Any progress on Cuttlefish in the USA? - Page 2

vegetell425 · 02/11/2003, 12:24 PM

i have had a cuttlefish since jan. 7th. she is on her way out soon because she is laying groups of eggs everywhere. ive been getting so much different info from everyone that it possiable the eggs could be fertiale and also that they cant. ive did some research and it sayed the male puts a packet of sperm in. my first group of eggs was a good bit ago and now she had two more groups with a total of 30 eggs or so. Should i cut open one of the first laid eggs to see if anything is going on. I know if it is then im killing one but it would greatly help me prepare for them if i knew if im going to have cuttlefish babys soon. so should i cut one egg open to see if anything is happing?

cephalopoder · 02/11/2003, 08:44 PM

I would leave the eggs alone and and just plan on getting as much food as you can. Take a look in the thread breeding O.bimaculoides. There is a picture of one weeks worth of food for hatchling cephs. Now multiply that by 12 weeks and thats what you will need to get these guys to make it. Now post some pics! If you have bandensis eggs you need to take some pics so it can be documented.

johnrags1234 · 02/12/2003, 03:06 PM

wow vegetell this is realy exciting! Be sure to keep us updated

wrasseman1 · 02/24/2003, 02:18 AM

hey sorry I did not get back earlier computer problems. Any way the reason I got my cuttle so cheap ($8.00) is that I work at my LFS and we trans-ship marines, so are prices are lower than if we went through a wholesaler. I still am no quite sure which spcies I have but do know that it seems very happy in its' 60 gallon tank eating all the ghost shrimp and guppies it wants. I would post pics but don't own a digital camera or scanner and have not figured out how to load pictures from a picture disc.( kinda lame huh) I will keep you all posted.

GeNeSISSIE · 03/28/2003, 01:00 AM

Man oh man, I want to raise a cuttle so bad....

BigLuke · 03/29/2003, 07:50 PM

If cuttlefish are shipped and handled properly they do FINE in aquaria, so S. bandensis is not hard to keep .. it most likely is sensitive to shipping as evidenced by the fact that 99% of shippers in these 3rd world countries don't know how or don't have the capability, to ship them properly.

Quote:

The main problem with cuttles from bali and that part of the world is cyanide use during collection. I have delt directly with CA importes of these animals and 0ver 90% die on arrival.

Hold on a second ... where is the EVIDENCE that cyanide is involved here? Please, don't perpetuate the myth that high shipping morts are due to cyanide use when improper shipping and handling are more than likely the cause. Cyanide is used WAY too often as a crutch to blame deaths on.

Time for a reality check here.

BigL

OctoMonkey · 03/30/2003, 03:21 AM

Its a well known fact that many of the 'unexplained' deaths that occur in the trade are due to cyanide catches. So it's not so much myth as reality. Fortunetly many people are refusing to buy from these collectors and that is through education. So far i have no evidence but after shipping stress it seems the most likely.

Keeping cephs as pets is still quite a recent thing as far as we are concerend and still considered quite bizarre by LFS's so there is still much for us to learn about how cephs are packed and shipped. Over the last three years I have only had one octopus DOA and one that dies within two days of arrival. Thats out of about 20 cephs.

i also think that shiiping is what causes the high rate of deaths.

A problem with saying that bandensis do FINE in aquaria is that most imported specimens are adult and therefore may only do fine until they die of old age 2 weeks later!

I dont think they seen ideal for the trade unless someone can captive breed them properly.

Colin

cephalopoder · 03/30/2003, 08:45 AM

The use of cyanide during collection for cephalopods is mentioned in the book "Realm of the Pygmy Seahorse"
by Constantinos Petrinos. This is a excellent book that covers the marine animal trade in indonesia.

Gonodactylus · 03/30/2003, 12:18 PM

Without testing, it is difficult to tell whether an animal that you just purchased died of cyanide poisoning, some other poison, stress from improper handling, disease, old age or some other cause. On the other hand, I've worked in Indondesia, have several colleagues who do research there, and there is no question that some collectors will use anything they can to get animals out of the reef or substrate. Sometimes this has little effect such as when they use vineger to collect octopus or clove oil to take fish (although in my experience clove oil and octopus don't mix). However more often than not they are using bleach or cyanide to collect fish and the invertebrates such crustaceans and cephalopods are a bycatch. No collector is going to pass up some easy change so if the animals survive to the purchase point, they are sold. If they don't, they are tossed.

From my experience with stomatopods, animals stress by improper shipping practices look to be in poor conditions from the point of arrival and don't recover. Animals that were exposed to cyandid act fine for a few days and then die. I have never purchased cuttles, so I don't know if they behave the same way, but I can tell you that blue-ringed octopus taken with cyanide do.

Roy

02/11/2003, 08:44 PM	#27
cephalopoder Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NH Posts: 898	I would leave the eggs alone and and just plan on getting as much food as you can. Take a look in the thread breeding O.bimaculoides. There is a picture of one weeks worth of food for hatchling cephs. Now multiply that by 12 weeks and thats what you will need to get these guys to make it. Now post some pics! If you have bandensis eggs you need to take some pics so it can be documented. __________________ Master the food chain and you can rear anything.

03/28/2003, 01:00 AM	#30
GeNeSISSIE Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 85	Man oh man, I want to raise a cuttle so bad.... __________________ Matt gns5824@yahoo.com, gns5824@phreaker.net

03/30/2003, 03:21 AM	#32
OctoMonkey Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Larkhall, Scotland Posts: 694	Its a well known fact that many of the 'unexplained' deaths that occur in the trade are due to cyanide catches. So it's not so much myth as reality. Fortunetly many people are refusing to buy from these collectors and that is through education. So far i have no evidence but after shipping stress it seems the most likely. Keeping cephs as pets is still quite a recent thing as far as we are concerend and still considered quite bizarre by LFS's so there is still much for us to learn about how cephs are packed and shipped. Over the last three years I have only had one octopus DOA and one that dies within two days of arrival. Thats out of about 20 cephs. i also think that shiiping is what causes the high rate of deaths. A problem with saying that bandensis do FINE in aquaria is that most imported specimens are adult and therefore may only do fine until they die of old age 2 weeks later! I dont think they seen ideal for the trade unless someone can captive breed them properly. Colin __________________ ...and the Earth died screaming, while I lay dreaming.

03/30/2003, 08:45 AM	#33
cephalopoder Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NH Posts: 898	The use of cyanide during collection for cephalopods is mentioned in the book "Realm of the Pygmy Seahorse" by Constantinos Petrinos. This is a excellent book that covers the marine animal trade in indonesia. __________________ Master the food chain and you can rear anything.

02/11/2003, 12:24 PM	#26
vegetell425 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22	i have had a cuttlefish since jan. 7th. she is on her way out soon because she is laying groups of eggs everywhere. ive been getting so much different info from everyone that it possiable the eggs could be fertiale and also that they cant. ive did some research and it sayed the male puts a packet of sperm in. my first group of eggs was a good bit ago and now she had two more groups with a total of 30 eggs or so. Should i cut open one of the first laid eggs to see if anything is going on. I know if it is then im killing one but it would greatly help me prepare for them if i knew if im going to have cuttlefish babys soon. so should i cut one egg open to see if anything is happing?

02/12/2003, 03:06 PM	#28
johnrags1234 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Akron, Ohio 44333 Posts: 2,493	wow vegetell this is realy exciting! Be sure to keep us updated

02/24/2003, 02:18 AM	#29
wrasseman1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 4	hey sorry I did not get back earlier computer problems. Any way the reason I got my cuttle so cheap ($8.00) is that I work at my LFS and we trans-ship marines, so are prices are lower than if we went through a wholesaler. I still am no quite sure which spcies I have but do know that it seems very happy in its' 60 gallon tank eating all the ghost shrimp and guppies it wants. I would post pics but don't own a digital camera or scanner and have not figured out how to load pictures from a picture disc.( kinda lame huh) I will keep you all posted.

03/30/2003, 12:18 PM	#34
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	Without testing, it is difficult to tell whether an animal that you just purchased died of cyanide poisoning, some other poison, stress from improper handling, disease, old age or some other cause. On the other hand, I've worked in Indondesia, have several colleagues who do research there, and there is no question that some collectors will use anything they can to get animals out of the reef or substrate. Sometimes this has little effect such as when they use vineger to collect octopus or clove oil to take fish (although in my experience clove oil and octopus don't mix). However more often than not they are using bleach or cyanide to collect fish and the invertebrates such crustaceans and cephalopods are a bycatch. No collector is going to pass up some easy change so if the animals survive to the purchase point, they are sold. If they don't, they are tossed. From my experience with stomatopods, animals stress by improper shipping practices look to be in poor conditions from the point of arrival and don't recover. Animals that were exposed to cyandid act fine for a few days and then die. I have never purchased cuttles, so I don't know if they behave the same way, but I can tell you that blue-ringed octopus taken with cyanide do. Roy