling of the EB and will look around for a pump stronger than the Maxijet 1200 on my BRS duel reactor that I'm using now. I think a Quiet One 3000 may be a good choice to run a little more flow but not too much
Bill

Bill:

The added flow is not what I believe caused the flow to even out. I tried fully opening up my pump to 620 GPH when only using a liter in my reactor and still had uneven flow. What evened out my flow appears to be the addition of more media so that that my reactor does not have so much unused space. I need the full 620 gph to fluidize 1.5 liters on my large wide diameter reactor, but I do not think the additional flow is what evened the flow.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

Bill:

The added flow is not what I believe caused the flow to even out. I tried fully opening up my pump to 620 GPH when only using a liter in my reactor and still had uneven flow. What evened out my flow appears to be the addition of more media so that that my reactor does not have so much unused space. I need the full 620 gph to fluidize 1.5 liters on my large wide diameter reactor, but I do not think the additional flow is what evened the flow.

Understood, But my first chamber is almost full and the second one is half way, in my reactor the 1/2 full one fluidized real well but the full one does not.
It seem the older the pellets get the more sticky they seem and tend to channel somewhat, which they did not do in the beginning. The MJ is wide open and does not move it around very much at all. I figure it can't hurt and I'll be able to dial it back some if needed. It's all guessing at this point and like everything else in this hobby it's trail and error.
Bill

[Rizup]

Originally Posted by buy_baff

I'm going to get another 500ml and add half of it to my reactor and see what happens. I must admit my tank is verry heavily stocked.

How much are you running right now? I have been running about 750ml or so on my 90g and haven't noticed a decrease in Nitrates yet. Pellets have been in the system for a little over 3 weeks now.