Pictures of Bomber's barebottom SPS tank and related equipment - Page 19

melev · 01/06/2005, 09:45 AM

I really need to do that myself.

Bomber · 01/06/2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Have you ever taken rock out of your existing tank to cook, so you can reuse it later? Or only with the new rock coming in?

Sure, Greg's rock is my old rock.

we just cooked it again before he used it.

If you run the system nutrient poor, the rock will shed detritus.

If you run the system nutrient rich, the rock will suck it up.

Rothie · 01/06/2005, 10:55 AM

Bomber-
I am confused by these 2 statements-
"Even if you go DSB, I've never understood not "cooking" the rock."

"The first thing a DSB does is create a nutrient poor system as it gets established. It needs those nutrients to work. People add live rock that's full of nutrients associated with all that "life".

Does a DSB need nutrient rich rock to become established?

I am setting up 2 tanks,one DSB,the other BB.I am using dry base rock from www.reeferrocks.com in the BB-this is supposed to be mined coral rock from the Bahamas I believe.Will this rock still be full of phosphates?

Bomber · 01/06/2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothie
Does a DSB need nutrient rich rock to become established?

Nope

Sediments hold, retain, and tightly recycle phosphorus compounds. They also retain fine particulates. Both of those things would come from nutrient rich rock.

Those two things, either separate or together, contribute to the imbalance in aerobic to anaerobic. That imbalance is what causes sediments to leak.

Adding a lot of either one of those in the very beginning will just speed up the process.

Rothie · 01/06/2005, 11:26 AM

Bomber-
"Adding a lot of either one of those in the very beginning will just speed up the process."

What process is getting sped up?
Should the base rock in the BB be cooked also?

Bomber · 01/06/2005, 12:05 PM

It would probably be a huge help if the hobby experts either understood or explained how the nitrogen cycle and denitrification really worked, instead of leading you guys down the wrong path from the get go.

Leaky sediments, Rothie

gumbybc · 01/06/2005, 02:35 PM

is there a forum that explains rock cooking? I have been following along with your discussion, but can't get a grasp on exactly what rock 'cooking' is. Thanks.

Rothie · 01/06/2005, 02:43 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=cooking+rock
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=437342
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

Rothie · 01/06/2005, 03:23 PM

Bomber
"It would probably be a huge help if the hobby experts either understood or explained how the nitrogen cycle and denitrification really worked, instead of leading you guys down the wrong path from the get go."

Hobby Experience: 50 yrs +
I was counting on you to be the expert!

After7 years in FW and 4 years in reefing,I thought I had a grip on the nitrogen cycle.I guess not.The reason I read these boards is to get a better understanding of the hobby, and to see what changes are taking place.I also have a decent library and keep up with the online reef magazines.Why would information about denitrification and the nitrogen cycle be kept a secret?I seem to get more confused each day(might have something to do with age).
I was going to set up a 300 with a barebottom and base rock for SPS, and a 125 with a DSB and "cooked" rock for LPS,but I guess it would be a great waste of time and effort,if I really don't understand what I am doing.
If you have time to be my mentor,shoot me a PM.I could use the help.

gumbybc · 01/07/2005, 02:16 AM

thanks rothie

musicsmaker · 01/07/2005, 05:48 PM

Those are some nice pics back on page 14. A couple of them show obvious growth. I wish I could see a BB tank in person.

jfloydr · 07/26/2005, 06:07 PM

I know that you recomment 3 ceriths to 1 astrea, but how many do I need in a starboard 90 gallon? Will 50 cerith and 17 astreas be too much?

Also KeysCritters lists turbosand astreas together. Are they the same thing or just same price?

Thanks,
Jeff

jfloydr · 07/26/2005, 06:12 PM

I know that you recomment 3 ceriths to 1 astrea, but how many do I need in a starboard 90 gallon? Will 50 cerith and 17 astreas be too much?

Also KeysCritters lists turbos and astreas together. Are they the same thing or just same price?

Thanks,
Jeff

Bomber · 07/26/2005, 06:24 PM

HicCup! the famous double post. LOL

In Florida and the Caribbean everyone calls them turbos, astrea, astraea, starsnails, etc. They are the same thing, a tropical snail that eats a lot of algae.

In my 450 I have about 300 astrea and 4-500 ceriths, I had a lot more when I first set it up because you can get more algae at first. Now the tank has "aged" and mine mostly just sit around.

jfloydr · 07/26/2005, 08:41 PM

So 100 cerith and 30 astreas? Sounds like a lot. Better more than not enough.

susieQ · 07/26/2005, 09:29 PM

Hey Bomber!
I converted to starboard 5-6 months ago but am still having problems. I only had time to skim this thread so I hope I'm not asking an already answered question. My rock is still spitting like crazy. I now have some macros (maybe 4 different types) growing. I never had this before. Is this a sign that I might be nearing the end of the nuisance algae war?
I really can't take much more. 2 fish in a 63g, 4 powerheads on the bottom still not giving me the right flow, green where purple should be, etc. Uggggghhhhhh! This isn't a hobby right now and hasn't been for the last year. I just want my pretty tank back.

Thanks for any info!

melev · 07/26/2005, 10:34 PM

Hey Susie, I recommend a nice DSB.

Okay, sorry... I know that is off topic in this thread.

I'm sure Bomber will be able to help you get things back on track. If he doesn't, contact me.

tankslave · 07/27/2005, 12:54 AM

Bomber, couple of quick questions:

-Have you replaced your MH bulbs yet? or are they 3 years old now...

-Also, what brand MH bulbs do you use?
-I know this has been overly discussed, but im just curioius if you knew what PAR values your corals are getting. After switching to BB, I've finally beat off the hair algae, but my corals are still growing brown.

Lastly, anyone know where to get the URI bulbs?

NuclearReefs · 07/27/2005, 08:32 AM

You mean this thread finally split?

Man Jerel , your gonna have to hurry up and catch marc...

TankSlave,
What Kinda skimmer is that you have? Is it a beckett,downdraft? etc..... Looking at your equipment list looks like you all in the right ball park, but if your water is to high in nutrients your going to have browns.thats why im questioning the skimmer.....I dont mind brown acros personally as long as they grow...

Nathan

Bomber · 07/27/2005, 08:51 AM

LOL Marc is a glutton.

ts, I still haven't changed the bulbs, Ushio 250 10ks, have no idea about Par, and I get the URI's from Ken at Marine Depot.

Bomber · 07/27/2005, 08:53 AM

Susie, that's why so many of us "cook" the rocks first. Keeping them in the dark lets them become bacterial driven, then you clean that bacterial detritus out until it stops.
You're lighting yours so they are algae driven.

It will stop though.

susieQ · 07/27/2005, 11:51 AM

Thanks for more info Bomber! Does the presence of new, good macro algae signal a shift in the tank?

Melev-Wow! Your website and tanks are impressive. I had a dsb for about 4 years and when the HA started and didn't stop, I decided to remove it. Actually, the dsb didn't appear to be in bad shape. I didn't have the stench everyone talked about. Also, the majority of the sand under the top layer looked new. The dsb did, however, keep a lot of detritus collected. Every time I moved a piece of LR, I saw all the crap caught up in that area. (p.s. thanks for the offer to help. I may just be contacting you soon

)

I think one of my problems is flow. I don't have a sump and rely on ph to get things mixed up. Which I don't think is working too well...

Susie

Cluckr7 · 07/27/2005, 12:17 PM

Hey, awesome tank btw.

This is kinda a noob question, but what kind of water conditions are ideal for LPS? Do they thrive in nutrient rich water or low-nutrient conditions?

raddogz · 07/27/2005, 01:00 PM

fwiw - I kept one LPS in my nano at work (not bare-bottom), and the tissue started to recede on the frogspawn's head. I decided to take it home and with better lighting, water, and flow and it is now coming back.

The only thing that does not grow like a weed is gsp in my tank at home but grows reasonably well in my nutrient rich water - nano tank.

Chip Douglas · 07/27/2005, 01:09 PM

Bomber -

How do you like the icecap digital timers? I just went to look for them on their site and it says they've been discontinued since 10-28-2003 ?? It says they are in the process of developing a new one. Is there anything else you would trust to use in their place for placing metal halides on a timer?

01/06/2005, 02:35 PM	#457
gumbybc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CA Redding/Antioch Posts: 850	is there a forum that explains rock cooking? I have been following along with your discussion, but can't get a grasp on exactly what rock 'cooking' is. Thanks. __________________ -Brandon- Fox's newest reality show 'Fast animals, slow children.'

01/07/2005, 02:16 AM	#460
gumbybc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CA Redding/Antioch Posts: 850	thanks rothie __________________ -Brandon- Fox's newest reality show 'Fast animals, slow children.'

01/07/2005, 05:48 PM	#461
musicsmaker Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 3,059	Those are some nice pics back on page 14. A couple of them show obvious growth. I wish I could see a BB tank in person. __________________ "The best threads rest with The Ancients..." - The Ancients.

07/26/2005, 09:29 PM	#466
susieQ Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 185	Hey Bomber! I converted to starboard 5-6 months ago but am still having problems. I only had time to skim this thread so I hope I'm not asking an already answered question. My rock is still spitting like crazy. I now have some macros (maybe 4 different types) growing. I never had this before. Is this a sign that I might be nearing the end of the nuisance algae war? I really can't take much more. 2 fish in a 63g, 4 powerheads on the bottom still not giving me the right flow, green where purple should be, etc. Uggggghhhhhh! This isn't a hobby right now and hasn't been for the last year. I just want my pretty tank back. Thanks for any info! __________________ Survival of the fittest, yes, but not in Susie's tank!

07/27/2005, 12:54 AM	#468
tankslave Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Jose Posts: 1,893	Bomber, couple of quick questions: -Have you replaced your MH bulbs yet? or are they 3 years old now... -Also, what brand MH bulbs do you use? -I know this has been overly discussed, but im just curioius if you knew what PAR values your corals are getting. After switching to BB, I've finally beat off the hair algae, but my corals are still growing brown. Lastly, anyone know where to get the URI bulbs? __________________ Whoever said fishkeeping will lower your blood pressure never had a reef aquarium... "A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought." -Lord Peter Wimsey, "Gaudy Night" Current Tank Info: Tankless Reefer

01/06/2005, 09:45 AM	#451
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I really need to do that myself.

01/06/2005, 10:55 AM	#453
Rothie Registered Member. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,277	Bomber- I am confused by these 2 statements- "Even if you go DSB, I've never understood not "cooking" the rock." "The first thing a DSB does is create a nutrient poor system as it gets established. It needs those nutrients to work. People add live rock that's full of nutrients associated with all that "life". Does a DSB need nutrient rich rock to become established? I am setting up 2 tanks,one DSB,the other BB.I am using dry base rock from www.reeferrocks.com in the BB-this is supposed to be mined coral rock from the Bahamas I believe.Will this rock still be full of phosphates?

01/06/2005, 11:26 AM	#455
Rothie Registered Member. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,277	Bomber- "Adding a lot of either one of those in the very beginning will just speed up the process." What process is getting sped up? Should the base rock in the BB be cooked also?

01/06/2005, 12:05 PM	#456
Bomber 10 & Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 10,550	It would probably be a huge help if the hobby experts either understood or explained how the nitrogen cycle and denitrification really worked, instead of leading you guys down the wrong path from the get go. Leaky sediments, Rothie

01/06/2005, 02:43 PM	#458
Rothie Registered Member. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,277	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=cooking+rock http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=437342 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

01/06/2005, 03:23 PM	#459
Rothie Registered Member. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,277	Bomber "It would probably be a huge help if the hobby experts either understood or explained how the nitrogen cycle and denitrification really worked, instead of leading you guys down the wrong path from the get go." Hobby Experience: 50 yrs + I was counting on you to be the expert! After7 years in FW and 4 years in reefing,I thought I had a grip on the nitrogen cycle.I guess not.The reason I read these boards is to get a better understanding of the hobby, and to see what changes are taking place.I also have a decent library and keep up with the online reef magazines.Why would information about denitrification and the nitrogen cycle be kept a secret?I seem to get more confused each day(might have something to do with age). I was going to set up a 300 with a barebottom and base rock for SPS, and a 125 with a DSB and "cooked" rock for LPS,but I guess it would be a great waste of time and effort,if I really don't understand what I am doing. If you have time to be my mentor,shoot me a PM.I could use the help.

07/26/2005, 06:07 PM	#462
jfloydr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Salem, VA Posts: 1,427	I know that you recomment 3 ceriths to 1 astrea, but how many do I need in a starboard 90 gallon? Will 50 cerith and 17 astreas be too much? Also KeysCritters lists turbosand astreas together. Are they the same thing or just same price? Thanks, Jeff

07/26/2005, 06:12 PM	#463
jfloydr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Salem, VA Posts: 1,427	I know that you recomment 3 ceriths to 1 astrea, but how many do I need in a starboard 90 gallon? Will 50 cerith and 17 astreas be too much? Also KeysCritters lists turbos and astreas together. Are they the same thing or just same price? Thanks, Jeff

07/26/2005, 06:24 PM	#464
Bomber 10 & Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 10,550	HicCup! the famous double post. LOL In Florida and the Caribbean everyone calls them turbos, astrea, astraea, starsnails, etc. They are the same thing, a tropical snail that eats a lot of algae. In my 450 I have about 300 astrea and 4-500 ceriths, I had a lot more when I first set it up because you can get more algae at first. Now the tank has "aged" and mine mostly just sit around.

07/26/2005, 08:41 PM	#465
jfloydr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Salem, VA Posts: 1,427	So 100 cerith and 30 astreas? Sounds like a lot. Better more than not enough.

07/26/2005, 10:34 PM	#467
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Hey Susie, I recommend a nice DSB. Okay, sorry... I know that is off topic in this thread. I'm sure Bomber will be able to help you get things back on track. If he doesn't, contact me.

07/27/2005, 08:32 AM	#469
NuclearReefs Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida Posts: 2,606	You mean this thread finally split? Man Jerel , your gonna have to hurry up and catch marc... TankSlave, What Kinda skimmer is that you have? Is it a beckett,downdraft? etc..... Looking at your equipment list looks like you all in the right ball park, but if your water is to high in nutrients your going to have browns.thats why im questioning the skimmer.....I dont mind brown acros personally as long as they grow... Nathan __________________ Kalkwasser in Coffee Current Tank Info: 125 RR SPS, LED's & T-5 O3's

07/27/2005, 08:51 AM	#470
Bomber 10 & Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 10,550	LOL Marc is a glutton. ts, I still haven't changed the bulbs, Ushio 250 10ks, have no idea about Par, and I get the URI's from Ken at Marine Depot.

07/27/2005, 08:53 AM	#471
Bomber 10 & Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 10,550	Susie, that's why so many of us "cook" the rocks first. Keeping them in the dark lets them become bacterial driven, then you clean that bacterial detritus out until it stops. You're lighting yours so they are algae driven. It will stop though.

07/27/2005, 11:51 AM	#472
susieQ Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 185	Thanks for more info Bomber! Does the presence of new, good macro algae signal a shift in the tank? Melev-Wow! Your website and tanks are impressive. I had a dsb for about 4 years and when the HA started and didn't stop, I decided to remove it. Actually, the dsb didn't appear to be in bad shape. I didn't have the stench everyone talked about. Also, the majority of the sand under the top layer looked new. The dsb did, however, keep a lot of detritus collected. Every time I moved a piece of LR, I saw all the crap caught up in that area. (p.s. thanks for the offer to help. I may just be contacting you soon ) I think one of my problems is flow. I don't have a sump and rely on ph to get things mixed up. Which I don't think is working too well... Susie __________________ Survival of the fittest, yes, but not in Susie's tank!

07/27/2005, 12:17 PM	#473
Cluckr7 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 469	Hey, awesome tank btw. This is kinda a noob question, but what kind of water conditions are ideal for LPS? Do they thrive in nutrient rich water or low-nutrient conditions?

07/27/2005, 01:00 PM	#474
raddogz Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,167	fwiw - I kept one LPS in my nano at work (not bare-bottom), and the tissue started to recede on the frogspawn's head. I decided to take it home and with better lighting, water, and flow and it is now coming back. The only thing that does not grow like a weed is gsp in my tank at home but grows reasonably well in my nutrient rich water - nano tank. __________________ Eileen If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style. - Quentin Crisp Current Tank Info: 180g Reef

07/27/2005, 01:09 PM	#475
Chip Douglas Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 834	Bomber - How do you like the icecap digital timers? I just went to look for them on their site and it says they've been discontinued since 10-28-2003 ?? It says they are in the process of developing a new one. Is there anything else you would trust to use in their place for placing metal halides on a timer?